Coldhands is The Night's King

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Now that we have "seen" the Night's King called out on HBO's Game of Thrones synopsis, does the fact that his presence is now confirmed among the Others help prove/disprove any of this theory?

Disprove I would think. Though that depends on whether the hbo guide was an unintended spoiler or a mistake.

[grumdin]

Disprove I would think. Though that depends on whether the hbo guide was an unintended spoiler or a mistake.

Yeah and the fact the WW who transformed the baby was wearing a 'crown' of sorts. Short of hitting us over the head with the symbolism what else do we need? The spoiler in the synopsis is only a confirmation of the blindingly obvious.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Yeah and the fact the WW who transformed the baby was wearing a 'crown' of sorts. Short of hitting us over the head with the symbolism what else do we need? The spoiler in the synopsis is only a confirmation of the blindingly obvious.

That and the symbolism of there being 13 Others in that scene.

[grumdin]

I always wondered how the hell the Nights King got the female other across the wall since cold hands got cross it and Mel says how the Wall how has magical defenses

Well the answer is very simple, the Wall is not there for the purpose of keeping out the Others. If it was then the NQ wouldn't have been able to pass, accompanied by a brother of the NW or no.

[AlienTwo]

That and the symbolism of there being 13 Others in that scene.

Forgive me, I'm just getting into these forums and digging deeper into the readings, but what is the significance of the 13 Others? Is it because the Night's King was (by some accounts) the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Forgive me, I'm just getting into these forums and digging deeper into the readings, but what is the significance of the 13 Others? Is it because the Night's King was (by some accounts) the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch?

And he ruled for 13 years.

[grumdin]

Forgive me, I'm just getting into these forums and digging deeper into the readings, but what is the significance of the 13 Others? Is it because the Night's King was (by some accounts) the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch?

There were 13 in total, the NK and 12 others standing behind him, all of whom were wearing black. The NK was the 13th LC of the NW. The Ranger sent out to collect the baby was also wearing black. Could they smash us any more solidly over the head regarding what exactly the White Walkers are??

[Lost Melnibonean]

Now that we have "seen" the Night's King called out on HBO's Game of Thrones synopsis, does the fact that his presence is now confirmed among the Others help prove/disprove any of this theory?

Nothing in the show can prove or disprove anything in ASOIAF since it's not canon or even semicanon.

[Abel the Bard]

I think the entire scene leading up to the end of the episode, most of which has no basis in the books and serves to significantly alter characters and events, points more firmly towards the show and books diverging. If the person in charge of the Others is the Night's King, how did the Others get started in the first place? I am of the opinion that the show done goofed, and that the Night's King does not lead the Others.

[grumdin]

Nothing in the show can prove or disprove anything in ASOIAF since it's not canon or even semicanon.

That just isn't true at all. Yes the TV show excludes characters and messes with timelines, but the underlying plot remains unchanged. All the imprtant stuff is there. The books will culminate with a cataclysmic event/war involving the Others and the dragons, the idea that they'd so radically change that is just silly.

[grumdin]

I think the entire scene leading up to the end of the episode, most of which has no basis in the books and serves to significantly alter characters and events, points more firmly towards the show and books diverging. If the person in charge of the Others is the Night's King, how did the Others get started in the first place? I am of the opinion that the show done goofed, and that the Night's King does not lead the Others.

We don't know that he's in charge, we do know he stepped forward to convert a human child into a WW. I think there's a lot of folks who've seen their pet theories get blown out of the water and are a little PO'd about the whole thing. I say get used to it, at the rate GRRM is writing there's gonna be spoilers aplenty. After all the TV show is a much bigger deal than the books, at least in a financial sense.

[Mourneblade]

Nothing in the show can prove or disprove anything in ASOIAF since it's not canon or even semicanon.

Are your fingers in your ears as you go "LALALALALALALA"?

There are things the show will do differently, but the story remains the same.

On Topic, Coldhands = Meatsuit for Bloodraven, and was just a plot device...IMHO

[Lost Melnibonean]

That just isn't true at all. Yes the TV show excludes characters and messes with timelines, but the underlying plot remains unchanged. All the imprtant stuff is there. The books will culminate with a cataclysmic event/war involving the Others and the dragons, the idea that they'd so radically change that is just silly.

Then call me silly. I know you're wrong about canon and I think you're wrong about where the novels end up. Silly, silly me.

[Snow Covered Bastard]

There was an article (at work can't look up now) before this past season began of GoT stating the creators (DB and David) had a lengthy discussion with GRRM about what he had in mind for the future of the books. They know they're approaching fast (likely they'll combine the events of FfC and DwD) where the books are at and they may need to make their own endings to the stories. Not to mention, they probably wouldn't want to extend it too far past 6-8 seasons as that's when shows begin to fall off.

Either way, the liberties the show has taken turns me off to it. Honestly, the show (along with Sean Bean) got me into the story which led me to the books. But now I'm a book nerd and dislike certain things they're doing with the show.

On topic again: I still believe the Night's King is not Coldhands (or the supposed leader of the Others) but that his story may be a premonition of another character we know. Hopefully WoW will settle it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Are your fingers in your ears as you go "LALALALALALALA"?

There are things the show will do differently, but the story remains the same.

On Topic, Coldhands = Meatsuit for Bloodraven, and was just a plot device...IMHO

Like I said, just call me silly. The Night's King was defeated in battle some thousands of years before Game. I can't imagine he was exiled. Whether he was killed, executed or escaped was not revealed when Bran recalled Old Nan's tale. But let's say his queen did transform him into an Other and that he escaped justice. Let's further assume he traveled north beyond the Wall and into the Heart of Winter. And let's go all the way and assume that he took over, or at least rose high among, the Others. What does that do for the plot? We already knew what was happening to Craster's wee lads (they were either becoming Others or used by Others for some magic or ritual). The only thing it does for the plot is allow that a Stark is a or the leader of the Others. I think what happened to the Night's King is one of those things the George will leave unanswered. I think the reason he's mentioned at all is to foreshadow or hint at something that's coming in the next fou... I mean two books. Silly, silly me.

[AlienTwo]

There was an article (at work can't look up now) before this past season began of GoT stating the creators (DB and David) had a lengthy discussion with GRRM about what he had in mind for the future of the books. They know they're approaching fast (likely they'll combine the events of FfC and DwD) where the books are at and they may need to make their own endings to the stories. Not to mention, they probably wouldn't want to extend it too far past 6-8 seasons as that's when shows begin to fall off.

Either way, the liberties the show has taken turns me off to it. Honestly, the show (along with Sean Bean) got me into the story which led me to the books. But now I'm a book nerd and dislike certain things they're doing with the show.

On topic again: I still believe the Night's King is not Coldhands (or the supposed leader of the Others) but that his story may be a premonition of another character we know. Hopefully WoW will settle it.

I feel mostly the same, the show got me to the books and now i am a die-hard bookie. In the Show-runners defense, i have been okay with all the changes up until Jamie returned early and the chaos that caused.

I was disappointed not to see Coldhands, which led me to believe that he wasn't an integral mystery to the ending of the story... until the theory of him being the Knight's King came into my knowledge-base... which was before this weeks episode. I believe that the show is canon (at lease semi... it's far too profitable to not be and that is all that really matters, right?) Seeing this weeks episode, I do not believe that Coldhands is the same person as the Knight's King nor Benjen Stark (his disappearance is still a topic of relevance while Coldhands is MIA) but I do think the Other we saw with the Darth Maul-esque horns is the Knight's King. Sadly it kind of castrates the massive and ominous threat of those from beyond the wall, but... there is still so much to learn.

Too bad there wasn't another book after DwD...

[Mourneblade]

Like I said, just call me silly. The Night's King was defeated in battle some thousands of years before Game. I can't imagine he was exiled. Whether he was killed, executed or escaped was not revealed when Bran recalled Old Nan's tale. But let's say his queen did transform him into an Other and that he escaped justice. Let's further assume he traveled north beyond the Wall and into the Heart of Winter. And let's go all the way and assume that he took over, or at least rose high among, the Others. What does that do for the plot? We already knew what was happening to Craster's wee lads (they were either becoming Others or used by Others for some magic or ritual). The only thing it does for the plot is allow that a Stark is a or the leader of the Others. I think what happened to the Night's King is one of those things the George will leave unanswered. I think the reason he's mentioned at all is to foreshadow or hint at something that's coming in the next fou... I mean two books. Silly, silly me.

Honestly great post, lots to think about here.

I was commenting on the whole cannon thing. Obviously the show is going to change things for budget, and for what they feel looks better on screen, but I highly doubt they will change how it ends. So far they have made some changes that mean nothing to the books, and would not even closely be considered cannon, however the major plot lines have not changed.

I do not share your view here, but, it is certainly possible your view could be the right one on the NK. We just do not know yet lol.

[grumdin]

Like I said, just call me silly. The Night's King was defeated in battle some thousands of years before Game. I can't imagine he was exiled. Whether he was killed, executed or escaped was not revealed when Bran recalled Old Nan's tale. But let's say his queen did transform him into an Other and that he escaped justice. Let's further assume he traveled north beyond the Wall and into the Heart of Winter. And let's go all the way and assume that he took over, or at least rose high among, the Others. What does that do for the plot? We already knew what was happening to Craster's wee lads (they were either becoming Others or used by Others for some magic or ritual). The only thing it does for the plot is allow that a Stark is a or the leader of the Others. I think what happened to the Night's King is one of those things the George will leave unanswered. I think the reason he's mentioned at all is to foreshadow or hint at something that's coming in the next fou... I mean two books. Silly, silly me.

Look sorry if my previous post came over as condescending, it really wasn't meant that way.

The significance? ALL of the WWs were wearing black, and now we know at least one of them was a former LC of the Night's Watch. For me it transforms everything I thought I knew about the Others (or should I say assumed).

As for the TV show vs the books. When GRRM signed up with HBO he knew in some respects he was making a pact with the devil. That in return for a heap of money and an enormous amount of free marketing for the books that if he couldn't knock the last two books out on time and if the TV series took off then the show would have the perfect right to continue on with the basic storyline that he'd given to the producers. Guess what? The show is now the biggest thing in pop culture and Martin is nowhere near finsihing the next book. So yes GRRM can always change what he intended to write to foil the show spoilers, but I have absolutely zero doubt that this is exactly what Martin told them regarding the nature of the Others when he signed up.

[AlienTwo]

Look sorry if my previous post came over as condescending, it really wasn't meant that way.

The significance? ALL of the WWs were wearing black, and now we know at least one of them was a former LC of the Night's Watch. For me it transforms everything I thought I knew about the Others (or should I say assumed).

As for the TV show vs the books. When GRRM signed up with HBO he knew in some respects he was making a pact with the devil. That in return for a heap of money and an enormous amount of free marketing for the books that if he couldn't knock the last two books out on time and if the TV series took off then the show would have the perfect right to continue on with the basic storyline that he'd given to the producers. Guess what? The show is now the biggest thing in pop culture and Martin is nowhere near finsihing the next book. So yes GRRM can always change what he intended to write to foil the show spoilers, but I have absolutely zero doubt that this is exactly what Martin told them regarding the nature of the Others when he signed up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the wall built after the Long Night to defend the realm against the WW? In that case, how could Night's Watch members be the entirety of the WW cadre?

[Deep Like Davos]

I feel mostly the same, the show got me to the books and now i am a die-hard bookie. In the Show-runners defense, i have been okay with all the changes up until Jamie returned early and the chaos that caused.

I was disappointed not to see Coldhands, which led me to believe that he wasn't an integral mystery to the ending of the story... until the theory of him being the Knight's King came into my knowledge-base... which was before this weeks episode. I believe that the show is canon (at lease semi... it's far too profitable to not be and that is all that really matters, right?) Seeing this weeks episode, I do not believe that Coldhands is the same person as the Knight's King nor Benjen Stark (his disappearance is still a topic of relevance while Coldhands is MIA) but I do think the Other we saw with the Darth Maul-esque horns is the Knight's King. Sadly it kind of castrates the massive and ominous threat of those from beyond the wall, but... there is still so much to learn.

Too bad there wasn't another book after DwD...

Coldhands is Daemon II.

Saw Season 1 then became a Bookie. Have read everything avail.

Really hope that ending was a DB (squared) invention based on a drug fueled dream after reading Old Nan's tale or that HBO's marketing team messed up with their description (they have messed up details before, even with their own Game of thrones contest).

Only other acceptable explanation for me is that Old Nan's tale is the inaccurate one and that still kinda annoys me.