Coldhands is The Night's King

[oursisthefury69]

denial denial denial

[Lost Melnibonean]

denial denial denial

Who's in denial? Like I suggested above, his queen could have ransformed the NK into an Other and he could have escaped justice. He could have traveled north beyond the Wall and into the Heart of Winter. And he could have taken over, or at least rose high among, the Others.

But what does that do for the plot? If you read the novels you already knew what was happening to Craster's babies. If this was a spoiler for the novels, the only thing you learned was that a Stark is a, or the, leader of the Others.

[Deep Like Davos]

Who's in denial? Like I suggested above, his queen could have ransformed the NK into an Other and he could have escaped justice. He could have traveled north beyond the Wall and into the Heart of Winter. And he could have taken over, or at least rose high among, the Others.

But what does that do for the plot? If you read the novels you already knew what was happening to Craster's babies. If this was a spoiler for the novels, the only thing you learned was that a Stark is a, or the, leader of the Others.

How did we learn that it was a Stark? I have watched it twice... did i miss something?

[AlienTwo]

How did we learn that it was a Stark? I have watched it twice... did i miss something?

If we accept the "different" Other was the Knight's King, it has been fairly well established that the Knight's King was brother the the King in the North at the time, who was as always, a Stark.

[Deep Like Davos]

If we accept the "different" Other was the Knight's King, it has been fairly well established that the Knight's King was brother the the King in the North at the time, who was as always, a Stark.

So doesn't that also requires accepting Old Nan's tale as 100% true? Opposed to a story that has been spread mouth to mouth for thousands of years and changed in the telling?

[AlienTwo]

So doesn't that also requires accepting Old Nan's tale as 100% true? Opposed to a story that has been spread mouth to mouth for thousands of years and changed in the telling?

Yes. That is the additional "if". In reference to the original question, I think the answer was sound. In a world like this though, you are right, we are all like Jon Snow in that we really know nothing. Especially when GRRM has stated that a few of the narrators are "unreliable".

[Mourneblade]

Yes. That is the additional "if". In reference to the original question, I think the answer was sound. In a world like this though, you are right, we are all like Jon Snow in that we really know nothing. Especially when GRRM has stated that a few of the narrators are "unreliable".

yeah just when you think you have it figured out.... GRRM tosses out that bit of info.... that bastard!

JK just keep writing GRRM :)

[gash]

coldhands is clearly not the night's king. he is helping bran and is fighting off the others. the night's king is an Other leader.

[Mulled Wino]

nopo and nope. I like Last Hero as Night's King waaaaay better than this

[AlienTwo]

yeah just when you think you have it figured out.... GRRM tosses out that bit of info.... that bastard!

JK just keep writing GRRM :)

Aaaaaand congrats on your 1000th post.

Let's hope he does finish before something finishes him... I don't want the ending of this to be put in the Showrunner's (however capable) hands.

[Lost Melnibonean]

So doesn't that also requires accepting Old Nan's tale as 100% true? Opposed to a story that has been spread mouth to mouth for thousands of years and changed in the telling?

None of this has been told for thousands of years. The George made it up. What was he suggesting to the reader?

[Berkilak]

Aaaaaand congrats on your 1000th post.

Let's hope he does finish before something finishes him... I don't want the ending of this to be put in the Showrunner's (however capable) hands.

Even worse, they could go the way of Dune and have some hack WarCraft book writer finish the series "based on Martin's original notes."

[oursisthefury69]

@LostMelnibonean "But what does that do for the plot? If you read the novels, you already knew what was happening with Craster's babies. If this was a spoiler for the novels, the only thing you learned was that a Stark is a, or the, leader of the Others." Wow

1. You absolutely do not know that Crasters babies are literally being transformed into Others from the novels, if anything it would be assumed they use them for some type of blood sacrifice like Melisandre's. But keep pretending you've known that all along.

2. The "only" thing we learned was that a Stark lead(s) the Others?!? Really? The only thing we learned is that the central protagonists of the story are really linked to these creatures hell bent on destroying humanity yea no big deal. Like if your trying to dispute my point you could've probably left that part out considering its only speculation. Your clearly lost

[The Mother of The Others]

There were 13 in total, the NK and 12 others standing behind him, all of whom were wearing black. The NK was the 13th LC of the NW. The Ranger sent out to collect the baby was also wearing black. Could they smash us any more solidly over the head regarding what exactly the White Walkers are??

There's a huge gaping hole in this new way of looking at the Others, and I'm ashamed to be pointing at their gape because it seems perverse to stand here and point at the NightKing's plot hole so soon after meeting him. As if I'm obsessed with holes or something. Nonetheless....

It this guy was the "Night King", then he can't also be the Last Hero with his 12 companions, because didn't LastHero win the battle of the Long Winter.... before the Wall was even built??? Also, The last hero isn't a hero if he's the enemy, so we'd need Nan to explain that twist. Something or someone was guilty of something BEFORE the Watch was ever put there to get infected by this curse. We don't have a link back to the origin story. We don't know how the phenom started of people turning cold and blue but living on. We have a reinfection story for the LC13, maybe as a reminder of why Brandon built the wall in the first place but we don't have a way of finding out what BranBuilder perhaps knew--the real motivation behind the Others. We don't know what was so important to all the LCs (or last hero companions?) that they went eternally cold in response to this unknown stimulus. We've got a bunch of turncoats and hand-me-down Others whose testimony would be hearsay compared to someone old enough to remember what first sparked all of this trouble.

So, switching now to the possibility that this was the Last Hero with his 12 companions and not the Night King (which could be the reason NightKing was redacted):

What did the last hero fight against before he perhaps became the thing to fight against???? What required so much bravery? And I guess now it looks like the reason he was the last hero is because everyone saw what became of him and decided not to be a hero themselves. Let's hope he's also the last speaker, because it'd be great if he told us some of these answers now that we have reason to believe he speaks english. Because if there is one specific mission that could change the world and he tried to do it but had mixed results, then all we need to do is find one more moron to take up that mission and get it done.

But who'd be worthy enough among our cast of living characters for him to break his silence and spill his secrets to? Nobody? Same as usual? So how about a dead character? What about a recently dead LC?

Why isn't Mance one of them, especially since he appears to have been opening mummy crypts and graves looking for some relic, which is the preferred way to turn yourself into something cursed. He wasn't high ranking enough? Only LC's qualify for Otherization?

And what if the Last Hero's companions were the raised 12 previous LCs, a pack of leaders heading off to face something even more fearsome than revived zombie good guys? If we do now have an unbroken line of 13 LCs turned Othery and marching on the man lands, doesn't that start to make the unbroken line of Stark kings in the crypts stand out as their opposite number more and more???

[Mourneblade]

Aaaaaand congrats on your 1000th post.

Let's hope he does finish before something finishes him... I don't want the ending of this to be put in the Showrunner's (however capable) hands.

Ty Ty... yeah I really think D&D have done a great job putting this to screen, but I am one of those idiots who remain optimistic that we will read about the ending still then watch it :)

[grumdin]

@LostMelnibonean "But what does that do for the plot? If you read the novels, you already knew what was happening with Craster's babies. If this was a spoiler for the novels, the only thing you learned was that a Stark is a, or the, leader of the Others." Wow

1. You absolutely do not know that Crasters babies are literally being transformed into Others from the novels, if anything it would be assumed they use them for some type of blood sacrifice like Melisandre's. But keep pretending you've known that all along.

2. The "only" thing we learned was that a Stark lead(s) the Others?!? Really? The only thing we learned is that the central protagonists of the story are really linked to these creatures hell bent on destroying humanity yea no big deal. Like if your trying to dispute my point you could've probably left that part out considering its only speculation. Your clearly lost

Who says they're hell bent on destroying humanity?? Oh yeah amnongst others a red preistess who burns people alive and wants to sacrfice a little kid for his blood magic. Otherwise what do we have to go on? Dimly remembered legend mostly. The WWs in the TV Show are clearly members of the NW or are mimicing the NW or the Nights Watch are a copy of the Others. That doesn't tell me that the Wall, defended by the NW, was built to keep the Others out.

[Facebookless Man]

1. You absolutely do not know that Crasters babies are literally being transformed into Others from the novels, if anything it would be assumed they use them for some type of blood sacrifice like Melisandre's. But keep pretending you've known that all along.

2. The "only" thing we learned was that a Stark lead(s) the Others?!? Really? The only thing we learned is that the central protagonists of the story are really linked to these creatures hell bent on destroying humanity yea no big deal. Like if your trying to dispute my point you could've probably left that part out considering its only speculation. Your clearly lost

1. yes we did, the books pretty much spell it out.

2. you don't know that they're hell bent on anything, and the NK being a Stark means what exactly?

[grumdin]

There's a huge gaping hole in this new way of looking at the Others, and I'm ashamed to be pointing at their gape because it seems perverse to stand here and point at the NightKing's plot hole so soon after meeting him. As if I'm obsessed with holes or something. Nonetheless....

The last hero isn't a hero if he's the enemy. Something or someone was guilty of something BEFORE the Watch were there to get infected by this curse. We don't have a link back to the origin story. We don't know how the phenom started of people turning cold and blue but living on. We have a reinfection story for the LC13, maybe as a reminder of why Brandon built the wall in the first place but we don't have a way of finding out what BranBuilder perhaps knew--the real motivation behind the Others. We don't know what was so important to all the LCs (or last hero companions?) that they went eternally cold in response to this unknown stimulus. We've got a bunch of turncoats and hand-me-down Others whose testimony would be hearsay compared to someone old enough to remember what first sparked all of this trouble.

So what did the last hero fight against before he became the thing to fight against???? What required so much bravery? And I guess now it looks like the reason he was the last hero is because everyone saw what became of him and decided not to be a hero themselves. Let's hope he's also the last speaker, because it'd be great if he told us some of these answers now that we have reason to believe he speaks english. Because if there is one specific mission that could change the world and he tried to do it but had mixed results, then all we need to do is find one more moron to take up that mission and get it done.

But who'd be worthy enough among our cast of living characters for him to break his silence and spill his secrets to? Nobody? Same as usual? So how about a dead character? What about a recently dead LC?

Why isn't Mance one of them, especially since he appears to have been opening mummy crypts and graves looking for some relic, which is the preferred way to turn yourself into something cursed. He wasn't high ranking enough? Only LC's qualify for Otherization?

And what if the Last Hero's companions were the raised 12 previous LCs, a pack of leaders heading off to face something even more fearsome than revived zombie good guys? If we do now have an unbroken line of 13 LCs turned Othery and marching on the man lands, doesn't that start to make the unbroken line of Stark kings in the crypts stand out as their opposite number more and more???

Yep, Jon Snow is going to become a White Walker. Has been my pet theory for like forever. The Others aren't the Great Enemy, they are the watchers.

[Mourneblade]

@LostMelnibonean "But what does that do for the plot? If you read the novels, you already knew what was happening with Craster's babies. If this was a spoiler for the novels, the only thing you learned was that a Stark is a, or the, leader of the Others." Wow

1. You absolutely do not know that Crasters babies are literally being transformed into Others from the novels, if anything it would be assumed they use them for some type of blood sacrifice like Melisandre's. But keep pretending you've known that all along.

2. The "only" thing we learned was that a Stark lead(s) the Others?!? Really? The only thing we learned is that the central protagonists of the story are really linked to these creatures hell bent on destroying humanity yea no big deal. Like if your trying to dispute my point you could've probably left that part out considering its only speculation. Your clearly lost

I, personally, have posted time and time again that this was how they reproduced. It might not be the only way, but I knew that is what was happening, and posted about it in every topic I saw on the subject.

Now you, and others, dismissed what Gilly said, a first hand witness, for what Nan, and others said, who were not first hand witnesses. Are you really upset they showed that, or just upset that your belief on this was incorrect?

[Lost Melnibonean]

@LostMelnibonean "But what does that do for the plot? If you read the novels, you already knew what was happening with Craster's babies. If this was a spoiler for the novels, the only thing you learned was that a Stark is a, or the, leader of the Others." Wow

1. You absolutely do not know that Crasters babies are literally being transformed into Others from the novels, if anything it would be assumed they use them for some type of blood sacrifice like Melisandre's. But keep pretending you've known that all along.

2. The "only" thing we learned was that a Stark lead(s) the Others?!? Really? The only thing we learned is that the central protagonists of the story are really linked to these creatures hell bent on destroying humanity yea no big deal. Like if your trying to dispute my point you could've probably left that part out considering its only speculation. Your clearly lost

Thanks for straightening me out. You're awesome.