The Hound/Gravedigger Nonsense

[wandering]

Think there'd still be a pretty big pay off having Sandor slay UnGregor. Would of course depend on the circumstances.

[redviper9]

Think there'd still be a pretty big pay off having Sandor slay UnGregor. Would of course depend on the circumstances.

I just don't see it.

The Hound was built up as hating Gregor specifically, and Robert Strong is not Gregor. Sure, it might be Gregor's body, but what made Gregor Gregor is gone. It falls in line with what we've learned about the two characters brought back from death (Beric and Cat/Lady Stoneheart): you're not really the same person you once were once you come back from the great beyond.

And as I recall (I don't have the books at hand, so I can't be precise), the Elder Brother does tell Brienne that the Hound was robbed of his purpose by Oberyn Martell. I think it was knowing that Gregor was dead was what allowed the Hound to "die." I just can't see Sandor coming back to take on a headless FrankenGregor, though I could be wrong.

[DogLover]

Since Bran's prophecy early in AGoT, I've assumed there will be some kind of showdown involving Jaime, Sandor, and Gregor (now RS). How, since Jaime has one hand and Sandor is lame, I have no idea. If it does happen, it will certainly be dramatic and suspenseful, but in a completely different way than what many fans are expecting. It isn't going to be the epic battle between the Hound and Gregor that many hope to read about since UnGregor is just an empty shell and Sandor will be confronting him for completely different reasons other than revenge.

[Le Cygne]

Indeed. I think it's also significant that Sansa prayed for his raged to be gentled on the same day that she later admired his ferocity. Then, we get hints with Sandor's horse and his throwing of the dirt that her prayer came true. The rage is indeed gone but the ferocity still remains. What's the purpose of this if it is merely to spend the rest of his life digging graves?

I like the way you tied the prayer to the Quiet Isle. And she liked that he was fierce, she can handle it.

I sometimes play with the idea that the epic fight between Sandor and his brother that we all want to read about already happened...way back in GoT during the Hands' Tourney.

I think so, too. And he chose not to kill him then ("not once did Sandor send a cut at his brother’s unprotected face"). He was the better man.

It's in the sword and laser interview and Martin does talk about the producers wanting it although he doesn't go in to a lot of specifics.

You are right, here it is, and he does specifically say they added it:

The wonderful tavern scene in Blackwater Bay which was added by David and Dan with the confrontation between Bronn and the Hound...

[Blue Moon]

GRRM is the God of the ASOIAF universe and I don't think that He is done with Sandor yet.

[chrisdaw]

It's epic fantasy, not an understated western.

[Kittykatknits]

You are right, here it is, and he does specifically say they added it:

Thank you. I watched that whole interview as it had this bit and the mentions of Sandor/Sansa. I'm pretty lazy about bookmarking so I'm not always right in my exact quotes, but I don't make stuff up when it comes to Martin. :)

And it seems pretty clear that that scene was a D&D thing, not Martin. Add this in with their Bronn fanboy love, I took that scene as a way to further develop him as a BA, just using the Hound as a vehicle to make that happen.

In the books, Sandor Clegane is easily the famed and feared one, not Bronn.

[Roose Seal]

I can totally imagine Sandor coming out of "retirement" to save Sansa, proving to be more of a true knight than anyone she's encountered, but it would definitely be a little cliché.

In the meantime I'll be perfectly fine with him staying at the Quiet Isle.

[Trident full of Dogs]

But he's the only guy big and skilled enough to kill that thing.

What about Areo Hotah??? Finish Oberyn's work?

[Scipio Africanus]

At any rate I highly doubt Sandor will confront Frankengregor at Cercei's trial. How would the Faith know to send for some anonymous gravedigger at Saltpens? No the Faith would elect someone from the Faith Militant. Lancel for example.

[ServantOnIce]

If you read AFFC the Elder Brother on the Isle when talks to Brienne informs her that Sandor is gone but he says something only someone intimate with Sandor would know. Sandor's internal pain. Sandor totally being consumed with killing Gregor and that being all he lived for.

Sandor is the grave digger, Sandor is injured from the wounds he sustained late in ASOS, and his time in ASOIAF is done.

GRRM told us blatantly. Why folks continue to debate things GRRM has clearly stated in interviews and that are blatantly obvious in the books is beyond me.

[Kittykatknits]

GRRM told us blatantly. Why folks continue to debate things GRRM has clearly stated in interviews and that are blatantly obvious in the books is beyond me.

That's not quite accurate. He's been asked about the Hound but has never come out and said that Sandor Clegane is never coming back.

In one interview he was asked if Sandor and Sansa would meet again. His repsonse was something like "the hound is dead and so is Sansa. There is only Alayne."

In other words, he deliberately avoids answering the question. It's a plot point he doesn't want to reveal to the readers.

[Quiet Isle]

He's not dead. Martin would not have made him such an important character for no reason.

Someone posted above that the Quiet isles are so remote would he find out about anything going on that might incite him to leave.

Well Brienne is there or was there. and The Elder Brother has certainly heard Sandor talk about Sansa nonstop during their "heart to heart psychological healing discussions". He certainly is going to tell Sandor why Brienne is there. he's also going to tell Sandor that someone is impersonating him.

Sandor is going to follow Brienne in an effort to find Sansa. I do think he will be pitted against Ungregor, but wasn't there some talk about having SEVEN folks fight against seven, like in the Dunk and Egg novella?

I really hope Sansa saves him by some political maneuvering, or even through some brute strength if she wargs an animal or even a dragon. Nothing would make me happier than to see her ride in on a dragon and burn Ungregor to death in front of Sandor.

[blakeledbetter]

i dont buy that GRRM is doing it to please a fan base. after all how many characters has he killed off with a greater fan base and have not let them with a good feeling about it. i dont think its that kind of story. there will be a point to the gravedigger, i do not know what it is and wont guess but there will be one.

[Quiet Isle]

i dont buy that GRRM is doing it to please a fan base. after all how many characters has he killed off with a greater fan base and have not let them with a good feeling about it. i dont think its that kind of story. there will be a point to the gravedigger, i do not know what it is and wont guess but there will be one.

Oh i definitely agree with you that Martin is NOT trying to please any fanbase. He has made that abundantly clear. But he doesn't just introduce a smoking gun and leave it there. There's more of an arc to his story imho. It's like the Wall. It's there. It's coming down.

[wildlingrose]

The Hand's Tourney was mentioned previously as the big fight between Gregor and Sandor. I agree with the thought that this fight was what could have been the epic show-down between the brothers. Note that Ned says that Sandor did not aim any blows at his brother's head. He had a chance to kill Gregor but didn't. Why? I've seen different interpretations, but the bottom line is that he didn't kill him when he had a chance. I think this certainly says something about the Hound's motivations vs. Sandor's motivations, and the inner struggle that he has between the personality he adopts for himself and who he really is.

If Sandor Clegane is alive, which I believe he is, he's likely shed the Hound persona, which makes the EB's words true... that the Hound is dead. Real Gregor is dead and rose again as some kind of monster; conversely, the "monstrous" personality of the Hound is dead leaving only Sandor Clegane. It's almost like death reveals their true persons.

And I just want to throw my hat in the ring as someone who doesn't think that Sandor will be the Faith's champion in Cersei's trial, as he's very clearly still recovering from an injury that leaves him with a serious limp. The Faith isn't going to send a maimed person as their champion.

My personal theory (which will no doubt be WAY off base) is that once news gets out in the Vale about how sick SR is and that LF has his bastard daughter betrothed to the next in line, some one, probably Bronze Yohn, is going to engage the Elder Brother to help SR. The QI is not that far from the Vale and it was specifically mentioned that the EB can cure things that even a maester can't. I think Sandor will accompany him to the Vale.

You're really on to something there... I like it.

[Lance Lady]

Oh i definitely agree with you that Martin is NOT trying to please any fanbase. He has made that abundantly clear. But he doesn't just introduce a smoking gun and leave it there. There's more of an arc to his story imho. It's like the Wall. It's there. It's coming down.

Its definitely Sandor on the Quiet Isle. But its a very poetic ending for him to just stay there and finally have peace and quiet after being drafted into a life of violence and pain at the age of 8. Its one of the few happy endings so far in the story. And Sandor has already served an incredibly useful role in the series. He's probably the most honest, and dare I say noble, characters in the whole series. He is the Oscar Wilde and Olivier Athos of Westeros, in one.

Sandor is The Truth http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20Truth&defid=5877701.

[The Chequered Raven]

"The Hound" has died, but Sandor still lives...

I think he has to fight UnGregor to find his final peace. Not in Cersey's trial, the timeline will not fit for that, but I think UnGregor will win the trial, and Sandor has to face him later. As it happens, UnGregor is still dead, he can only "killed" by fire...

Go, Sandor, burn this bastard! ;-)

[Knight Of Winter]

If I recall correctly, Martin (sort of) confirmed Sandor is still alive by saying something like: It will be interesting to finish his story

Unfortunately, my efforts to find exact qoute to back this up were in vain.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This is one of those things where GRRM drops the clues and expects people to figure it out. He's probably not ever going to blurt out, "Sandor Clegane is the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle." Even so, is Sandor Clegane the gravedigger? Um, yes. Yes he is.