Comics V: Fox Force Five

[GallowKnight]

Tbh, I probably wouldn't be excited about this book if it wasn't for the cast - except for Rachel, they are all characters I loved as a child, characters from the classic days when the X-Men ruled Marvel. I would be lying to say that I'd rather they use some of their more obscure characters or some of those that aren't currently in any regular title. Though, to be fair, I'd rather they would stick to the decision of only having Rogue in the Uncanny Avengers, but anyway...

I haven't read much of Brian Wood's work, but I did like his arc, in the previous X-Men series, with Storm defying Cyclops' place as a leader and everything. The best kind of dynamics there is.

Brian Wood is really good in my opinion. His work and adjectiveless X-Men was solid with and interesting team dynamic and he has been doing a really good job on the Ultimate counterpart (even though it is extremely Kitty-centric) and his work on Conan the Barbarian over at Dark Horse has been phenomenal.

I also feel that Kitty is the most boring memebr of All Female X-Men (X-Women? X-NotMen?), mostly because of how dreadful she is in WATXM. She is also clearly the one with the ugliest wardrobe, Jubilee's yellow coat notwithstanding.

And finally, before I forget, I read Cable & X-Force and are really hoping the drop or possibly kill Hope as she is horrible, annoying and the worst part of the book. And I'm not sure I even like the book all that much.

[red snow]

Brian Wood is really goo in my opinion. His work and adjectiveless X-Men was solid with and interesting team dynamic and he has been doing a really good job on the Ultimate counterpart (even though it is extremely Kitty-centric) and his work on Conan the Barbarian over at Dark Horse has been phenomenal.

I also feel that Kitty is the most boring memebr of All Female X-Men (X-Women? X-NotMen?), mostly because of how dreadful she is in WATXM. She is also clearly the one with the ugliest wardrobe, Jubilee's yellow coat notwithstanding.

I also like the idea of Brian Wood doing a great job at Marvel and Dark Horse when he was happily a DC guy until they took the "supergirl" relaunch off him at the last minute. The best form of revenge is to create strong titles for the other publishers.

I found DMZ to be really good but I used to read my flatmate's copies and lost track of it when we moved to separate flats. I always wanted to give Northlanders a try too.

[Kalbear]

Kitty was fucking diesel when Whedon was writing her. It sucks that she's gone so bad.

[Nephrite]

DC solicits are up. Hide your children.

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA’S VIBE #3 - What is the one super power that is more than a match for Vibe?

I don't know. Bullets?

JUSTICE LEAGUE #19 - Who is the one person dangerous enough to use Kryptonite against Superman?

Gee, let me answer that with a question. Who is the one person insecure enough to use Kryptonite against Superman?

Batman.

ACTION COMICS #19 - Lex Luthor is in jail and his battlesuit is back in action. But if he's not wearing it, who is?

More importantly, do we care?

BATMAN #19 - Who would cause Bruce Wayne to use a gun?

Darkseid.

We know you read it Snyder.

TALON #7 - If the Court of Owls isn't responsible for killing Talon, then who is?

Nobody cares about Talon, DC.

DETECTIVE COMICS #19 - In a special oversized celebratory issue, Batman is challenged by the "Mystery of the 900!”

Yes. Let's all celebrate issue number 19.

NIGHTWING #19 - “Death of the Family” is over, but the laughs continue to plague Nightwing. But it can't be him—can it?

No. The Joker could never escape from Arkham. Unless you killed him? Did you? Could you?

I, VAMPIRE #19 - With this, the final issue, will Andrew Bennett survive to dawn’s light?

Seriously, DC. You couldn't just give it one more issue? Then again 19 is an anniversary number.

THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN #19 - The Secret Society strikes again—but who is the one member strong enough to ground The Savage Hawkman?

Why is this still being published? Nobody likes this book. Hawkman doesn't like this book. You kill I, Vampire but this lives on?

THE FURY OF FIRESTORM: THE NUCLEAR MAN #19 - What’s more deadly to fire than a Killer Frost?

Just fuckin' cancel it, okay? I'm not even kidding. Firestorm is never going to happen. There will never be a Firestorm movie. Ever.

CONSTANTINE #2 - Which ghostly menace haunts Constantine today?

Probably his R-rated version.

DEATHSTROKE #19 - Which teens are the only ones deadly enough to stop Deathstroke?

Any teens. His MO is to lose from children. The Goonies could royally fuck him up.

LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #19 - The Legion of Super-Heroes is lost and hurtling into the sun—is it possible to save them all?

But, should we save them?

[red snow]

Why does every solicitation in April have to feature a stupid question? Can I play too?

JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA’S VIBE #3 - What is the one super power that is more than a match for Vibe?

Someone with enough editorial sense to know vibe is a bad idea?

JUSTICE LEAGUE #19 - Who is the one person dangerous enough to use Kryptonite against Superman?

anyone who can get their hands on it?

BATMAN #19 - Who would cause Bruce Wayne to use a gun?

The best Batman story Snyder has ever written?.

TALON #7 - If the Court of Owls isn't responsible for killing Talon, then who is?

DC editorial.

DETECTIVE COMICS #19 - In a special oversized celebratory issue, Batman is challenged by the "Mystery of the 900!”

do special anniversary issues not get a question? They should have made it a celebratory $9

I, VAMPIRE #19 - With this, the final issue, will Andrew Bennett survive to dawn’s light?

I'm sure he'll be in Justice League dark in May. Isn't that where all DC Dark characters go when their own title dies?.

THE SAVAGE HAWKMAN #19 - The Secret Society strikes again—but who is the one member strong enough to ground The Savage Hawkman?

His mum?

THE FURY OF FIRESTORM: THE NUCLEAR MAN #19 - What’s more deadly to fire than a Killer Frost?

Water? Lack of oxygen?

CONSTANTINE #2 - Which ghostly menace haunts Constantine today?

Probably his R-rated version. Can't top that one, Nephrite.

Green Arrow #19 - What startling secret is revealed on the island that gave Green Arrow birth?

that he needs to be more like his TV show?

Wonder Woman #19 - What is the one way Wonder Woman can stop Orion?

oh, could it involve a homage to "50 shades of grey"?

Batwoman #19 - What is the shocking family revelation that can turn Batwoman's world upside down?

Her parents are australian?

Catwoman #19 - Catwoman needs help—but what is the only place the Justice League of America can take her?

50 shades of Grey again? Based on the cover it's a possibility.

Batwing #19 - Batwing quits—and what new member of the Batman family is ready to take his place?

?

Red lanterns #19 - All the rage of the Red Lantern Corps is focused on one target. Care to guess who it is?

Cyclops?

[haLobEnder]

Tbh, I probably wouldn't be excited about this book if it wasn't for the cast - except for Rachel, they are all characters I loved as a child, characters from the classic days when the X-Men ruled Marvel. I would be lying to say that I'd rather they use some of their more obscure characters or some of those that aren't currently in any regular title. Though, to be fair, I'd rather they would stick to the decision of only having Rogue in the Uncanny Avengers, but anyway...

I think the exclusivity of characters to Uncanny Avengers has been waved given all the delays with the title.

The characters appearing in Wood's X-Men are some of my favourites from childhood too, the problem is I feel like I can easily get my fix of these characters in other titles. It just seems like back in the day there was more distinction between the X-teams in far fewer titles. Now we have 5+ 'X-Men' books (and two 'X-Force') but it's mostly the same cast with one or two exclusive characters per book and it's a clusterfuck trying to plot a coherent timeline for your favourite characters.

I feel so bad for Rachael. She's so devoid of personality compared to every other X-Man I can think of. Hopefully Wood can change that.

A pity. Rogue was only an interesting character while she "was" Carol Danvers.

I have to agree that she lost a lot of appeal as a character when she gained control of her powers. I think it's because she lacks a flaw now. She's pretty much a Mary Sue.

DC is still changing creative teams like line-ups in a hockey game.

Bear in mind, nothing what's said in the interview might be true tomorrow.

And Jim Starlin on Stormwatch? I guess he should get an award for fucking with Final Crisis.

Doesn't DC realize that all these creative team shake-ups reflects poorly on the overall line? I can honestly say I decided against picking up certain DC titles I would have otherwise picked up because I knew that the writer changed mid-arc or really early on in the titles run.

I think the New 52 was a good idea executed extremely poorly. Rightly or wrongly I blame Harras for that as I think he comes from an era where it was okay to nonchalantly replace creators and no one would be the wiser.

I found DMZ to be really good but I used to read my flatmate's copies and lost track of it when we moved to separate flats. I always wanted to give Northlanders a try too.

I loathed the fist arc of Northlanders and probably wouldn't have given it another shot if I hadn't known each arc was self contained. I've since read a couple others arcs and enjoyed them a hell of a lot more. Still haven't read 'The Plague Widow' though, which is the arc I'm most curious about.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Is one really supposed to believe Shooter never read a milestone issue for a flagship title under his watch as EiC?

Like I said, he's credited as a WRITER in that issue, so I'm pretty sure he read it.

[red snow]

I agree with the X-men franchise being worse that it has ever been in terms of being more of the same. Even in the 90s it was 2 x-men and then different teams with different names or solo titles making out the other dozen. Wolverine was in 2 teams and the only other duplications were with solo characters like Cable.

in the 2000s Quesada had an edict of you could only have another x-men book if it was thematically distinct with something else to say.

Now we have X-men, all new x-men, uncanny x-men. astonishing x-men, wolverine and the X-men and uncanny x-men, X-factor and two X-force books. Out of those I'd say only Wolverine and the x-men, X-factor and one X-force book are distinct from the other x-titles. Although I guess uncanny x-men is about an evil team. I'd forgive all the x-men titles that do the same thing if we got different characters but we don't it's the same people over and over again. How do they really know which team they are on? Do people like Chamber feel really left out when they are benched yet others are on 3 or 4 teams. It's just as well being an x-man isn't a paid job as the select few are really making mutantkind into second class citizens.

Wood really needs to have something to distinguish his title or it will fall into the same trap of the last "x-men" run which was that it wasn't "uncanny" or "wolverine &". Now there's "all new" as well.

I'd like it if there was a mutant in it called "gendercide/femme fatale" that has the ability to kill (or control) anyone with a Y chromosome. Then there'd be a reason for the team. But there still needs to be a reason for keeping the team together. Maybe have them working to help female mutants in countries where they'd be oppressed or mis-used? I'm looking forward to an interview where Wood can try and convince me there's a good reason for following the book as with the X-men I'm not sure it's enough to be a good writer.

[Lady Octarina]

I understand why they decided to create this new X-Men title with that team. I don't know how much you guys talk to girls about comic books, but in my experience, many refuse to read Marvel/DC comics because they see it as a guy-thing - and that's both among girls who read comics and those who don't, nearly all of them see things that way. Hells, I was mostly like that until four years ago! Creating an all-female team with well-known characters (unlike the new Defenders, for example) is their attempt at convincing this group of people that they can create things these people can identify with, that they aren't ignored. It's true that, slowly, more and more girls are getting into super-hero comics, especially with all the movies these past few years, but what I see is that most stick to those series devoted to younger characters (Young Avengers, Avengers Academy, WATXM), where there is a better gender-balance, and just a few go to the X-Men or Avengers books, where there's, I don't know, two women for every four-five male characters? The new Uncanny X-Force is, in theory, supposed to fulfill that role, but everything about it seems to scream "MALE" even if it consists mostly of women.

So, in that aspect, even if the new X-Men book seems to be a repetition of all the others are doing (though, I'd say, "X-Men", in most aspects, will probably be the series that better sticks with what the X-Men were ten years ago, since the rest are either too dark or too light), it is valid in the gender-inclusion aspect, which, like it or not, is an essential part of today's world. Of course, instead of creating an all-female team, they could simply give more importance to female characters in other books, but that could backfire - the regular readers, mostly guys, could decide to stop buying that book because it felt "girly" (and, come on, you know many of the less-enlightened group of men would do that, no matter how childish the reasoning), and they can't lose money, so...

[red snow]

I just not convinced that a team consisting entirely of women is what female characters want. I'm not particularly bothered about reading about an all male team. Female readers must be interested in more than just the gender make-up. I mean what do the female readers here think would make a good book for girls/women?

[Lady Octarina]

I agree it didn't have to be entirely of women, but that only shows it was men who made the decision. :laugh:

Tbh, I'm happy with anything where there are characters, male or female, I can relate to, but, of course, with female characters it's just an easier process for us to relate to what they go through (minus the super powers part, maybe). I think a gender balance should be enough, and the X-Men are probably the only team where that happens, but it's been a while since we had good stories where an X-team has a female leader (because, come on, adjectiveless X-Men and New Mutants are far from that. And Generation Hope was for teenagers). As to the Avengers, I remember Wasp and the Scarlet Witch have been leaders, but that was far too many years ago, wasn't it? Was there anyone in that position during Bendis' era other than Cap and Iron Man?

[Sci-2]

Yeah, I agree with Lady Oct - Most women and girls I knew who read comics didn't go near the capes. I remember FF Marvel Knights, which had a decent story but Sue Storm was in all sorts of silly playmate positions, and my sister gave it back to me and told me she just couldn't read it.

However, she loved Alan Moore's Top 10 and some of his other stuff IIRC, and I think she read a little of Ellis's Stormwatch.

I think the Big 2 need to show that they are interested in women readers...which brings me to Gillen's comments about a reader of Ms. Marvel:

Ever since our work on Phonogram, Jamie have strove to make our comics – for want of a better phrase – slash-fic-able. If you’re working in certain heroic fantasy genres, that’s part of the emotional churn. And that part is what loses the sort of person who thinks by Jamie redesigning Ms. Marvel’s costume he’s destroying the “sex-cake”.

(Oh man. Someone really did say Jamie had removed the icing from the sex-cake. Sometimes all you can do is blink when doing this gig. Blink so hard you hope your eyes open on some kind of better world. I digress.)

[haLobEnder]

Wood really needs to have something to distinguish his title or it will fall into the same trap of the last "x-men" run which was that it wasn't "uncanny" or "wolverine &". Now there's "all new" as well.

I'd like it if there was a mutant in it called "gendercide/femme fatale" that has the ability to kill (or control) anyone with a Y chromosome. Then there'd be a reason for the team. But there still needs to be a reason for keeping the team together. Maybe have them working to help female mutants in countries where they'd be oppressed or mis-used? I'm looking forward to an interview where Wood can try and convince me there's a good reason for following the book as with the X-men I'm not sure it's enough to be a good writer.

I think your last scenario would hammer it home a bit too much that this is a book about gender and not in a way that's likely to draw in more of an audience, female or male. For me, I sort of view it as a natural extension of what the preceding X-Men series had already been doing -- presenting an X-Men team where the ratios of male to female characters was a complete non-issue (or rather I'm pretty sure it was an issue, but they wanted to be perceived as post-modern enough as not to care).

Are they treating this all-female X-team thing like a gimmick? Is it an attempt to draw in more of a female readership? Probably a 'yes' to both, but I thinking this book will be less about gender then it will be a book about the main characters, all of whom just happen to be women.

The new Uncanny X-Force is, in theory, supposed to fulfill that role, but everything about it seems to scream "MALE" even if it consists mostly of women.

I think that's the problem with most superhero comics that deliberately attempt to draw in a female audience instead of ones where they just naturally occur: They're typically using characters with an appearance and back-history developed almost exclusively by male creators with a male audience in mind.

What was that webcomic someone here posted to awhile back? The one that pointed out that while both male and female body representations in comics meet an ideal, the male image is essentially a male power fantasy and the female image is essentially a male sexual fantasy. I don't know if I agree with the premise that all women would prefer an 'elfin' looking male to a muscular type --just as I don't agree that all men find the big-breasted, scantly-clad females one finds in most superhero comics all that appealing-- but I tend to agree with the point.

[red snow]

I agree it didn't have to be entirely of women, but that only shows it was men who made the decision. :laugh:

Tbh, I'm happy with anything where there are characters, male or female, I can relate to, but, of course, with female characters it's just an easier process for us to relate to what they go through (minus the super powers part, maybe). I think a gender balance should be enough, and the X-Men are probably the only team where that happens, but it's been a while since we had good stories where an X-team has a female leader (because, come on, adjectiveless X-Men and New Mutants are far from that. And Generation Hope was for teenagers). As to the Avengers, I remember Wasp and the Scarlet Witch have been leaders, but that was far too many years ago, wasn't it? Was there anyone in that position during Bendis' era other than Cap and Iron Man?

I guess the good thing about an all female cast is that it avoids it all being about inter-team romance (although I guess they could out some of the cast).

I wonder who the leader of this team is? You'd think if Psylocke outranks Storm in x-force it wont be storm (despite her being a leader for a while). Rogue was leader of a team for a while too and if Wood takes a bit of ultimate kitty to whiny kitty she could be as well. Although I don't know if they really need a leader as such.

I agree that it's the artwork that's probably more off-putting. There's still a lot of comic writers by males for males but there's plenty of them who are good enough writers to write for both genders. If they are lumbered with a cheesecake artist it can be an insurmountable problem though.

[Lady Octarina]

What was that webcomic someone here posted to awhile back? The one that pointed out that while both male and female body representations in comics meet an ideal, the male image is essentially a male power fantasy and the female image is essentially a male sexual fantasy. I don't know if I agree with the premise that all women would prefer an 'elfin' looking male to a muscular type --just as I don't agree that all men find the big-breasted, scantly-clad females one finds in most superhero comics all that appealing-- but I tend to agree with the point.

You know, this makes me wonder if the new uniforms for some of Marvel's female characters - Captain Marvel, Storm, Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, and Psylocke, especially - were designed that way so as to attract female readers, since many feel offended by the amount of skin (I'm considering the pink part of the Scarlet Witch's uniform here as skin, because, honestly) shown. Not to mention those uniforms are ridiculously unpractical...

I wonder who the leader of this team is? You'd think if Psylocke outranks Storm in x-force it wont be storm (despite her being a leader for a while). Rogue was leader of a team for a while too and if Wood takes a bit of ultimate kitty to whiny kitty she could be as well. Although I don't know if they really need a leader as such.

On that Marvel.com interview, Wood said Storm will be the leader and Psylocke will be her second. Honestly, I'm still not entirely convinced it won't be the same way in Uncanny X-Force; it's hard to picture Storm as anything but the leader in the series she's in, except when Cyclops or Xavier are around.

[Nephrite]

I think that a lot of women aren't simply into superheroes cause, well, violence. A lot of women just don't get the same kick from seeing people crushing each others skulls as much as men do. It probably has a lot to do with upbringing. And you can make a book where absolutely no man appear but still have Psylocke karate her way across panels and they won't care.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this new book had an even bigger percentage of male readers than usual. Cause, it's Coipel drawing Psylocke.

[Sci-2]

Gillen's essays on his Young Avengers Team is a pretty cool read IMO.

[Lady Octarina]

I think that a lot of women aren't simply into superheroes cause, well, violence. A lot of women just don't get the same kick from seeing people crushing each others skulls as much as men do. It probably has a lot to do with upbringing. And you can make a book where absolutely no man appear but still have Psylocke karate her way across panels and they won't care.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this new book had an even bigger percentage of male readers than usual. Cause, it's Coipel drawing Psylocke.

You'd be surprised at how many women actually love violence more than they're willing to admit (at least in the "Generation Y"). I know three couples where the women practically have to drag their boyfriends to MMA fights :rofl:

I don't think violence itself is the problem - just go to The Walking Dead threads here and see how many women what the show and love all the gore. My impression is that it really is how female characters are portrayed, how male-oriented are the stories, things like that.

[haLobEnder]

You know, this makes me wonder if the new uniforms for some of Marvel's female characters - Captain Marvel, Storm, Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, and Psylocke, especially - were designed that way so as to attract female readers, since many feel offended by the amount of skin (I'm considering the pink part of the Scarlet Witch's uniform here as skin, because, honestly) shown. Not to mention those uniforms are ridiculously unpractical...

I think one of the best examples of practical yet still appealing superhero clothing comes from another Brian Wood property, namely the remake/relaunch of DV8 from a couple years back, with art by the wonderful Rebekah Isaacs. That to me is the way forward in terms of costume design for any superhero, male or female -- scrapping the spandex in favour of things that look more real-world in design and function.

[Nephrite]

You'd be surprised at how many women actually love violence more than they're willing to admit (at least in the "Generation Y"). I know three couples where the women practically have to drag their boyfriends to MMA fights :rofl:

Well, obviously not all women. :)

I don't think violence itself is the problem - just go to The Walking Dead threads here and see how many women what the show and love all the gore. My impression is that it really is how female characters are portrayed, how male-oriented are the stories, things like that.

Walking Dead is a bit different IMO. Violence there is, I don't, not the main draw? Maybe, I haven't watched it. Like Joe Casey said, superheroes are like porn. There's some dialogue and then it's on to action. With porn it's sex, with capes it's punching.

The portrayal is a problem, but in my experience those that write bad female characters aren't much good in the male department.

I think one of the best examples of practical yet still appealing superhero clothing comes from another Brian Wood property, namely the remake/relaunch of DV8 from a couple years back, with art by the wonderful Rebekah Isaacs. That to me is the way forward in terms of costume design for any superhero, male or female -- scrapping the spandex in favour of things that look more real-world in design and function.

That bloody DV8 mini. If that wasn't just the beginning of an ongoing that somebody at editorial cut down, than nothing was. Wasted potential.

Come to think of it, and on a practically unrelated note, capes are really not tapping into most action tropes. Hell, I can't remember when I saw a chase sequence in a superhero comic. Batman used to do that. These days it's just jumping head first into a fistfight. The lack of imagination is staggering. At this point it's punchings and resurrections.

The designs are great, but usually when you do them on characters older than 20 years people start complaining about "too many lines" and other insane stuff.