Bran: Champion of "the Other"

[NitzanLeo]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you're ignoring the obvious evidence of the old Kings of Winter in the Stark crypts with their direwolves. Having a direwolf would be important to the Starks. I understand that Varamyr had a different familiar to begin with, but if I remember correctly, there's something that states how each warg has a different animal that they were able to connect with. I'd have to look to find it, but it really doesn't matter. I'm just going to leave it as we have differing opinions.

I knew there was another point I forgot to talk about... Anyway, we can only assume the Starks chose the direwolf as their standard because they all had direwolves to warg into. The other option is that the crypts show the Stark ancestors with direwolves just because it was their symbol, not because they actually had one, and I'm going with that. I think the part you're talking about with Varamyr is what Haggon told him about the varying difficulties of warging an animal. Here it is from the wiki:

• Dogs, are easy to bond with, because they are so much like humans and trusting, it becomes easier with time to warg into one.
  
• Wolves, are harder, One has to forge a lasting bound much like a marriage. A man might befriend a wolf, even break a wolf, but no man could truly tame a wolf.
  
• Birds, are very tempting, you may soon loose contact to the mundane things of earth, and want only to fly.
  
• Cats, are cruel and vain beasts and can’t be easily controlled, only forced.
  
• Elk and deer were prey, wear their skins too long and even the bravest man became a coward.
  

I don't remember anything else of the sort, that every warg has a different animal to warg into. Maybe I just can't recall, but if so, then it's probably like I said, just the first animal you have a real bond with.

Bran is told that he will not need a weirwood throne after his powers grow stronger. I did not mean to convey that Bran needed to sit a throne in order to have his visions. However, do you think BR is married to his tree? Is he mobile? Can he exist without the roots that bind him?

I don't think BR can leave the tree, unless he can actually move the tree itself with his super-awesome greenseeing powers. The roots go right through his body, and we know he's (IIRC) 125, or something like that, so the tree is pretty much keeping him alive. I think it all comes from the fact the weirwoods don't die natural deaths and never rot.

They certainly share a bond, but saying that direwolves have nothing to do with it and are not "special" couldn't be true, as they reflect the emotions and personalities of their Stark children "owners" and are part of them. As Black Crow said on this page, post # 104:

I know it's not you that said this, Little Wing, but I'll start by saying that I don't believe the Old Gods are actual gods, and we know this since Leaf pretty much said it, so I don't think the direwolves were gods sent. I think the reflection of the Stark children's personalities in their direwolves is because of the connection they have as warg-and-wargee. We already know that if a Skinchanger would warg into an elk or deer (as Haggon said), even the bravest would eventually become a coward, so we know there is some kind of emotion-exchanging. We also know that 'One has to forge a lasting bound much like a marriage' with wolves, which might be interchangeable with direwolves. We don't know if this means that any warg with a wolf/direwolf must only have that one familiar (I'm using familiar to mean a animal with a bond to its warg, as to put it apart from just a broken animal like Varamyr's), as in a monogamous relationship, or just a deeper relationship.

So those are my replies to everyone. Might not be true, but they're my opinions on this. Now, I shall take a nap.

[Little Wing]

Well, the thing that is special about the direwolves is that their return is a sign of the old powers (trees having eyes again) returning as well. In Bran's first chapter someone makes note that there hasn't been a direwolf south of the Wall in 200 years. But it seems that it's the Stark kids rather who are singled out as special by receiving their direwolves. And I find it interesting how Bran and Arya have warged other beings besides their familiars, except Jon who stayed "faithful" to Ghost. We're yet to see about Rickon, but I can imagine a kid such as himself having fun by warging unicorns...

[Melifeather]

It's a, what came first, the chicken or the egg, kind of deal with the Stark sigil, the direwolf. I think the reason why their sigil is the direwolf is because they warg them. Once someone is able to warg their creature, then they develop the ability to warg something else. It isn't something they can do from the get go.

[armidil0]

We certainly don't have enough information to make certain our accusations, but I would guess that families have certain animals they can warg. There was even a theory (I forgot if it was in heretic or not) that a lot of the families in the north with FM blood in them could warg their animal sigil. And that the power faded out into oblivion as the Starks did. It all goes back to the pact between the FM and the CotF. Each house or family that took part could have been given dominion over a species or type of animal. Theres a Crab for a house sigil in the North (don't remember the name), for them, Krakens for Greyjoy, maybe? Starks got the Direwolf and became the leaders of the North. Then there's Bear Island, ect. The North is very animal-centric when it comes to places and sigils.

It doesn't mean that they couldn't warg anymore animals than what is on their banner, just that those animals are the 'usual' or predetermined familiars for that family.

ETA: I feel like sigil is the wrong word? But it works I guess.

[evita mgfs]

We certainly don't have enough information to make certain our accusations, but I would guess that families have certain animals they can warg. There was even a theory (I forgot if it was in heretic or not) that a lot of the families in the north with FM blood in them could warg their animal sigil. And that the power faded out into oblivion as the Starks did. It all goes back to the pact between the FM and the CotF. Each house or family that took part could have been given dominion over a species or type of animal. Theres a Crab for a house sigil in the North (don't remember the name), for them, Krakens for Greyjoy, maybe? Starks got the Direwolf and became the leaders of the North. Then there's Bear Island, ect. The North is very animal-centric when it comes to places and sigils.

It doesn't mean that they couldn't warg anymore animals than what is on their banner, just that those animals are the 'usual' or predetermined familiars for that family.

ETA: I feel like sigil is the wrong word? But it works I guess.

armidil0: :agree: I speculated something very similar, and my source was a wonderful piece written by Kiss'dbyfire, but I cannot find it - and she is out of the country - and I am sure when she gets back, she will be able to offer even more great insight - for she knows a lot about the pact. :dunno:

[NitzanLeo]

We certainly don't have enough information to make certain our accusations, but I would guess that families have certain animals they can warg. There was even a theory (I forgot if it was in heretic or not) that a lot of the families in the north with FM blood in them could warg their animal sigil. And that the power faded out into oblivion as the Starks did. It all goes back to the pact between the FM and the CotF. Each house or family that took part could have been given dominion over a species or type of animal. Theres a Crab for a house sigil in the North (don't remember the name), for them, Krakens for Greyjoy, maybe? Starks got the Direwolf and became the leaders of the North. Then there's Bear Island, ect. The North is very animal-centric when it comes to places and sigils.

It doesn't mean that they couldn't warg anymore animals than what is on their banner, just that those animals are the 'usual' or predetermined familiars for that family.

ETA: I feel like sigil is the wrong word? But it works I guess.

That idea could get quite strange, armidil. The Boltons could warg into a flayed man, the Umbers into giants and the Manderlys into Mermen, not to mention the Flints. xD

Anyway, the thing with the direwolves can all just melt down if you think their appearance to the Stark children is coincidence or not. The first thing Martin wrote when he began the series is the Stark children's finding of the direwolves, so I wouldn't think he gave it much thought.

[Black Crow]

The theory on the Boltons was that they're not wargs and that what they were doing was saying:

"Up yours, we can skin-change too and we don't need magic to do it"

[Melifeather]

...and the Umber's giant, (unrelated to warging) was running away from an Umber. If I remember correctly.

The wildlings north of the Wall were descendents of the remaining 100 kingdoms that were in Westeros before the Wall was built. Warging and greenseeing is supposed to be quite rare, so perhaps only sigils with animals had a family member that could warg? I don't know, I'm just speculating here.

[armidil0]

I'm not an expert on that theory. I just read it somewhere and just remembered it now. But the Manderly's weren't originally from the north. They were from the reach. Got exiled, and found refuge with the Starks. So they weren't apart of the pact. The thing with the Umbers and Flints is a good point, but stuff happens, sigils can be changed, ect. Maybe they chose not to follow that pattern, or never got their familiar. Nobody knows, it's just a theory.

The theory on the Boltons was that they're not wargs and that what they were doing was saying:

"Up yours, we can skin-change too and we don't need magic to do it"

I do love this explanation. The first time I read it (long time ago) I fell in love and just went with it. It definitely paints the Boltons (of old) in a different light.

[Melifeather]

Again, regarding the Umbers...I think I remember someone posting something about the Children of the Forest that they felt sad about the giants, not just because they were dying out, but that even though they were a "bane", they still felt guilty about something, and the poster said it was because perhaps the Children took advantage of the giants because of their low intellect. Bran has been warging Hodor, and because he's still a child, he doesn't seem to feel bad that he is taking advantage of a mentally challenged individual. Perhaps that is also why the giant in the Umber's sigil is running away? Maybe the Umbers could warg giants and the giants were running away in fear?

[aryagonnakill]

We certainly don't have enough information to make certain our accusations, but I would guess that families have certain animals they can warg. There was even a theory (I forgot if it was in heretic or not) that a lot of the families in the north with FM blood in them could warg their animal sigil. And that the power faded out into oblivion as the Starks did. It all goes back to the pact between the FM and the CotF. Each house or family that took part could have been given dominion over a species or type of animal. Theres a Crab for a house sigil in the North (don't remember the name), for them, Krakens for Greyjoy, maybe? Starks got the Direwolf and became the leaders of the North. Then there's Bear Island, ect. The North is very animal-centric when it comes to places and sigils.

It doesn't mean that they couldn't warg anymore animals than what is on their banner, just that those animals are the 'usual' or predetermined familiars for that family.

ETA: I feel like sigil is the wrong word? But it works I guess.

We don't know all the sigils of the minor houses but your right many do favor animals. I notice that the Tallharts are a sentinel trees and that Hornwoods are moose, theres also unicorns, turtles, and another thing is that many of the houses we know have animal sigils are old houses. Most of the former kings, the baratheons, starks, and aryns. I believe the Lannisters took there power from the Casterlys at some point as Jaime mentions but I do believe there an ancient house.

[evita mgfs]

Just to add to these speculations, if I recall correctly what I read, the poster postulated that in the Pact, where the wisest gathered to hammer out a deal, the "warging" gift may have been some kind of bargaining chip - and certain "houses" may have lost or conveniently fogotten their "warging" gifts because they were retracted in the hammering out of the Pact; other houses for other reasons, namely the Starks, may have been one of these houses to forget their deep connection to the direwolves - and maybe this even contributed the the direwolves moving north beyond the Wall. When the wolves lost their patron hosts, they moved further away from men and their "teeth" weapons to seek comfort in a wintery environment in which they instinctivey thrive.

Sorry if I am not making any sense. But I think when Jojen tells Bran that the Neck remembers, as do the old gods and the CotF, the truth the First Men knew now long forgotten in Winterfell. I think part of that "truth" forgotten [which is now being relearned by Bran and his siblings] MAY BE that the Starks once, historically, "warged" their direwolves.

Some "imbalance" or "event" has aroused the magic throughout the land, and benefitting from this awakening power are the Stark instincts and gifts to warg their wolves - and who knows what other gifts they may manifest as the story progresses.

Remember, I am "just" speculating. :dunno:

[Black Wolf Smith]

Well, the thing that is special about the direwolves is that their return is a sign of the old powers (trees having eyes again) returning as well. In Bran's first chapter someone makes note that there hasn't been a direwolf south of the Wall in 200 years.¹ But it seems that it's the Stark kids rather who are singled out as special by receiving their direwolves. And I find it interesting how Bran and Arya have warged other beings besides their familiars, except Jon who stayed "faithful" to Ghost². We're yet to see about Rickon, but I can imagine a kid such as himself having fun by warging unicorns...

1Said another way, Since Alysanne flew to the Wall on a Dragon, there has been a direwolf south of it.

2. You forgot about Sansa, who in her own way seemed to influnce a dog, when Marillion tried to rape her.

[NitzanLeo]

1Said another way, Since Alysanne flew to the Wall on a Dragon, there has been a direwolf south of it.

2. You forgot about Sansa, who in her own way seemed to influnce a dog, when Marillion tried to rape her.

Can I get a quote on the second point? I do recall something of the like, but I don't have the digital version to go and check.

[Little Wing]

2. You forgot about Sansa, who in her own way seemed to influnce a dog, when Marillion tried to rape her.

I think the dog reacted, as most dogs would, to protect. Dogs react to raised voices alone, not to mention physical assault. I haven't interpreted the scene like her influencing the dog in any way...

[Black Maester Sam]

2. You forgot about Sansa, who in her own way seemed to influnce a dog, when Marillion tried to rape her.

It was Lothor Brune that protected her from Marillion.

Sansa has not shown any warging or wargdreaming in her POV, but she lost Lady before her siblings started warging, and had no pets since. She might have to start from scratch.

( The old guarddog ) He was too sick and toothless to walk guard with Bryen anymore, and mostly all he did was sleep, but when she patted him he whined and licked her hand, and after that they were fast friends.

She seems to have the gift and dogs are the easiest to warg.

I don't remember many animals in the Eyrie, maybe she has more potential to develop her warging, now that she is at the Gates of the Moon.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Can I get a quote on the second point? I do recall something of the like, but I don't have the digital version to go and check.

Its not my theory, so I can only try to say it right. (I stole if from some other thread) and its not a heresy theory.

Sansa powers seem different from the other children. They all seem to have more direct control over their wolves. Jon and Bran(and probley Rob and Rickon) seemed to control them with words, and then later with thoughts. Arya even seemed to do this as well, even when she was in Esso, she had wolf dreams.

Sansa even at the start, seemed different. Lady seemed to act off Sansa emotions rather then commands. While doing knitting, which Sansa enjoyed it, Lady was calm, relaxed. Arya did not like it and was fidgitting, and Nym wouldn't sit still, both wolves were put outside, and while Nym ran off, Lady waited for Sansa.

When Sansa was on the road to KL and the Hound and Ser Payne came up and scared Sansa, Lady seemed like she was about to attack. The same is true of the sick, toothless old dog that "mostly sleep". When She got scared it growled and barked at Marillion. Brune came because he heard the dog.

Maybe it is BS, but it has a ring of truth, and I like it.

[NitzanLeo]

I can really see Sansa starting to connect to some animal, and perhaps warg a little into it, but she'll be scared of it, and it won't play a big role in her arc. Her arc is more political.

[Melifeather]

Its not my theory, so I can only try to say it right. (I stole if from some other thread) and its not a heresy theory.

Sansa powers seem different from the other children. They all seem to have more direct control over their wolves. Jon and Bran(and probley Rob and Rickon) seemed to control them with words, and then later with thoughts. Arya even seemed to do this as well, even when she was in Esso, she had wolf dreams.

Sansa even at the start, seemed different. Lady seemed to act off Sansa emotions rather then commands. While doing knitting, which Sansa enjoyed it, Lady was calm, relaxed. Arya did not like it and was fidgitting, and Nym wouldn't sit still, both wolves were put outside, and while Nym ran off, Lady waited for Sansa.

When Sansa was on the road to KL and the Hound and Ser Payne came up and scared Sansa, Lady seemed like she was about to attack. The same is true of the sick, toothless old dog that "mostly sleep". When She got scared it growled and barked at Marillion. Brune came because he heard the dog.

Maybe it is BS, but it has a ring of truth, and I like it.

I thought it was evident that all the direwolves reflected their owner's personalities?

[NitzanLeo]

I think it's just warging powers, not anything special. All the direwolves--and I believe that all warged animals/familiars too--can feel their owners emotions. Broken animals like Varamyr's probably don't give a shit, but familiars like the direwolves will always act upon it.