Tywin in Harrenhal vs Roose

[LordStoneheart]

Again, more for book fans who also like the show...

I didn't like the changes as much as anyone else, but it just dawned on me why they probably changed Arya's storyline in S2.

Weese was a small character, easily discarded. But Tywin's appearence and Arya being his assistant? Totally out of the blue eyebrow raise to me. I liked it and disliked it. Their on-screen chemistry was amazing. I don't think Martin himself could've did that situation better. That being said, I was disappointed I didn't get to see Weasel Soup when the northern hostages were brought in. But I also remember when I read that part thinking "why didn't Arya go to him?"

Now I realize that would've been the biggest mistake of her life. Roose turned out to a snake in pink clothing.

So I dawed on me that the writers probably chose to put Tywin in the show so that Roose wasn't associated with the enemy just yet. It was to preserve the surprise of his betrayal and connetion to the Red Wedding. I've also heard the same thing with why Iwan Rheon's character is just named "Boy." If he's Ramsey, they don't want to show Roose's son is quite evil.

This might be a duh moment for me if others have suggested the same thing.

Thoughts?

[western wolf]

Yeah, I didn't like Tywin naming her cupbearer either. I get why they did it-it would have been too complicated to do it the way the book did-but man. In the series, Arya played Tywin. And despite the numerous clues, some of which Tywin noticed, he still couldn't figure out who she was. Their acting was superb, and I liked it for that.

[Mr Hodor]

I wanted to see weasel soup too but am ok without it too....

one thing that concerns me is how it will affect the Jamie storyline. Jamie meets Roose and his hand is patched up in Harrenhal. Will they show him someplace else..and will they include Vargo Hoat.

i want to see Jamie saying Thappires.

[No one Stark]

I liked the tywin and arya connection as time went on in the movie series. I was really looking forward to the arya and tickler death though :(

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

I think Charles Dance and Maisie Williams did a marvelous job together. If we were to look at these added scenes as just scenes on a show, then they were brilliant. LordStoneheart, I also agree with you about what you said regarding the show writers wanting to surprise the show!audience by making the RW more shocking and out of the blue. There's also the time limit to consider when adapting a book to a show or film.

However, like every book reader, I was very disappointed in certain aspects because those scenes took away:

• The fact that Arya survived Harrenhal by being COMMON. For the first time in her life (and a first for the reader too, given how we were always given noble!POVs) she was nobody, and that's how she remained alive. If she were really as sharp, quirky and outspoken as she was on the show, (especially to the face of the lord she was serving) it would not bode well for her.
  
• The weasel soup and the Northern hostages, as the OP mentioned.
  
• Introduction to Roose Bolton's character (which we were able to build up on as we got to ADWD) which was very unsettling from the beginning. I'm aware that show =/= books and the books will always be better, but I'm still disappointed about the lack of subtlety of Roose in the show. "In my family, we say 'a naked man holds few secrets, a flayed man none'". Roose Bolton doesn't just come up and admit that he flays people, D&D. He just says "it's the wolves he means to hunt."
  

All these things considered, the writers didn't do a DISMAL job. But of course I prefer the book version.

[Frank White]

..and will they include Vargo Hoat.

i want to see Jamie saying Thappires.

Filming rumors and reports

Season three production is rolling along this month, with filming in Croatia and Northern Ireland happening simultaneously for the last week. The schedule should get even more hectic when Game of Thrones arrives in Morocco to begin shooting on October 13th. With all this activity, some interesting sightings and rumors have surfaced. There are spoilers in some of these rumors, but those will all be placed beneath the cut.

•The most interesting report comes from two WiC sources, who confirm that Noah Taylor has been cast as Locke. The character Locke is described as filling a similar function to the mercenary leader Vargo Hoat in the A Song of Ice and Fire books, but does not have Vargo’s memorable lisp. Locke will play a key role in Jaime and Brienne’s story next season.

•We’ve heard that we will see the character of Steelshanks, albeit in a small role. Steelshanks also plays a part in Jaime Lannister’s journey.

....

*There will be detailed spoilers for season three/A Storm of Swords beneath the Read More cut, so proceed with caution!*

• The bear pit scene from the third book has been filmed. Noah Taylor was present for this, as was Nikolaj Coster-Waldau wearing a bandage-style sleeve over his lower arm to convey that Jaime’s lost his hand. It appears that the removal of the sword hand occurred before the bear pit, as in the book.

  
  

[TheKitttenGuard]

I wanted to see weasel soup too but am ok without it too....

one thing that concerns me is how it will affect the Jamie storyline. Jamie meets Roose and his hand I'd patched up in Harrenhal. Will they show him someplace else..and will they include Vargo Hoat.

i want to see Jamie saying Thappires.

Vargo Hoat and the bloody mummers are out. Hoat will become Locke. Others mention that a Locke in the book was a Bolton bannerman and some of the B.T.S shots appear to point to Jamie and Brienne running into them during their travels.

I think one manner can be Harrenhall can be CGI heavy so their it can be a cost choice.

On Tywin/Arya resolution I still want to see what happen in S3. My thought through their interactions was that Tyrion withheld informing him. I will be disappoint if they just leave it a loose end but I am still in wait and see on this.

Edit: My bad on John, the actor is John Taylor. Guess I subconscious yearn for a charcter name after a 17th century English Philosopher.

[Brienne Of Bombay]

If I'm not mistaken Vargo Hoat has already been cast.. It would be very disappointing if he wasn't included.

[blackwing]

Maybe Tywin was inserted for Roose also because they got such a great and known actor for his part, I feel that a lot of changes regarding Tywin are due to this. Still, I liked it a lot. I try hard to avoid spoilers and therefore don't know, but I would think that Ramsay and the whole flaying business will not be in the show and that only Roose will be there to be the northern villain. I'm so so much looking forward to this third season! :)

[Cruella]

John Locke? So how's it going to go?

"You need to have faith, Jaime. Guys, cut off his hand so he can see how miraculous this world is!"

"Dude, what's wrong with you?"

"Don't call me dude!!!... Anyway, go to the Isle of Faces, it will grow out again. Or not".

Or

"We're all born a blank state, Jaime. Neither of us were inherently evil, we are what our circumstances made of us. And what they made of me, is a guy who cannot help cutting people's hands off".

I mean, seriously, of all the names in the book?

[RenlyIsNotRight]

The interaction between Arya and Tywin was more intense and all around more memorable than the interaction between Arya and Roose, but the book still trumps it overall for Jaqens final name with the Northern hostages and all that.

[LordStoneheart]

John Locke? So how's it going to go?

"You need to have faith, Jaime. Guys, cut off his hand so he can see how miraculous this world is!"

"Dude, what's wrong with you?"

"Don't call me dude!!!... Anyway, go to the Isle of Faces, it will grow out again. Or not".

Or

"We're all born a blank state, Jaime. Neither of us were inherently evil, we are what our circumstances made of us. And what they made of me, is a guy who cannot help cutting people's hands off".

I mean, seriously, of all the names in the book?

I thought I heard that they changed the Others to White Walkers because they didn't want fans to associate with Lost... then they choose the name of the most popular and annoying Lost character????

NO.

Although I do like the name White Walkers better. More dark and doom-ish for some reason...

[Lady Piper]

To me it seemed like they cut a lot of Arya's story with Wease and Weasel soup just for brevity's sake. While I don't like the story being cut the scenes with Arya and Tywin were some of my favorite in S2.

[True_lord_of_york]

I actually despised s2 of game of thrones. I thought they absolutely shamed the book CoK in comparison. That being said though the parts with Tywin and arya were so awesome I wish they were actually part of the book series

[Maester Tormund]

I think they made it Arya/Tywin for a few reasons.

1.) The two had awesome on screen chemistry.

2.) when reading I didn't get why Arya didn't just say "Hey Roose, it's me Arya!" And that was WITH knowing Arya's internal dilemma.

3.) To make the RW more dramatic. Roose is now being set up as Robb's right hand man in the field and his second in command. It will make his betrayal that much more shocking.

[Breastplate Stretcha]

I think they made it Arya/Tywin for a few reasons.

1.) The two had awesome on screen chemistry.

2.) when reading I didn't get why Arya didn't just say "Hey Roose, it's me Arya!" And that was WITH knowing Arya's internal dilemma.

3.) To make the RW more dramatic. Roose is now being set up as Robb's right hand man in the field and his second in command. It will make his betrayal that much more shocking.

I think #3 was the best reason for them to do this. Those who haven't read the books or had it spoiled are really in for a shock.

I can't wait for the reactions.

[NicciTarg]

I enjoyed the Tywin/Arya scenes a lot. He told her more than I would have thought. Nothing important, very mundane information, but he actually engaged her in conversation. I realize that he was probably trying to trip her up to get information, but I think he soon realized that would be hard to do. He could see her intelligence and I think he respected that.

Charles Dance made me like Tywin Lannister and I was sorry for his departure from the story (for just a little while).

I did miss the Bolton scenes though. That was when the weirdo vibes started to come out.

[Tagganaro]

ugh...seriously....No Vargo Hoat but now a character named Locke? Like every single person won't think of Lost right away when they see that. If I hadn't lost all my faith in the show runners pulling this off from the shitshow that was Season 2, this might push it over the edge. Why change something that works perfectly fine in the books for some hackneyed derivative character creation? Reminds me of Talisa/Jeyne Poole and Asha/Yara and 1000 other things that make no sense on the show.

As for the OP, I thought to begin with Arya/Tywin scenes were awesome because they were 2 great actors and characters put together. But it quickly became clear that nothing was actually happening during these scenes, and for the life of me I couldn't tell you one thing of import that I remember from any of these scenes past "Maisie Williams is a brat and Charles Dance can't help but like her spunky attitude".

To spend essentially all of our time in Harrenhall with Arya being a servant to Tywin is a gross modification of her entire story arc, and quite frankly boring as hell compared to Weasel Soup/Roose Bolton. But yeah, it completely undermines Arya's character growth to not go into any detail about the horror show that was daily life in Harrenhall and the ensuing chaos of Weasel Soup. No Tickler, little to no Gregor Clegane, and now no Vargo Hoat either? What's next, Arya doesn't actually kill people for the FM but just spies on them or something? Ridiculous.

[TheKitttenGuard]

ugh...seriously....No Vargo Hoat but now a character named Locke? Like every single person won't think of Lost right away when they see that. If I hadn't lost all my faith in the show runners pulling this off from the shitshow that was Season 2, this might push it over the edge. Why change something that works perfectly fine in the books for some hackneyed derivative character creation? Reminds me of Talisa/Jeyne Poole and Asha/Yara and 1000 other things that make no sense on the show.

As for the OP, I thought to begin with Arya/Tywin scenes were awesome because they were 2 great actors and characters put together. But it quickly became clear that nothing was actually happening during these scenes, and for the life of me I couldn't tell you one thing of import that I remember from any of these scenes past "Maisie Williams is a brat and Charles Dance can't help but like her spunky attitude".

To spend essentially all of our time in Harrenhall with Arya being a servant to Tywin is a gross modification of her entire story arc, and quite frankly boring as hell compared to Weasel Soup/Roose Bolton. But yeah, it completely undermines Arya's character growth to not go into any detail about the horror show that was daily life in Harrenhall and the ensuing chaos of Weasel Soup. No Tickler, little to no Gregor Clegane, and now no Vargo Hoat either? What's next, Arya doesn't actually kill people for the FM but just spies on them or something? Ridiculous.

Their could be a little P.C going on with Hoat thpeaking with his lisp. There is also a difference between reading the lisp and having to hear it.

Some very complex events that occurred in the book can be outright confusing on the show. Going back to the original intended pilot and how people gof very confused when they started to flashback to Rickon/Brandon execution and people did not what was going on. Their is an excellent chance those who show-only will be very confused on why Arya is still hiding her identity after Bolton and all come in. It is not something that can be very cleary explained without people knowing that Bolton will be going against Robb and the producers did not want to do it.

Harrenhall's horror were more background after the pens and rat bucket no question.

I will not be quick to say just because an event did not happening when it did in the book does not mean it will never happen.

To nitpick Tickler was in he just became Jaqen first victim. Considering the actor who replace Cowan I was fine with limiting him (so hope they Cowan back next year for the epic duel). With the rest have to see, the producers admitted they slowed the arc on purpose.

[Wynter Manderly]

well i did like the Arya/Tywin interaction in the show. but honestly what sucks when they compressed the entire scene at harrenhal to that is that, according to the show, while Arya had 3 names to give to Jaqen, Tywin was present the whole time. You would think she could have given his name as he was the head of the family who took her father's head. yeah pun :laugh:

In the books, Tywin left harrenhal, so its understandable why Arya failed to name him.