Why did Illyrio give Dany the eggs?

[Danelle]

Well, since these "helpers" booted Dany and Viserys as soon as Darry was dead, they wen't very loyal. And from the scarce memory Dany has of Braavos, she was probably about six when that happened. There can't be much teaching done before six.

Afterward, they sometimes spend time with wealthy people, but not in Braavos anymore. Some of them may have provided a teacher, but I doubt many did. Viserys didn't get a master-of-arms, that's sure.

Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised that Dany can read at all.

Dany had what is possibly the worst childhood in asoiaf. She was born the moment the Targaryen fleet sank, then the guards at Dragonstone decided to give the kids to Stannis but luckily Ser Willem took them and fled to Essos. But he died when she was six, and his servants forced the children out of the house. Viserys had to sell Rhaella's crown in order to support Dany and meanwhile he tried to raise an army to retake Westeros. At some point, Dany thinks that Viserys was not only an older brother to her, but he taught her history, the faith, everything about Westeros and I think that he taught her how to read and write. Her other teachers were Irri. Jhiqui and Doreah. This is why Dany can be easily influenced by people like the Green Grace and Mirri. She has the need of someone, older than her to advise her.

[boojam]

Dany had what is possibly the worst childhood in asoiaf. She was born the moment the Targaryen fleet sank, then the guards at Dragonstone decided to give the kids to Stannis but luckily Ser Willem took them and fled to Essos. But he died when she was six, and his servants forced the children out of the house. Viserys had to sell Rhaella's crown in order to support Dany and meanwhile he tried to raise an army to retake Westeros. At some point, Dany thinks that Viserys was not only an older brother to her, but he taught her history, the faith, everything about Westeros and I think that he taught her how to read and write. Her other teachers were Irri. Jhiqui and Doreah. This is why Dany can be easily influenced by people like the Green Grace and Mirri. She has the need of someone, older than her to advise her.

We really don't have any details as to who Ser Darry's ally was in Braavos. He did not seem to have a place of his own, but was , seemingly, good friends with a Braavosi who was his friend. But I guess not good enough a friend to keep the Braavosi housekeepers from throwing out Dany and Viserys. But who were the mysterious Darry helpers on Dragonstone who helped him move them to Braavos. Seems impossible that a royal families’ court or children minders would after hundreds of years turn traitor (there were probably ,in fact Targ court minders for 1000's of years since we know House Targaryen came from Valyria. )

I can't see all of them abandoning the children. (The Braavosi householders , yes, because the Braavosi never liked Valyria. Tho after the Doom I swear either on page or off page George said there were Valyrian refugees in Braavos.

It’s a nit, but I like obscure mysteries to try and puzzle out.

(Plus GRRM puts this danged Red Door in now and then which is a connection to Braavos.)

[Quentyn Baratheon]

We really don't have any details as to who Ser Darry's ally was in Braavos. He did not seem to have a place of his own, but was , seemingly, good friends with a Braavosi who was his friend. But I guess not good enough a friend to keep the Braavosi housekeepers from throwing out Dany and Viserys. But who were the mysterious Darry helpers on Dragonstone who helped him move them to Braavos. Seems impossible that a royal families’ court or children minders would after hundreds of years turn traitor (there were probably ,in fact Targ court minders for 1000's of years since we know House Targaryen came from Valyria. )

I can't see all of them abandoning the children. (The Braavosi householders , yes, because the Braavosi never liked Valyria. Tho after the Doom I swear either on page or off page George said there were Valyrian refugees in Braavos.

It’s a nit, but I like obscure mysteries to try and puzzle out.

(Plus GRRM puts this danged Red Door in now and then which is a connection to Braavos.)

Right hand allies they might be, that also means they were the first in line when things get awry with all those bad/mad Targ kings. They might were fed up. Add to that, Rhaegar was dead, Elia and her children too, Storm's End siege relieved (no help from Tyrells anymore) and Robert sitting on the Iron Throne.

And whith superstitious middleaged minds, their fleet were smashed, at their own harbor, by a storm. They might have seen it as an omen or something.

[boojam]

Right hand allies they might be, that also means they were the first in line when things get awry with all those bad/mad Targ kings. They might were fed up. Add to that, Rhaegar was dead, Elia and her children too, Storm's End siege relieved (no help from Tyrells anymore) and Robert sitting on the Iron Throne.

And whith superstitious middleaged minds, their fleet were smashed, at their own harbor, by a storm. They might have seen it as an omen or something.

Non Targaryen loyalists and liegemen are one thing. But the household Targ/Valyrians would be something totally different.

House Targaryen , when it moved (did it all move?) from Valyria to Dragon Stone could not have been just the royals. Who were the lessor Targaryens , the 'court'? Well , GRRM, never tells us. Yeah I know it's a detail and George writes so much anyway it's got to have gotten lost.

And it could not have been slaves since , for reasons GRRM has never explained, House Targaryen was abolitionist or at least anti-slavery. (Which may have been the reason House Targaryen had to move from Valyria?) Is this the reason Dany is also abolitionist?

Makes one wonder what Braavos thought of the Targaryen's , since the founders of Braavos were escaping Valyrian slavery. And the Targs were not slavers.

So who were the Valyrian Plebeians?

As housekeepers for for the Valyrian Patricians it would not have been a matter of loyalty it would have been a matter of blood.

They would have been thrown out with Viserys and Dany.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

Non Targaryen loyalists and liegemen are one thing. But the household Targ/Valyrians would be something totally different.

House Targaryen , when it moved (did it all move?) from Valyria to Dragon stone could not have been just the royals. Who were the lessor Targaryens , the 'court'? Well , GRRM, never tells us. Yeah I know it's a detail and George writes so much anyway it's got to have gotten lost.

And it could not have been slaves since , for reasons GRRM has never explained, House Targaryen was abolitionist or at least anti-slavery. (Which may have been the reason House Targaryen had to move from Valyria?) Is this the reason Dany is also abolitionist?

Makes one wonder what Braavos thought of the Targaryen's , since the founders of Braavos were escaping Valyrian slavery. And the Targs were not slavers.

So who were the Valyrian Plebeians?

As housekeepers for for the Valyrian Patricians it would not have been a matter of loyalty it would have been a matter of blood.

Where is this come from exactly?

And Celtigars are strogly implied to have been in Claw Isle before the Targs came to Dragonstone (12 years before the Doom by the way), given their skirmished for control over Cracklaw Point.

[boojam]

Where is this come from exactly?

And Celtigars are strogly implied to have been in Claw Isle before the Targs came to Dragonstone (12 years before the Doom by the way), given their skirmished for control over Cracklaw Point.

12 years before the DOOM!?

"A century or so before the Doom of Valyria, House Targaryen, a noble Valyrian house, took possession of the island" - A Game of Thrones, Chapter 47

[Quentyn Baratheon]

12 years before the DOOM!?

"A century or so before the Doom of Valyria, House Targaryen, a noble Valyrian house, took possession of the island" - A Game of Thrones, Chapter 47

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6592/

"In Valyria, there were two score rival houses that contested for power. House Targaryen, however, was not considered a powerful house. Daenerys the Dreamer, the daughter of the head of House Targaryen, foresaw the Doom and convinced her father to leave Valyria. Her father, Aenar, took his family to Dragonstone along with 5 dragons. In Valyria, this was seen as weakness. The Doom happened 12 years after Aenar left for Dragonstone."

[Danelle]

.

House Targaryen , when it moved (did it all move?) from Valyria to Dragon Stone could not have been just the royals. Who were the lessor Targaryens , the 'court'? Well , GRRM, never tells us. Yeah I know it's a detail and George writes so much anyway it's got to have gotten lost.

And it could not have been slaves since , for reasons GRRM has never explained, House Targaryen was abolitionist or at least anti-slavery. (Which may have been the reason House Targaryen had to move from Valyria?) Is this the reason Dany is also abolitionist?

Ι think that one of Dany's ancestors was a girl, called Daenys the Dreamer. She had prophetic dreams and persuaded her family to leave Valyria 12 years before the Doom. I think that they went to Dragonstone first and then Aegon contemplated in invading Westeros or Essos and chose Westeros. The only family that is also from Valyria and are related to the Targaryens are the Velaryons. Aegon the Conqueror's mother was a Velaryon. I don't think that Dany's feelings about slavery have anything to do with her House. Slavery was abolished in Westeros long before the Targaryens came. Dany does not approove of slavery for the following reasons:

• Basically Viserys and Illyrio sold her to Drogo
  
• Being against slavery makes her more westerosi, a reminder that she is in fact from Westeros, a place where slavery is not allowed
  

[LadyMary]

I think it was just a lavish and meaningful (to a Targaryen princess) but functionless wedding present. I don't think anyone though Daenerys would hatch petrified eggs into living dragons. Illyrio just gave her objects that were priceless but really didn't serve any purpose otherwise. Maybe he felt a little bit sorry for her too, because she was under Viserys' thumb, being sold to a barbarian at the age of 13 and he didn't expect her to live long among the Dothraki.

I think he expected Khal Drogo to kill the odious Viserys given V's assholishness, but if Viserys had stayed in Pentos, I think he would have taken ill and died from some "mysterious" ailment or died in an "accident", while Daenerys was off in the great Grass Sea being Khalissi. Aegon's claim would be stronger than hers anyway if Daenerys survived and came back to civilization in time to find out about him. In any case, I think Illyrio thought Viserys was an obstacle to be disposed of, but Daenerys could be useful.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

I think he expected Khal Drogo to kill the odious Viserys given V's assholishness, but if Viserys had stayed in Pentos, I think he would have taken ill and died from some "mysterious" ailment or died in an "accident", while Daenerys was off in the great Grass Sea being Khalissi. Aegon's claim would be stronger than hers anyway if Daenerys survived and came back to civilization in time to find out about him. In any case, I think Illyrio thought Viserys was an obstacle to be disposed of, but Daenerys could be useful.

Viserys invading with a dothraki army provided by his sister's sugar walls is perfect scapegoat. Especially when you provide RHAEGAR's son, to counter the Mad King's children doing. So no, the plan was for Viserys to stay in Pentos. It's Dany the disposable pawn at the time, not Viserys.

In the end, Illyrio let him go:

1. the guy is a nut job despised and laughed about by everybody, good riddance

2. V&I can adjust their plan on the fly (IE not needing dothraki to disturb the Realm, Cersei handed it to Varys)

[TheZone]

Well, since these "helpers" booted Dany and Viserys as soon as Darry was dead, they wen't very loyal. And from the scarce memory Dany has of Braavos, she was probably about six when that happened. There can't be much teaching done before six.

Afterward, they sometimes spend time with wealthy people, but not in Braavos anymore. Some of them may have provided a teacher, but I doubt many did. Viserys didn't get a master-of-arms, that's sure.

Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised that Dany can read at all.

Since Dany was about six when they left the Darrys house, Viserys would have been 14 and quite able to teach her math,english,valyrian,reading and writing. btw what six year old does not know how to read?

[boojam]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6592/

"In Valyria, there were two score rival houses that contested for power. House Targaryen, however, was not considered a powerful house. Daenerys the Dreamer, the daughter of the head of House Targaryen, foresaw the Doom and convinced her father to leave Valyria. Her father, Aenar, took his family to Dragonstone along with 5 dragons. In Valyria, this was seen as weakness. The Doom happened 12 years after Aenar left for Dragonstone."

Then there is a conflict between what Geroge said and what George wrote!

George has to many things to juggle!

Or is the Wiki wrong?

"House Targaryen is a noble family of Valyrian descent that escaped the Doom. They lived for centuries on the island of Dragonstone until Aegon Targaryen and his sisters rode their dragons to the conquest of the Seven Kingdoms. House Targaryen ruled as the Kings of Westeros for nearly 300 years, until ousted in the War of the Usurper. Their seats were the capitol city of King's Landing and the island castle of Dragonstone." -- A Game of Thrones, Chapter 23, Daenerys.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

Then there is a conflict between what Geroge said and what George wrote!

George has to many things to juggle!

Or is the Wiki wrong?

"House Targaryen is a noble family of Valyrian descent that escaped the Doom. They lived for centuries on the island of Dragonstone until Aegon Targaryen and his sisters rode their dragons to the conquest of the Seven Kingdoms. House Targaryen ruled as the Kings of Westeros for nearly 300 years, until ousted in the War of the Usurper. Their seats were the capitol city of King's Landing and the island castle of Dragonstone." -- A Game of Thrones, Chapter 23, Daenerys.

You quote Dany in AGOT, and even in ADWD she would have been wrong about her own family so no help here. Marwyn might put some weight in her head (or is it too late already?).

Also, useful to keep in mind dynasty PR is in full force with the targs. If they want to make you believe they settled in Dragonstone from the start, or their dragons are invincible weapons, they'll make do, by whatever means possible.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Since Dany was about six when they left the Darrys house, Viserys would have been 14 and quite able to teach her math,english,valyrian,reading and writing. btw what six year old does not know how to read?

That's probably how she learned what she did. But hardly a teenager makes a good teacher, and Viserys lacked a proper education himself. After he was eight, no more maesters or teachers for him.

I couldn't read at six. Well, not properly at least. I could write my first name and numbers, but not the entire alphabet. School in Germany starts age 6 :cool4:

Then there is a conflict between what Geroge said and what George wrote!

George has to many things to juggle!

Or is the Wiki wrong?

"House Targaryen is a noble family of Valyrian descent that escaped the Doom. They lived for centuries on the island of Dragonstone until Aegon Targaryen and his sisters rode their dragons to the conquest of the Seven Kingdoms. House Targaryen ruled as the Kings of Westeros for nearly 300 years, until ousted in the War of the Usurper. Their seats were the capitol city of King's Landing and the island castle of Dragonstone." -- A Game of Thrones, Chapter 23, Daenerys.

That's Dany. The girl that doesn't recognize the "princesses in the tower" as her real great-great-great-greatmother and -aunts instead of a fictional tale. She barely knows anything about history or Westeros. The unreliable narrator strikes again.

[Captain Victarion Greyjoy]

I think the question is "Why trow an egg into the ocean ?" if they are valorous as they say they are.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

I think the question is "Why trow an egg into the ocean ?" if they are valorous as they say they are.

Note that Euron said that to Victarion and not to someone like The Reader.

[TheZone]

That's probably how she learned what she did. But hardly a teenager makes a good teacher, and Viserys lacked a proper education himself. After he was eight, no more maesters or teachers for him.

I couldn't read at six. Well, not properly at least. I could write my first name and numbers, but not the entire alphabet. School in Germany starts age 6 :cool4:

He probably had people in Bravvos teaching him, there was a whole staff there. HI neibhoor, well I dont live in Poland anymore but, when we were in kindergarden we had to be able to read on a limited level at least , then in 1 st grade we had to be able to read tottaly. I was 5 when I learned.

[GallowsKnight]

Dany had what is possibly the worst childhood in asoiaf.

I disagree. From a noble perspective it's bad, but she and Viserys still seemed to live in relative comfort and ease during their exile.

Davos likely had a worse childhood than her as an orphan from the flea bottom. There are thousands if not millions of smallfolk who've had worse childhoods than her.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I disagree. From a noble perspective it's bad, but she and Viserys still seemed to live in relative comfort and ease during their exile.

Davos likely had a worse childhood than her as an orphan from the flea bottom. There are thousands if not millions of smallfolk who've had worse childhoods than her.

Most smallfolk don't live in constant dread of being assassinated. I wouldn't call it comfortable.

[LadyMary]

Viserys invading with a dothraki army provided by his sister's sugar walls is perfect scapegoat. Especially when you provide RHAEGAR's son, to counter the Mad King's children doing. So no, the plan was for Viserys to stay in Pentos. It's Dany the disposable pawn at the time, not Viserys.

In the end, Illyrio let him go:

1. the guy is a nut job despised and laughed about by everybody, good riddance

2. V&I can adjust their plan on the fly (IE not needing dothraki to disturb the Realm, Cersei handed it to Varys)

Illyrio tells Tyrion he considered marrying Daenerys and doing away with Viserys but she was too sad or cold - and he had special contempt for Viserys, and put a gaurd on the door to keep Viserys from sneaking into Daenerys bedroom. If Viserys had remained in Pentos I think Illyrio would have killed him, but instead, Khal Drogo ended up doing the deed. That paved the way for Aegon to be the last Targaryen.

Since "Aegon" expected to marry Daenerys to cement his claim for skeptical Westerosi Lords, I can't help thinking she was somehow in Illyrio's plans until Viserys arranged to sell her to Drogo in return for an army. At that point, Illyrio cut Viserys and Daenerys out of his plans and wrote them off for dead, but I do think Illyrio had plans for Daenerys before all that went down.