Whom do you foresee Arya having to marry, if anyone at all?

[Roza Ahai]

But Arya spent most of this time together trying to kill him

She finally abandoned him.

[Lady's Secret]

She finally abandoned him.

She could have left him earlier. After the RW, didn't Sandor stop rolling her up in his horse blanket to keep her from running away in the night while he slept? I think she even mentioned in her POV that it didn't seem like the Hound cared if she ran off. She only abandoned him after she was sure he was going to die. From her perspective, she could have seen this as him abandoning her. I've thought for a while now that this may have given her a bit of a complex. Like everyone either leaves me or dies and not even the Hound could surive me for long.

I don't ship these two but I have this strange feeling that if they ever come face to face again, Arya would be happy he was alive and maybe feel a little guilty about leaving him. After all, his name did just fall off her "kill list" without her even realising it until much later.

I feel like Sandor has unfinished buisness with both Stark girls.

[Roza Ahai]

I don't ship these two but I have this strange feeling that if they ever come face to face again, Arya would be happy he was alive and maybe feel a little guilty about leaving him. After all, his name did just fall off her "kill list" without her even realising it until much later.

I feel like Sandor has unfinished buisness with both Stark girls.

Later she had some thoughts whether she should give him a final shot. It looks like she wasn't sure leaving him in a such bad condition was a good idea. Arya might be disappointed that Sandor "abandoned" her. IIRC she was very frustrated that people promised her to take to Winterfell & Riverran, and they all failed, "abandoned" her.

[ARYa_Nym]

If Arya is going to have healthy relationships in the future it's important that she understands that men like Sandor are not someone who cares for her. Someone who truly cares for her would not treat her that way. One of the most basic forms of respect is valuing someone's freedom. Sandor disrespected it in two ways by kidnapping her and by being amused at the thought her being married against her will to someone she wouldn't like.

I mentioned this is another thread but for Arya to have liked Sandor that is Stockholm Syndrome or captive bonding.

Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.^[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.^[3]

Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."^[4]

In order for Stockholm syndrome to occur in any given situation, at least three traits must be present:

• A severely uneven power relationship in which the captor dictates what the prisoner can and cannot do
  
• The threat of death or physical injury to the prisoner at the hands of the captor
  
• A self-preservation instinct on the part of the prisoner
  

http://health.howstu...m-syndrome1.htm

1. As time goes on, obedience alone may become less of a sure thing - the captor is under stress as well, and a change in his mood could mean harmful consequences to his prisoner. Figuring out what might set off her captor's violence so she can avoid those triggers becomes another survival strategy. In this way, she gets to know her captor.
   
2. A minor act of kindness on the part of the captor, which can include simply not killing the prisoner yet, positions the captor as the prisoner's savior, as "ultimately good," to quote young Anne Frank's famous characterization of the Nazis who ultimately led to her death. In the traumatic, life-threatening circumstances in which the prisoner finds herself, the slightest act of kindness - or the sudden absence of violence - seems a sign of friendship in an otherwise hostile, terrifying world, and the prisoner clings to it for dear life.
   
3. The captor slowly seems less threatening - more an instrument for survival and protection than one of harm. The prisoner undergoes what some call an act of self-delusion: In order to survive psychologically as well as physically - to lessen the unimaginable stress of the situation - the prisoner comes to truly believe that the captor is her friend, that he will not kill her, that in fact they can help each other "get out of this mess." The people on the outside trying to rescue her seem less like her allies. They are going to hurt this person who is protecting her from harm. The fact that this person is also the source of that potential harm gets buried in the process of self-delusion.
   

http://health.howstu...m-syndrome2.htm

I think her continuing to call him a monster after she left him and her saying that he didn't truly care about her means that she did not suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. She did not ultimately forget the true dynamic of their relationship. This is a good thing.

This is from AFFC:

When she escaped Harrenhal for Riverrun, Lem and Anguy and Tom o’ Sevens took her captive and dragged her to the hollow hill instead. Then the Hound had stolen her and dragged her to the Twins. Arya had left him dying by the river and gone ahead to Saltpans, hoping to take passage for Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, only . .

& tbh I could never understood why Arya leaving him to die is interpreted as something positive by so many in the fandom besides Sandor being woobified by fans and his relationship with females being downplayed or romanticized. Sandor is compared to a dog a lot. When your dog is in pain putting it down is a sign of caring because you don't want it to hurt anymore. You don't let it die slowly.

I think it's good that she doesn't care about him because it would be unhealthy and problematic if she did. Also, I think just because she didn't leave right away doesn't mean that she wanted to stay. There's an IRL case of a girl who was kidnapped and was critiqued for not leaving when the kidnappers left her alone in the house. However, I think they wait for the right time for them. They're afraid that something will go wrong like for instance Arya thinking she will drown because the current was too strong when she wanted to get away from. She also had no foreseeable other place to go to.

Captive bonding happens when they mistake a lack of abuse for kindness. It should be noted that just because physical abuse is not present it doesn't mean that there isn't any abuse. Sandor bringing up her mother doesn't negate that he was verbally and emotionally abusive towards her and that he also threatened her several times. It does not matter that he did not go through with it. I don't give Weese or Roose a pass either.

she lets Jaqen kiss her?

Yes .

"He laid a finger on her lips. "Three lives you shall have of me. No more, no less. Three and we are done. So a girl must ponder." He kissed her hair softly. "But not too long."

Here's artwork of it:

http://th06.devianta...ing-d3l5vq3.jpg

Oh and Arya is supposed to be 12 now but I'm not sure how close she is to 13.

[They see me R'hollin]

If Arya is going to have healthy relationships in the future it's important that she understands that men like Sandor are not someone who cares for her. Someone who truly cares for her would not treat her that way. One of the most basic forms of respect is valuing someone's freedom. Sandor disrespected it in two ways by kidnapping her and by being amused at the thought her being married against her will to someone she wouldn't like.

I mentioned this is another thread but for Arya to have liked Sandor that is Stockholm Syndrome or captive bonding.

http://health.howstu...m-syndrome1.htm

http://health.howstu...m-syndrome2.htm

I think her continuing to call him a monster after she left him and her saying that he didn't truly care about her means that she did not suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. She did not ultimately forget the true dynamic of their relationship. This is a good thing.

This is from AFFC:

& tbh I could never understood why Arya leaving him to die is interpreted as something positive by so many in the fandom besides Sandor being woobified by fans and his relationship with females being downplayed or romanticized. Sandor is compared to a dog a lot. When your dog is in pain putting it down is a sign of caring because you don't want it to hurt anymore. You don't let it die slowly.

I think it's good that she doesn't care about him because it would be unhealthy and problematic if she did. Also, I think just because she didn't leave right away doesn't mean that she wanted to stay. There's an IRL case of a girl who was kidnapped and was critiqued for not leaving when the kidnappers left her alone in the house. However, I think they wait for the right time for them. They're afraid that something will go wrong like for instance Arya thinking she will drown because the current was too strong when she wanted to get away from. She also had no foreseeable other place to go to.

Captive bonding happens when they mistake a lack of abuse for kindness. It should be noted that just because physical abuse is not present it doesn't mean that there isn't any abuse. Sandor bringing up her mother doesn't negate that he was verbally and emotionally abusive towards her and that he also threatened her several times. It does not matter that he did not go through with it. I don't give Weese or Roose a pass either.

Yes .

Here's artwork of it:

http://th06.devianta...ing-d3l5vq3.jpg

Oh and Arya is supposed to be 12 now but I'm not sure how close she is to 13.

I wish I could like this. I agree with it all. I always got the impression that she truly just left The Hound to die slowly of his wounds rather than honour him for a short death. At the very least she may have wanted him to survive by leaving him but I don't think at any point she felt affection for him, definitely not Stockholm Syndrome. She's not like Sansa or the Sandor fangirls who see the "beauty" underneath. She thought he was a monster.

Also, how did I miss that Jaqen quote? I hope those two meet in the future... although I never understood why he was so kind to her. Why did he feel the need to kiss her?

[Scarlet Seastar]

I didn't read all 10 pages of this topic, so forgive me if some things have been pointed out.

First: During their time together, Arya had a crush on Gendry without even realizing it. When they're taken by the Brotherhood and they stop at an inn, a girl, I don't remember her name, made "an offer" to Gendry and Arya and Gendry had a fight, after that and she thought that he should go to her and so on. And Gendry became increasingly cold to Arya after her talk with Ned Dayne. If that's not jealousy, shown on both sides from Gendry and Arya, I don't know what it is.

Second: When you want to think about Arya marrying anyone, you have to first take into account her position at the moment: She is determined to get rid of her Arya side and become no one, although we all know she's fooling herself and not the Kindly Man, he seems to be willing to let her continue on her path, even if she doesn't fully let go of her Arya side. My point is that there is simply no way Arya could marry Edric Storm[i mean come on, logistics and opportunity and luck are in question here] and Trystan Martell-I don't believe this is possible too, simply because I know that Arya will not be forced into marriage, if she ever goes back to herself to even want that, and since I don't remember ever seeing Trystan Martel "on screen" in the books, I don't have any reason why Arya would even like him.

Also, Arya would never like Edric because he's been raised a pompus little bastard lordling who thought he had the world at his feet simply because Varys sent him gifts each year in the name of Robert.

Which brings me back to Edric Dayne and Gendry. I believe that Arya liked Gendry well enough simply because he was kind, but didn't seem to engaged by him, and I believe that Edric told her the story of Wylla simply to get her attention more.

But, still, Arya's most romantic connection ever has been with Gendry, and I must say that it makes a nice parallel to the Robert-Lyanna thing that never managed to happen, for reason yet known-unconfirmed. The parallel-though I am not very sure that is how I want to call it, [may be a connection?] to Robert and Lyanna is this:

Arya resembles Lyanna in almost everything: looks and personality.

Gendry resembles Robert, but only in looks. He seems to be the opposite of Robert, and though there is the reason of his upbringing for this difference, still, Gendry could have taken the girl's offer at the inn, but he didn't. And when we see him in Feast, he seems depressed for some reason[i believe he thinks he failed Arya somehow, something that she thought about too] and seems determined to make up for it by doing whatever he's doing. In a way, he's the Robert Lyanna wanted, and thus makes the perfect match for Arya. Oh, and I also believe that when Gendry heard Arya and Edric talk, he kind of realized that with his status as a bastard, he could never really have anything with her, and that was why he started acting all cold towards her. Of course, that didn't matter to Arya, but still: didn't.The Arya before Braavoos might think about marrying someone, but the No-one-Arya wouldn't think about it at all.

Which is why I am still having some hope about her and Gendry, but I know the possibility of that happening are 0.001%. But the other 99.999% go with the fact that Arya will not marry anyone. Although I believe that only three creatures have the ability to bring back Arya Stark in full force: Jon, Nymeria and Gendry.

As for the Hound-she didn't develop Stockholm's Syndrome while she was with him. The changes after the RW in their relationship were simply because neither had hope for a better morning. I refer to those pages often to my friends as existentialism at its best.

And Jaquen is a complete mystery, and if he really is Pate, than I don't think they will meet again. But then again, may be the Alchemist is not one of the FM, and Jaquen is Izembaro.

[TinHouse]

Who is there to make Arya HAVE to marry anyone?

Bran, nor Jon would ever make Arya marry anybody. They may ask if it is a family that would benefit the Starks, but Arya seems to me as someone who will grow up very emotionally stunted, for good reasons of course. I don't see her taking any sort of interest in a marriage. Ayra being so obsessed with revenge and so ok with murder is not exactly a good thing trauma wise.

Also I really wish people would stop comparing Gendry and Arya to Robert and Lyanna.

Completely ignoring the fact that Lyanna seemed to have zero interest in marrying Robert, and probably didn't spend much time conversing with him, as Arya did while traveling with Gendry. Honestly people...Robert and Lyanna were not two star crossed lovers despite his delusions lol.

[ghost of Harrenhall]

This may seem a little vindictive but I really want Lady Bolton to meet her dear husband, and I don’t think anyone will force her to marry again after that!

I don't really see her marrying anyone, but I can see her, roaming around westeros with Gendry, living in sin.

[Roza Ahai]

he's the Robert Lyanna wanted,

How do we know Lyanna wanted any Robert? Arya had a crush on Gendry, but that was a childish crush. She was only 9-10 years old. Gendry is a narrow-minded boy interested in polishing helms. Would Lyanna have an affection to Robert whose interest is only in forging swords?

[Angmar]

When she's old enough, let her meet again with Jaqen H'ghar...Now that would be an interesting relationship. ;) :wub:

[juanml82]

Arya is eleven when she said to her father 'No, that's not me' or something along those lines. She has changed a lot, and will continue to change. She will fall in love eventually and she can understand the need for an arranged marriage.

But the thing is, what's going to happen with the FM. If she remains with them, I don't think FM marry. And if she doesn't, she's likely to be hunted for the rest of her life, unless she can kill them all. So my guess is that she never goes back to being, publicly, Arya Stark. Either Jeyne will take her place, with the FM being aware she isn't the real rogue/deserter/traitor FM, or Arya Stark is announced/believed to be dead in public.

And by disregarding her nobility, she's free to marry whoever she wants. Which doesn't mean she'll marry a crush she had when she was eleven.

[ARYa_Nym]

What what what? This sounds very intriguing. Do you have a link?

(If true, I kind of like the symmetry of Rhaegar "killing" Lyanna--well, not murdering her, but setting off a chain of events that ended with her death--and "Lyanna" killing "Rhaegar.") I think we're all agreed Arya's going to kill someone important. It could easily be Aegon. (I've seen Tommen floated as well, but I don't believe GRRM would have Arya kill an innocent child. That seems to be the Moral Event Horizon in this series.) I suspect whomever Arya does kill as her "big kill," it will be someone no reader will miss (Cersei, Aegon, Varys, etc.).

Oh, sorry I missed this comment.

Here's the theory. It first started because tze thought it was significant that Arya and Jaqen kill with not just a poisoned coin but a poisoned dragon coin. & that ties into rumors of how the maesters killed off the dragons through poison.

http://asoiaf.wester...60#entry4036049

Info was found before that she might be set up as a foil for Varys.

http://asoiaf.wester...2/#entry3964025

Arya is the only one who spies on Varys successfully. Varys is the Master of Whisperers. Arya is currently in Braavos where:

Sometimes she learned three new japes or three new riddles, or tricks of this trade or the other. And every so

often, she would learn some secret. Braavos was a city made for secrets, a city of fogs and masks and whispers."

He spies and gathers information. The KM has Arya learning to gather info when he asks for three new things. Varys sees without being seen. He's a lurker in the shadows. A lover of disguise. This applies to Arya.

A post on how mummer training can relate to the game of thrones.

http://asoiaf.wester...2/#entry3980807

There is other stuff like Arya calling Varys a wizard and asking someone how a wizard is killed. & there is some textual reasons to believe that she may see Illyrio in Pentos. She already has motive to kill him because of the convo she saw and heard in AGoT.

Tze said:

At first, Varys is joking with Illyrio about the mere idea of Varys as a wizard, which isn't something you'd expect from someone who really was brutally mutilated by an actual wizard. And then, it's made clear that Illyrio considers Varys's "juggling" to be the equivalent of "sorcery"---and when Varys says he'll do what he can, he asks for gold and birds, not the assistance of magic-users from Essos, and not any magical aids or tools. By calling Varys a "sorcerer" and a "wizard", Illyrio is actually praising Varys's powers of manipulation and bullshit---he's not attributing any actual magical powers to him (nor does Varys claim any himself); he's saying that Varys's mundane "powers" of scheming are so wonderful that they're the closest thing possible to magic--not that they're actually magic. Arya believing Varys to be a wizard here seems meant to be ironic, as Varys is no wizard but Arya---skinchanging, facechanging Arya---will actually eventually become a "wizard" herself.

But Varys's whole story reminds me of the backgrounds Arya kept making up for herself in Braavos----some elements of truth, but wrapped around a core of lies. What's the lie here?

http://asoiaf.wester...20#entry3802658

So basically the theory goes that that her first professional kill was foreshadowing on who she will later kill. Notably the KM told her not to kill the guards but she wanted to. So this time Arya may kill the guards Illyrio and Varys and then poison a dragon which would be Aegon in this case.

[Roza Ahai]

Arya is eleven when she said to her father 'No, that's not me' or something along those lines. She has changed a lot, and will continue to change. She will fall in love eventually and she can understand the need for an arranged marriage.

But the thing is, what's going to happen with the FM. If she remains with them, I don't think FM marry. And if she doesn't, she's likely to be hunted for the rest of her life, unless she can kill them all. So my guess is that she never goes back to being, publicly, Arya Stark. Either Jeyne will take her place, with the FM being aware she isn't the real rogue/deserter/traitor FM, or Arya Stark is announced/believed to be dead in public.

And by disregarding her nobility, she's free to marry whoever she wants. Which doesn't mean she'll marry a crush she had when she was eleven.

Agree. :agree: . Except of one point. She might become Arya Stark if FM stop to exist. She doesn't necessary kill them all, some kind of disater might happen to FM.

[ARYa_Nym]

The FM definitely can't marry and the female recruits can never have children either.

The KM told her that she will be no one's wife and that she can't bring life into the world and be a FM.

[Roza Ahai]

I liked the theory about the poisoned dragon coin. Who would be behind this murder?

[rmholt]

That character on Fargo married to the police chief. Norm Gunderson. That guy. The guy who paints ducks in stamp competitions while she goes out there and takes on the world. Not an Emmon Frey. Tyrion or Jaime would be good matches if they werent so old. I thought it was so sweet when Gendry was having a puberty moment with her at Acorn Hall. She wont be able to love until she replaces the hole in her heart however. I like to think she will get back with Jon and heal.

ETA: NOT AS A LOVER THOUGH. :ack: To get back to being herself.

[rmholt]

The FM definitely can't marry and the female recruits can never have children either.

The KM told her that she will be no one's wife and that she can't bring life into the world and be a FM.

She doesnt have to remain in the program. Even Nights Watch have a trial period before they say the vows. She is still given the opportunity to leave at any time.

[rmholt]

She could have left him earlier. After the RW, didn't Sandor stop rolling her up in his horse blanket to keep her from running away in the night while he slept? I think she even mentioned in her POV that it didn't seem like the Hound cared if she ran off. She only abandoned him after she was sure he was going to die. From her perspective, she could have seen this as him abandoning her. I've thought for a while now that this may have given her a bit of a complex. Like everyone either leaves me or dies and not even the Hound could surive me for long.

I don't ship these two but I have this strange feeling that if they ever come face to face again, Arya would be happy he was alive and maybe feel a little guilty about leaving him. After all, his name did just fall off her "kill list" without her even realising it until much later.

I feel like Sandor has unfinished buisness with both Stark girls.

Hmmm perhaps a little sanctuary in the Gift with Sansa, the Hound, and Arya. They might even go off on adventures like Terry Pratchetts witches. They'd be more awesome than the Kingswood Brotherhood or the Brotherhood without Banners.

[naik2902]

she will marry Nymeria.

[whitedog42]

Gendry and Arya will settle the Queen's Gift.