Heresy 38

[Little Wing]

Its his last chapter in ADwD, but as I mentioned in #28 he's seeing his father through the eyes of the Winterfell weirwood

So, what you're saying is Bran being able to do this outside of the weirwood throne, on his own is mince, not at all important?

[wolfmaid7]

I would like to weigh in with my thoughts on this....I haven't read any textural evidence that Bran can see through the weirwoods without being connected to the weirwoods...that being said, greensight is an ability. Jojen had greensight, which is the ability to see the future in dreams, but since he cannot warg, he is not a greenseer. I can't think of any text where Bran had a dream about the future, which would be the description of greensight, but he had what Jojen called "wolf dreams" which was actually just warging his wolf in his sleep.

@Black Crow...some thoughts from Heresy 37:

1) Ned didn't open his third eye in the Black Cell because he wasn't a greenseer. As you may already remember, greenseers have to also be wargs, but only 1 in a 1000 wargs is also a greenseer. He may have been a warg, or had the ability to be a warg, but without a direwolf he probably didn't realize he had that gift. On the other hand, if he had both gifts, warg and greenseer, he may not have been a believer since he has already been confirmed by Catelyn to be a disbeliever in signs, and since he's poo-poo'd Old Nan's stories, I'd have to say that he just doesn't believe in any of the magical stuff.

2) I agree that the dreamers Bran saw impaled may have been scare tactics to help him fly.

3) Yes, the Children "saved" the Last Hero from the White Walkers, but when humans say they accept Christ as their savior they are also "saved", so I think the definition of "saved" can be expanded to also include being raised from the dead.

@wolfmaid - "brothers and our bane" could also mean that the Children warged the giants and were ashamed. The Children may have been blackmailed into warging the giants in order to build the Wall, for instance.

Also, @woldmaid...I was thinking we could expand the winter season (wind element) to think about greenseers being able to fly, like Bran. And all the other crows and ravens that fly. If we think about winter that way, then this season is definitely short of flyers.

@alienarea...I'm thinking, not that Jon has to be resurrected, but that the Children have to allow themselves to actually die out. They created the White Walkers out of desperation, because they thought they had to do it in order to preserve balance, but they may now realize that if they can destroy magic, they themselves would be unnecessary as guardians of balance as long as the seasons were returned to normal.

I think with respect to the children Warging the Giants to build the wall definitely possible. In addition i like the bit about the GS/Wind aspect.I never thought about that but that little bit kind of have me thinking about the Storms of Hardome and the "dead things in the water attacking them."

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Thank you Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik for this from the last thread:

I hadn't noticed this before but this is another thing to add to this list of similarities b/w Bran and Arya. The Ghost of High Heart said that of her too.

It's probably worth noting that Bran was in the crypts when he reached out to Jon, which could explain the earth/death/stone smell. It does seem more significant with the darkness theme though.

[Little Wing]

It's probably worth noting that Bran was in the crypts when he reached out to Jon, which could explain the earth/death/stone smell. It does seem more significant with the darkness theme though.

Yeah, re-reading Jon's chapter where he re-tells his dreams to Sam, the last bit of his dreams is always everything getting darker and darker around him until he wants to scream - and that's when he wakes up. He also dreams of everyone being gone, even the ravens from the rookery and the stables are full of bones... I already thought Jon might have a bit of a prophetic gift manifested through his dreams, and this may be him seeing the aftermath of the sack of Winterfell...

Anyway, while on this re-read, I think the dragon dreams and Jon's crypt dreams are similar in that they serve to remind them who they are at a moment they seem to lose themselves in other "families" - Jon finally coming to recognize Sam and the rest of the gang as brothers, while telling himself he must forget about his Stark half-brothers and Dany becoming Dothraki.

[Stark@heart]

I think Bran is more than BR expected and soon Bran will figure that out and push his own (Stark / Wrath of Man) agenda.

BR is basing what Bran can do on what he was able to do. We've already seen Bran speak to and be heard by Ned in the past and Theon in the present, which was something BR was unable to do, according to the story he told Bran. Or maybe he was able to be heard and he's the one who drove Aerys mad? On purpose or by accident, those consequences are playing out now.

Bran needs to be his own man and I think his Starkness/ upbringing will see him through. How this will affect BR & the COTH plans will be part of the balance thing.

[Black Crow]

I was thinking about Wood dancers, do you guys thinks there´s a possibility that this line of CotF may control the trees and made them move? Like an Ent perhaps? Or maybe some fighting type of the CotF?

Gods no. Dancing and dancers are about fighting, cf: Syrio Forel the water dancer and his disparaging remarks about the heavy dancing of the Westerosi knights just for starters.

They're just the warriors in the woods with their slings and dragonglass weapons. A direct comparison in our world would be the Canadian Coureur de Bois - woods runners - and in that connection I have to say that the HBO version of AGoT prologue had a very Last of the Mohicans feel to it.

[Black Crow]

So, what you're saying is Bran being able to do this outside of the weirwood throne, on his own is mince, not at all important?

No the point is that people have been running around going wow! Bran is super powerful because he can "see" without using the weirwood net. On the contrary, he's doing exactly that. Bryn Blackwood never said he needed to be sitting on the weirwood chair to go looking, he just said that at first he would need to look through the weirwood eyes, but in time wouldn't be limited that way. And that's exactly what we've got. Bran is looking through the weirwood eyes, exactly as Bryn said he would.

[Little Wing]

Yes, he's doing exactly what BR said he would be able to do - but why is BR himself then tied to the weirwood throne if all greenseers can have visions without having to actually sit in the weirwood throne?

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Yes, he's doing exactly what BR said he would be able to do - but why is BR himself then tied to the weirwood throne if all greenseers can have visions without having to actually sit in the weirwood throne?

Sometimes a chair is just a chair. He's not so limber these days. Maybe the COTF should rig him some wheels and paint some flames on the side :D

Jokes aside Leaf mentions that the roots give him strength, but probably also keep him from leaving the chair. Not to mention his body is emaciated with bones sticking out in some places.

[armidil0]

Yes, he's doing exactly what BR said he would be able to do - but why is BR himself then tied to the weirwood throne if all greenseers can have visions without having to actually sit in the weirwood throne?

I imagined that BR was rooted to the throne to prolong his life.

Which brings us back to the never answered question of why Mel is, among Heretics, considered the end-all, be-all authority on the doctrine of the R'hllorists (aside from the Heretical reading of Benerro's "summer that never ends" comment as somehow being sinister when it's actually fairly standard apocalyptic and religious reward fare).

And which also glosses over any explanation of how three institutions, created in three different places, thousands of miles apart, at three different times, somehow have any sort of uniting factor other than a rather skewed and biased reading of one such institution's oath and another's prayers.

Every religion we have encountered have one thing in common. Ravens and Crows. Mel isn't the end all be all. Thats silly. But I don't like talking about R'Hllow or hte Old Gods as much anymore. I like talking about hte magical properties that the Seven might have. But off-topic.

[Little Wing]

I imagined that BR was rooted to the throne to prolong his life.

Yeah, I guess that explains it. I tend to think Bran will escape BR's fate when he realizes he can see stuff without the weirwood throne... but the question is - what is there for him on the outside to do? The power trip will probably keep him in the cave, for a while...

[nanother]

I think the weirwood throne is what helped to extend his life. Leaf says most if him already went to the wood, or something like that. So it's more than a chair, but might be more of a life support equipment.

So, perhaps BR would be able to see stuff without the throne, but not able to expand his life like he did?

[Stark@heart]

I think BR is doing things the way he was taught, he was summoned or brought to the cave and once there, ate the paste and melded to the tree, like all the others in the dark.

Bran does not need the tree ( or the dark?) and I think he'll leave before he too becomes "enthroned" or "ensnared"

If a Stark is gonna be wedded to a Weirtree, it will be the one in Winterfell's Godswood.

Hence, there is or must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

I think the weirwood throne is what helped to extend his life. Leaf says most if him already went to the wood, or something like that. So it's more than a chair, but might be more of a life support equipment.

So, perhaps BR would be able to see stuff without the throne, but not able to expand his life like he did?

Again, I don't think the chair itself has much significance. I think if he were sitting on the ground the roots would still eventually grow through him and he'd still have all his greenseer abilities. Bran can see through weirwoods with out the chair so we know that ability is not tied to it. Leaf even mentions that the weirwood gives Bloodraven strength and that he doesn't need to eat. The chair is probably more for our benefit as a visual. Showing parallels of Bran giving up his Lord's throne for a Greenseer's throne.

[Stark@heart]

Which just gave me a thought.

The Others were seen before the comet and the dragons came after. It's stated that the comet was a herald of the Dragons return.

Could the dying and death ( or near death) of the Guardian / Seer of the Winterfell Heart tree be what set the White Walkers in motion?

[Melifeather]

My thoughts about Ned's bones...if they're entombed in the crypts with an iron sword on top, his soul will be trapped and unable to fly.

Regarding the weirwood trees...I think they provide sustenance to Bloodraven.

Little Wing...if magic is destroyed, Bran might be released...that is if the Children realize that they should allow themselves to die out after the seasons return to normal.

[Little Wing]

Little Wing...if magic is destroyed, Bran might be released...that is if the Children realize that they should allow themselves to die out after the seasons return to normal.

Ah, I guess so... I expect I'll cry my way through the end of this series... and then some

:crying: :bawl:

[wolfmaid7]

Yes, he's doing exactly what BR said he would be able to do - but why is BR himself then tied to the weirwood throne if all greenseers can have visions without having to actually sit in the weirwood throne?

BR being on 'the throne" may have to do with his status at the moment. Throne in its non-literal sense speaks of authority and position.He is the GS for the moment so that is his seat.When he hands over the reigns so to speak he may move to the room where the others are. Bran may or may not choose to sit "that throne", as he may choose to leave that cave set up shop somewhere else(probably WF) .Or it could be a life support system as others have said.Just speculating.

[Lummel]

My thoughts about Ned's bones...if they're entombed in the crypts with an iron sword on top, his soul will be trapped and unable to fly...

interesting point, because The Ned's bones have been free since ACOK.

[Little Wing]

New glimpses of the show. HBO's vlog.

Oh, and... Mance! :D