The Hound/Gravedigger Nonsense

[Lone direwolf]

I just thought of this as some people have mentioned the possibility of the gravedigger being the hound and possibly fighting for the faith against ungregor who would be cerci's champion. If Cersi loses her trial by combat would she be put to death? Could the younger brother the hound be the valanquar?

[The Faceless Bard]

the hound has a lot left to his story, and in the end he will stand for everything a knight should stand for

[Thendel]

Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

So what does that tell us? That Stranger is still fierce. That Stranger refuses to be gelded. That there's still that strong bond between Stranger and Sandor. And that bond with Stranger, the warhorse, was underscored in the Elder Brother's final remarks in the chapter, too. He's trying to get Brienne to stop looking for Sandor. But the reader knows Sandor still lives, and Sandor is still Stranger's master, and Stranger is still fierce, so...

And a man does not need to be consumed by anger to be fierce - Sandor wasn't able to save Sansa from the mob because he was angry, he was able to because he was fierce. I myself doubt that Sandor is becoming a little lamb, or that his part in this story is done.

[Kittykatknits]

Regarding his leg, it hasn't been that long since the injury. He's still relatively young and was in excellent physical condition before the injury, so that his condition will improve seems reasonable. Isn't it significant that they gave him a physically demanding job? And they said they said he has dug a whole bunch of graves for them in a relatively short period of time, so he's getting the job done. Limping and struggling, he's not at capacity, but if he was never going to get there, why not have him help out in the kitchen.

About the speculation, that's sort of the point for the whole forum, right? So tell me...

What is the purpose of including so much in the chapter about Stranger? Why include that at all. Why make it clear he's still fierce. And that he stayed with Sandor. Why not just have Stranger run off when Sandor passed out.

He heralds their arrival with a trumpet:

It goes without saying that I agree with you. There are multiple things that make me think he is coming back, none of which are to act for the Faith and fight his zombie brother.

1. The distinction between his anger and ferocity. Sansa displays an incredible understanding between the two, unlike anyone else in the series. We also have multiple forms of proof that his rage is gone but that ferocity is not. And why would this happen if he is going to dig graves for the rest of his life?

2. Sansa's thoughts about him are not just random memories but between her thoughts and his statements we are seeing a clear evolution in their relationship. It's still growing. It's very different than other interactions we see in the series where a character either ceases to or rarely thing of another once they part ways.

3. As you say about the horse, it could have just left. Or, Martin could have given Sandor peace by actually killing him, a further confession to Arya before doing so.

4. Martin has been very careful when answering questions about Sandor Clegane. He's been asked if we will learn the House Clegane words and he avoided an answer there. Our own LS asked whether Sansa would ever get a replacement wolf since Lady is dead and he avoided that answer, saying keep reading. He's been asked whether the two of them will meet again, and once more gave a cryptic answer. Seems like there is something he doesn't want to tell us.

5. I think it's important to note that the EB does not just want Brienne to leave Sandor alone, he's trying to get her to completely abandon her quest and return home to her father. I've always wondered why. If she no longer plans to kill Sandor, why attempt to sway her on this?

So, sure it's possible he isn't coming back, but there are lots of things that point to the idea that his story isn't done.

And that quote that you posted has me thinking. I consider Stranger to be a reflection of Sandor. I like your description of Stranger heralding the arrival of Brienne. He trumpets and then kicks the door of his stall. In other words, her arrival causes a stir in Stranger. I wonder if this hints at a similar reaction from Sandor?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

He was Prince Joffrey ’ sworn shield for many a year, and even here [on the Quiet Isle] we would hear tell of his deeds, both good and ill. If even half of what we heard was true, this was a bitter, tormented soul, a sinner who mocked both gods and men. He served, but found no pride in service. He fought, but took no joy in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself. It was hate that drove him. Though he committed many sins, he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dream of love, or wealth or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamed of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder just to speak of it. Yet it was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning. Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for … and even that was taken from him, when Prince Oberyn of Dorne stabbed Ser Gregor with a poisoned spear

-EB/FOC Chap 31 quoted in AWOIAF

First- this is a lot of outside information for someone who has just claimed they get little news from the world to have. And very personal information about Sandor Clegane at that.

Second- EB also says "I came upon him by the Trident, drawn by his cries of pain. He begged me for the gift of mercy, but I am sworn not to kill again. Instead, I bathed his fevered brow with river water, and gave him wine to drink and a poultice for his wound, but my efforts were too little and too late. The Hound died there, in my arms." He also assures Brienne that the Stark girl with Sandor was Arya, not Sansa.

Is it reasonable to think Sandor, in throes of death, imparted all of the above information? Or maybe more reasonable to think The Hound dies and Sandor lived on to share his news and personal torments with EB as he recovered?

Taken with all of the other evidence discussed here (Stranger, Dog, Sansa and EB's use of the phrase "I died in the Battle of the Trident" although he is quite clearly alive) I believe this theory. Sandor has unfinished business with Sansa Stark. There has been too much set up to think anything else.

[Kittykatknits]

And regarding my second point above, the other big example of a relationship that continues to grow and develop while the two characters are apart is that of Jaime and Brienne. And guess what? They saw each other again....

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

*sigh* I miss Sandor Clegane..........coooooooooomeeee baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

[Old-Growth]

But he's the only guy big and skilled enough to kill that thing.

Oh? What about Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun? Suppose the killing of Ser Kevan and Pycelle leads to a delay in the trial long enough to fetch the Giant from Castle Black.

[JaegrM]

Oh? What about Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun? Suppose the killing of Ser Kevan and Pycelle leads to a delay in the trial long enough to fetch the Giant from Castle Black.

Honestly my fan choice for the man to kill UnGregor would be Jon Snow.

We know he's a sword wielding badass with Valerian steel, but except for Mance (who's glamour made him seem as though his strength, stride and reach couldn't possibly be what they were, and who also happens to be a super badass )

He pretty much whoops everyone else, given the NW isnt full of trained soldiers, but I'd like a fight involving Snow and at least one BAMF where he comes out clearly on top.

So as to clearly define him as high tier.

[Carey Snow]

Really?

The way I see that battle going is *trumpets/badass intro music play in your head*

OMG THE HOUND LIVES!!! (even though he's at peace and has given up violence),

But what's this....? This unknown super unstoppable badass Robert Strong, in his first fight has to establish exactly how much of a BAMF he is and kills Sandor with one hit.

OR

Robert Strong after all his buildup as an un-killable, undead juggernaut goes out like a little bitch, and the The hound is stuck in KL where he has nothing to do and is wanted for desertion.

Why does the Hound have to fight Robert Strong the first time? That honor will likely go to Lancel Lannister as he is one of Cercei's accusers. That does not mean that the Hound will not fight Robert Strong later on in the story after Strong has been proven to be a Bad @ss.

[King Bobby B]

I feel that Sandor is 100% alive, but I'm not sure about the whole nick-of-time-rescue thing. It would be kind of nice for at least one character in this series to get a quiet end. He's free of his demons and he's doing what he can to make up for his sins.

[Lyanna Stark]

For a dead non pov he is also talked about post "death" an awful lot. Cersei, Jaime, Kevan, Brienne, Sansa, Arya and even Daenerys! Yes, he is name dropped in one of Dany's ADWD chapters by Barristan. I don't know why this would be so unless a big "don't forget this dude" sign is hanging on it all.

[JaegrM]

For a dead non pov he is also talked about post "death" an awful lot. Cersei, Jaime, Kevan, Brienne, Sansa, Arya and even Daenerys! Yes, he is name dropped in one of Dany's ADWD chapters by Barristan. I don't know why this would be so unless a big "don't forget this dude" sign is hanging on it all.

Well, there is a couple impostors and the people who know he died are few and far between...

Seems kinda obviously self explanatory.

[JaegrM]

after reading that it sounded much ruder than intended. Apologies.

[Brienne Of Bombay]

Sandor has a lot of things unfinished and that's why I believe that he is still alive. With so much being said about the only objective in his life being killing his brother, if Robert Strong is indeed Gregor, I don't think his character would be killed off so easily.

[chrisdaw]

He'll kill unGregor, just his motivation won't be self serving revenge but rather a necessity he'll reluctantly embrace, none is so accursed as the kinslayer.

[JaegrM]

Sandor has a lot of things unfinished and that's why I believe that he is still alive. With so much being said about the only objective in his life being killing his brother, if Robert Strong is indeed Gregor, I don't think his character would be killed off so easily.

What is unfinished?

From what I can tell, it's mostly fans that want him to do A, B, or C before his character is completely written out that say this.

Sansa has Nothing to offer him if he's already found peace, same goes for Arya

What possible kind of relationship could they have with the hound except for the Hound to 'Save' them, kind of negating all their character growth and being able to take care of themselves.

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  In the Beginning you introduce the reader to the character and the situation they find themselves in. Plot Point 1 is a situation that drives this character from their "normal" life toward some different conflicting situation that their story is about.

  
  

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    Great stories often begin at Plot Point 1, thrusting the main character right into the thick of things, but they never really leave out Act 1, instead filling it in with back story along the way.

    
    

  [*]

  In the Middle the character develops through a series of complications and obstacles, each leading to a mini crisis. Though each of these crises are temporarily resolved, their story leads inevitably to an ultimate crisis—the Climax. As the story progresses, there is a rising and falling of tension with each crisis, but an overall rising tension as we approach the Climax.

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  In the End,Tension rapidly dissipates

  
  

That's from an essay on how to write a character arc from beginning to end

[Scipio Africanus]

For a dead non pov he is also talked about post "death" an awful lot. Cersei, Jaime, Kevan, Brienne, Sansa, Arya and even Daenerys! Yes, he is name dropped in one of Dany's ADWD chapters by Barristan. I don't know why this would be so unless a big "don't forget this dude" sign is hanging on it all.

I wouldn't pin too much hope on a return of mr. Hound if that's your main reasoning. People also quite regularly chat about for example Mad King Aerys, Prince Rhaegar and Ser Arthur Dayne. I don't think we can expect them back any time soon.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

It's the Hound, and his story didn't end, he found peace, but he'll have to redeem the stuff he did before (he was a bad guy), so probably he will become some knight hero, a different knight hero, opposite the way Sansa idealized the great knight, she always imagined them beaultiful, for example, and it would be great if her hero is supposed to be Sandor Clegane

[JaegrM]

It's the Hound, and his story didn't end, he found peace, but he'll have to redeem the stuff he did before (he was a bad guy), so probably he will become some knight hero, a different knight hero, opposite the way Sansa idealized the great knight, she always imagined them beaultiful, for example, and it would be great if her hero is supposed to be Sandor Clegane

Oh... protecting the Stark girls isn't redeeming?

And you realize if he is 'At Peace', that means he's not feeling any crushing guilt or anything.

peace

noun \ˈpēs\

Definition of PEACE

1

:

a state of tranquillity

or quiet: as

a

:

freedom from civil disturbance

b

:

a state of security or order within a community provided for by law or custom <a breach of the

peace

>

2

:

freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions