Why did Illyrio give Dany the eggs?

[bent branch]

Because Dany's right about everything ever?

There is no indication — none, anywhere — that Illyrio and/or Varys actually expected the eggs to hatch.

The question isn't whether you or I believe Dany is right about everything. The question is whether GRRM intended this short exchange to be revealing of anything. You don't think so. I do. I think this exchange is the indication that Illyrio and/or Varys hoped that Dany would hatch the eggs.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The question isn't whether you or I believe Dany is right about everything. The question is whether GRRM intended this short exchange to be revealing of anything. You don't think so. I do. I think this exchange is the indication that Illyrio and/or Varys hoped that Dany would hatch the eggs.

My point was, Dany thinking that doesn't make it true. She also thinks she's immune to fire when her hands are burned; she is not reliable. It's easy to imply "Oh yeah they gave them to me to hatch, obviously" when you're about to hatch them. In that scenario, it's easy for Dany to attribute a motive — that Illyrio gave her the eggs thinking she'd hatch them — that isn't there, but if you look at, say, Illyrio's exchanges with Tyrion, there's nothing at all suggesting that they ever expected her to hatch the eggs.

[Guardian of the Lhazareen]

He didn't want to put all his eggs in one basket so to speak, some to dany and some to aegon, kinda like a contingeny plan

[Hear Us Roar]

At the time, it were only expensive stones. And probably not the only ones in Illyrio's possession.

[bent branch]

My point was, Dany thinking that doesn't make it true. She also thinks she's immune to fire when her hands are burned; she is not reliable. It's easy to imply "Oh yeah they gave them to me to hatch, obviously" when you're about to hatch them. In that scenario, it's easy for Dany to attribute a motive — that Illyrio gave her the eggs thinking she'd hatch them — that isn't there, but if you look at, say, Illyrio's exchanges with Tyrion, there's nothing at all suggesting that they ever expected her to hatch the eggs.

Actually, I understood your point. My point is that I believe this is author's voice telling us that the dragon eggs were given to Dany with a purpose and that purpose was not to sell them. I really don't know what else to say. I understand that this view of what happened regarding the dragon eggs is not popular, but that is the way I read the story.

[boojam]

Quick question: How long were Viserys and Dany rolling with Illyrio before the marriage to Khal Drogo?

I don't think George ever tells us.

Viserys and Dany , in the books, are said to wander about after their stay in Braavos.

We really never find out exactly how long Ser Willem Darry lived while in refuge in Braavos.

We also never find out what the heck happened to the Targaryen retainers who would have been caretakers for Viserys and Dany , they are just never mentioned.

George has Dany often expressing her girl hood life at the house with the 'Red Door' in the novels.

The show has not brought this up once.

Given the implied complexity of the Illyrio-Varys 'conspiracy' seems they would have been with Illyrio for some time , seemingly implied in the show, tho not in the books.

It's one of 10,000 plot details GRRM has never revealed or maybe has no interest in.

[Lykos]

I believe the eggs were given to Dany in the hope she would hatch them. There is this in Dany's last POV in AGOT:

The words are from Dany's mouth, but GRRM put them there.

The eggs are the connection to her family, prove to Dany as well as Drogo of her claim. Just as she constantly uses "I´m the blood of the Dragon" whenever her confidence is shaken.

1. Prove to Drogo that she was who they claimed she was (he paid a lot of money to marry her).

<snip>

Here are some quotes that made me wonder wether my idea that Mirri Maz Duur consciously manouvered Dany into hatching the eggs has some merit after all.

After Dany´s miscarriage in Game, just before she gets obsessed with the dragon eggs we have the following scene.

And then Mirri Maz Duur was there, the maegi, tipping a cup against her lips. She tasted sour milk, and something else, something thick and bitter.

And in Dany´s last chapter before she has the dreams about Viserys,

Just past midday she came upon a bush growing by the stream, its twisted limbs covered with hard green berries. Dany squinted at them suspiciously, then plucked one from a branch and nibbled at it. Its flesh was tart and chewy, with a bitter aftertaste that seemed familiar to her. “In the khalasar, they used berries like these to flavor roasts,” she decided.

that later culminated in waking visions / hallucinations.

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind . Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.

“Fire and Blood,” Daenerys told the swaying grass.

I think Dany OD´d on the same substance, that Mirri usedto influence her.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Actually, I understood your point. My point is that I believe this is author's voice telling us that the dragon eggs were given to Dany with a purpose and that purpose was not to sell them. I really don't know what else to say. I understand that this view of what happened regarding the dragon eggs is not popular, but that is the way I read the story.

Thematically, sure, she was "meant" to hatch them. In the grand scheme of things, GRRM gave her the eggs with the intent that she'd hatch them. But that is NOT the same thing as Illyrio and Varys giving her the eggs expecting her to hatch them or knowing she'd hatch them. I think you're confusing one for the other.

[sarah.jenice]

I agree with everyone who just said they were meant to be pretty presents and to help bolster Dany's appearance as Drogo's "Dragon Queen."

For Aegon, they would have just been locked away in a chest. A boy isn't going to travel around with his eggs placed on a table to look at like Dany did especially without handmaidens to set them up. And we know what Dany had to go through to get them to hatch and Aegon never would have been in that situation to make it happen.

[Saint Arya]

I highly doubt he gave them to Dany for any other reason other than that she's a Targaryen and it's an appropriately extravagant gift.

There isn't a precedent for petrified eggs reawakening by Targaryen influence, is there?

[boojam]

Thematically, sure, she was "meant" to hatch them. In the grand scheme of things, GRRM gave her the eggs with the intent that she'd hatch them. But that is NOT the same thing as Illyrio and Varys giving her the eggs expecting her to hatch them or knowing she'd hatch them. I think you're confusing one for the other.

So you actually know what the Illlyro-Varys 'conspiriicty' is?

The weird thing here is , for some reason unknown to us but maybe known to GRRM is both Illlyro and Varys are seemingly primve movers in the fates of Daenerys Targaryen and Aegon Targaryen to ends I cannot figure out.

Dany has the dragons by, for right now, what seems to be colossal fluke.

Aegon (if it is Aegon!) is about to move on to Westeros.

While, seemingly, the Wall is about to be breached by the Others , to what end&hellip;god only knows.

GRRM is demented , this is the most screwball fantasy I have ever read, why I love it so much!

[Lady of Long Lake]

The eggs could have been a "Last Supper" kind of gift. Illyrio expected Dany to die after her wedding and the eggs might have appeased his guilty conscience. All she was was a diversion for Robert to focus on and the eggs might have given her more credence. He just gave her a treasure before he sent her off to her to die.

[The Idiots Lantern]

I don't think Illyrio thought too seriously about Dany. She is just a girl after all, and an uneducated one at that. Maybe he arranged the marriage as a way of getting rid of her and Viserys while remaining "loyal." He had to have known Viserys and the Dothraki were probably going to mix like oil and water, but Dany would be Khaleesi and might be ok. Or might not. It probably didn't make too big of a difference to him.

Illyrio had Aegon. He didn't need Daenerys and Viserys. In fact they might have interfered with Aemon's claim. Sending them off to unknown fate in the Dothraki Sea seems like as good a way as any to be rid of them and ensure Aemon's unopposed in his bid for the throne.

As for the eggs, well, Aegon had no use for them. They were just pretty rocks, after all. But girls like pretty things, even when they are useless. Give them to the girl. Maybe make her happy before she disappears forever.

When Dany said, "They were not given to me to sell" she wasn't talking about Illyrio's intent, I think she was speaking more of cosmic intent. Fate, and the like.

[boojam]

I don't think Illyrio thought too seriously about Dany. She is just a girl after all, and an uneducated one at that. Maybe he arranged the marriage as a way of getting rid of her and Viserys while remaining "loyal." He had to have known Viserys and the Dothraki were probably going to mix like oil and water, but Dany would be Khaleesi and might be ok. Or might not. It probably didn't make too big of a difference to him.

Illyrio had Aegon. He didn't need Daenerys and Viserys. In fact they might have interfered with Aemon's claim. Sending them off to unknown fate in the Dothraki Sea seems like as good a way as any to be rid of them and ensure Aemon's unopposed in his bid for the throne.

As for the eggs, well, Aegon had no use for them. They were just pretty rocks, after all. But girls like pretty things, even when they are useless. Give them to the girl. Maybe make her happy before she disappears forever.

When Dany said, "They were not given to me to sell" she wasn't talking about Illyrio's intent, I think she was speaking more of cosmic intent. Fate, and the like.

How do we know Dany is uneducated?

I am not talking 'worldly ways' .

Viserys didn't seem much interested in her intellect... but we have zero information about her schooling on Braavos. We are told that Willem Darry bough several several Targaryen retainers with him to Braavos, hell some of them could have been Targaryens. (What happened to those when Darry died George has nary a word to say seems it the Braavosi house holders who drove Dany and Viserys out, but why or where the Targaryen loyalists went George never says, just seems crazy they would not have looked out for those siblings.)

We don't know but for some mysterious reason Illyrio and Varys actually seem to be looking to use the remaining Targs for some purpose. So I don't think they favor Aegon or Dany.

What their use is to them is an enigma right now.

[The Idiots Lantern]

How do we know Dany is uneducated?

We don't. I infer it because of the nomadic life she and her brother had to live, and the way Viserys was mother, father, brother and teacher to her. Any other tudors or teachers are never mentioned. I have to think that any formal schooling she had, she got from Viserys, recalling the way the castle maesters or his mother would teach him his letters and numbers and history.

[Stannis ftw]

Illyrio had Aegon. He didn't need Daenerys and Viserys. In fact they might have interfered with Aemon's claim. Sending them off to unknown fate in the Dothraki Sea seems like as good a way as any to be rid of them and ensure Aemon's unopposed in his bid for the throne.

Well, this would be really idiotic way to do it - unpredictable and unproductive. Nobody knows how things might go, and Illy cannot really control the Dothraki. Serve their heads to king Bob - that would have been both predictable (surely no interfering with Aemon´s claim) and productive (collect the bounty). Illy´s actions - in retrospective, Aegon-wise - with Viserys and Dany do not really make sansa.

As for the eggs, well, Aegon had no use for them. They were just pretty rocks, after all. But girls like pretty things, even when they are useless. Give them to the girl. Maybe make her happy before she disappears forever.

Like said before, basically huge "diamonds" with huge monetary value can harldy be described as useless. Money is power at that time, as it is in our time. The point is not that Illy has so much more money and he doesnt care. The point is that whoever has the eggs, has huge wealth as is.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Well, this would be really idiotic way to do it - unpredictable and unproductive. Nobody knows how things might go, and Illy cannot really control the Dothraki. Serve their heads to king Bob - that would have been both predictable (surely no interfering with Aemon´s claim) and productive (collect the bounty). Illy´s actions - in retrospective, Aegon-wise - with Viserys and Dany do not really make sansa.

I agree....unless, perhaps, Illyrio wants to avoid any kind of interaction with King Bob. Maybe he's afraid dealing with him to hand over the last Targaryan children runs some risk of revealing Aegon too soon. Or he knows there's a chance Aegon might be revealed as a fake and so having Daenerys and Viserys alive could come in useful. I don't know. Like you said, make no sansa.

Like said before, basically huge "diamonds" with huge monetary value can harldy be described as useless. Money is power at that time, as it is in our time. The point is not that Illy has so much more money and he doesnt care. The point is that whoever has the eggs, has huge wealth as is.

True, but you wouldn't give a diamond to a strapping young son on the way off to college or the like. You'd give him an expensive suit or fancy watch with diamonds in it, but not a diamond necklace.

And Dragon Eggs are even less useful then a necklace because you cannot wear them. They're expensive paperweights, at best.

Maybe (and I just made this up completely in my head) Illyrio showed them to Aegon a long time ago, but the kid could not have been any less interested. "Blood of the dragon" or no, he just could not care less about these rocks that sat there and did nothing all day. He forgot about them and didn't notice when Illyrio removed them from wherever they were kept. Maybe Illyrio gave them to Dany just to see the look on her face. Funny girl, it's like she thinks "blood of the dragon" actually means something in this world....

[boojam]

We don't. I infer it because of the nomadic life she and her brother had to live, and the way Viserys was mother, father, brother and teacher to her. Any other tudors or teachers are never mentioned. I have to think that any formal schooling she had, she got from Viserys, recalling the way the castle maesters or his mother would teach him his letters and numbers and history.

The show kind of muddies the waters since Dany (for legal reasons) is 'aged up' (like many others) we get the impression that she lived on Braavos longer than in the novels, tho I don't think Geroge gives us that number either.

Not in the books, but GRRM does say elsewhere that Darry had a company of helpers to move Dany and Viserys to Braavos , we don't know who these Targ loyalists were. My inference is there would be a teacher among them.

Braavos is an enigma itself, founded to escape the thumb of Valyria , it apparently became refuge for a small number of Valyrian refugess, could they have been of help to the surviving Targs?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The show kind of muddies the waters since Dany (for legal reasons) is 'aged up' (like many others) we get the impression that she lived on Braavos longer than in the novels, tho I don't think Geroge gives us that number either.

Not in the books, but GRRM does say elsewhere that Darry had a company of helpers to move Dany and Viserys to Braavos , we don't know who these Targ loyalists were. My inference is there would be a teacher among them.

Braavos is an enigma itself, founded to escape the thumb of Valyria , it apparently became refuge for a small number of Valyrian refugess, could they have been of help to the surviving Targs?

Well, since these "helpers" booted Dany and Viserys as soon as Darry was dead, they wen't very loyal. And from the scarce memory Dany has of Braavos, she was probably about six when that happened. There can't be much teaching done before six.

Afterward, they sometimes spend time with wealthy people, but not in Braavos anymore. Some of them may have provided a teacher, but I doubt many did. Viserys didn't get a master-of-arms, that's sure.

Honestly, I'm somewhat surprised that Dany can read at all.

[GallowsKnight]

I don't think Illyrio thought too seriously about Dany. She is just a girl after all, and an uneducated one at that. Maybe he arranged the marriage as a way of getting rid of her and Viserys while remaining "loyal." He had to have known Viserys and the Dothraki were probably going to mix like oil and water, but Dany would be Khaleesi and might be ok. Or might not. It probably didn't make too big of a difference to him.

Illyrion and Jorah both encourage Viserys to stay in Pentos not travel with the Dothraki.

Illyrio had Aegon. He didn't need Daenerys and Viserys. In fact they might have interfered with Aemon's claim. Sending them off to unknown fate in the Dothraki Sea seems like as good a way as any to be rid of them and ensure Aemon's unopposed in his bid for the throne.

Daenerys and Viserys are incredibly valuable because they give Aegon legitimacy. Fake or real people are going to be swayed if you're accompanied and acknowledged by known Targaryan royalty.

But they're still expendable. That's how Varys and Illyrio play.

Daenarys was a risk, but it had benefitis, in the short term it made Illyrio richer in cash assets and drew Robert Baratheon attention. If he's focused on her he's less likely to go digging for rumours of a Tyroshi father and son combo on a boat. If it paid out in the longterm it gained Dothraki to support the Golden Companies invasion.

Viserys was unstable. If they'd kept him in Pentos they may have worked to make him more malleable. But sending him off with the Dothraki is still a win-win. He dies and an unstable element is removed. More attention away from Aegon, If he'd survived the Dothraki he might have become a stronger leader and better man. Someone who might accept being the Royal-heir, prince of Dragonstone and married to Arriane of Dorne.