JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Okay, I've posted this in other threads before, but since I'm incredibly full of myself and tend to think the posts I made should have garnered more attention and resulted in direct responses I feel bored enough to make my own thread.Am I the only one who believes that Sandor could still very well be dead, and that The Gravedigger most likely/could have been done on by Martin simply because The Hound had a large fanbase?As in; GRRM made the Gravedigger so that fans could assume that the hound lived IF THEY CHOSE TO.Because let's face it, that's about the most wrapped up ending any character has gotten in the series.His brother (as we know him) is dead, Killing him which was Sandor's only goal in life is gone.The anger that made and drove him as a character has been quenched/driven from him.He is in a remote, isolated area where he has practically no chance of interacting with anyone again.If Rober Strong IS UnGregor, his first battle against the faith virtually has to guarantee that he emerges a victor to prove he's a super badass.Sandor isn't going to miraculously "rise from the dead" just to really be killed by his UnBrother.The Gravedigger IMO exists ONLY for fans to decide for themselves what finally became of Sandor Clegane.It also makes no sense for him to "Be Revived" just in the nick of time to save one of the Stark girls.And it kinda irks me that people believe this will DEFINITELY happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It would be an interesting twist to mess with the fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 It would be an interesting twist to mess with the fans...But I mean, is there any flaw in my logic?When has Martin done the (anti?) hero arrives in the nick of time thing?It seems unlike GRRM to bring him back like that.The only way I could REALLY see the hound returning as if Thoros or someone brought him back like UnCat, just even zombi-er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 But I mean, is there any flaw in my logic?When has Martin done the (anti?) hero arrives in the nick of time thing?It seems unlike GRRM to bring him back like that.The only way I could REALLY see the hound returning as if Thoros or someone brought him back like UnCat, just even zombi-erHmm, your right. Martin is about upheaving fantasy cliches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hmm, your right. Martin is about upheaving fantasy cliches........Can't tell if being condescending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 But I mean, is there any flaw in my logic?When has Martin done the (anti?) hero arrives in the nick of time thing?It seems unlike GRRM to bring him back like that.The only way I could REALLY see the hound returning as if Thoros or someone brought him back like UnCat, just even zombi-erHero arriving in the nick of time? Stannis arriving at the Wall to save Jon's ass might qualify. As might Jaime saving Brienne in the bear pit. Yes, GRRM is often subverting fantasy tripes, but not always; and often enough he's double subverting tropes, so that they turn out in the usual way, but via a twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Poem Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 We don't know it. Everything is possible. Maybe the Gravedigger is Sandor, maybe he is'nt him. All in GRRM's hands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'd love to add that the Elder Brother shouldn't be taken literally on death. He claims he himself died on the battlefield, so we should take anyconfirmation of death with a massive grain of salt. He might just as well refer to spiritual death, not physical death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hero arriving in the nick of time? Stannis arriving at the Wall to save Jon's ass might qualify. As might Jaime saving Brienne in the bear pit. Yes, GRRM is often subverting fantasy tripes, but not always; and often enough he's double subverting tropes, so that they turn out in the usual way, but via a twist.Big Differences, We had plenty of warning that Stannis was going North, We had Jaime's POV letting us know he was going to save Brienne (just not from what) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 .....Can't tell if being condescendingI was actually being serious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Alternative scenario: the Hound died and Sandor lived for some purpose other than saving one or the other of the Stark girls or fighting Robert Strong. You logic fails by limiting the reasons for his survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Big Differences, We had plenty of warning that Stannis was going North, We had Jaime's POV letting us know he was going to save Brienne (just not from what)They still shouldn't have arrived an hour later, or things would have been going downhill.I agree that we shouldn't extrapolate Sandor's future fate too much, but to me it seems pretty obvious that he's still alive. Of course, GRRM might well decide to finish his arc on the Quiet Isle and never have him appear again. He might just as well appear again. I just contend the idea that he's dead. He's definitely the Gravedigger Novice on the Quiet Isle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastplate Stretcha Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'd love to add that the Elder Brother shouldn't be taken literally on death. He claims he himself died on the battlefield, so we should take anyconfirmation of death with a massive grain of salt. He might just as well refer to spiritual death, not physical death.I rather like the idea of Rhaegar being the Elder Brother and Sandor being the gravedigger. Hopefully none of this gets debunked and I can go on thinking the QI is a place for people who's stories have ended but they haven't physically died! :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'd love to add that the Elder Brother shouldn't be taken literally on death. He claims he himself died on the battlefield, so we should take anyconfirmation of death with a massive grain of salt. He might just as well refer to spiritual death, not physical death.I know.That's what I'm saying.There's enough clues to hint that it is the hound, For The Readers who would like it to be.What REALLY drove me to this opinion of mine is the dog walking up to the Gravedigger and him petting him.There was NOTHING subtle about that. Generally he's way more subtle than that, and it would've probably taken me a re-read at least to come to that conclusion.I'll admit it if I end up being wrong, but it really seems like with that scene Martin was saying to the fans "Draw your own conclusion. Is Sandor Dead? Or at peace ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 At OPSandor lives.It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just a side issue, I can't take Robert the collection of body parts seriously, and can only picture a farce when Qyburn drags him out. I think I am the only one - seems to be a general feeling thet Cersei will win her trial. I think the BEAST in the dungeon that needs a ready supply of fresh women is right into some old pulp magazine territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K26dp Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 So really you're just wondering if Sandor will be a part of the story going forward, yes? If you are saying that GRRM put the gravedigger bits in the book to give the Sandor fans some hope, but nothing will come of it, then it doesn't matter from a story perspective if Sandor is alive or dead.If that's the case, then I think I agree with you. I don't think Sandor will be a factor in the story moving forward. I do think that GRRM completely intended the reader to infer that the gravedigger=Sandor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I can see it being a way for fans to interpret their own ending for the character. Either way, I just don't want the Hound back in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Alternative scenario: the Hound died and Sandor lived for some purpose other than saving one or the other of the Stark girls or fighting Robert Strong. You logic fails by limiting the reasons for his survival.As I said in my first post"Because let's face it, that's about the most wrapped up ending any character has gotten in the series.His brother (as we know him) is dead, Killing him which was Sandor's only goal in life is gone.The anger that made and drove him as a character has been quenched/driven from him.He is in a remote, isolated area where he has practically no chance of interacting with anyone again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegrM Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I can see it being a way for fan's to interperet their own ending for the character. Either way, I just don't want the Hound back in the story.Yes. Exactly my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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