Jon Snow: King in the North or King in the South?

[oprahnoodlemantra]

I think the WHOLE realm knew about the incest and believed it but the other Kingdoms kept their mouths shut as if they made it aware that they believed the incest then Cersei would condemn them as traitors to the Realm and stripe them of their titles.

And if someone who is well respected told the Realm about Jon's real parents, the Realm may believe them, or if Howland Reed told someone, maybe on his death bed, that might have more of a chance of people believing the theory

Howland doesn't have any proof though. If he could just say anything and have the whole realm believe it then he's the most powerful man in the world and it's a crime that he's been hidden all this time. Not everyone knows about the ToJ so even if Howland Reed were to recount the events to a crowd of a bajillion people it's still highly doubtful that everyone would just believe it.

Jon doesn't have a claim anyway because the Targaryens lost their right to the throne when the Baratheons took it by right of conquest. If GRRM could come up with a way for the realm to be given good proof of Jon's parentage then Aegon could take the throne which would make Jon his heir.

Having said that, I find it highly unlikely that a whole entire realm full of millions of people would support someone like Jon, who was believed to be a bastard for years, based on stories. Maybe someone will invent a Westerosi version of a DNA test.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

It goes completely against their Stark-ness

What do you mean by "against their Stark-ness"? The Starks were kings of the north and kings of winter. How is that different from ruling on the Iron throne?

[MotherAnduin]

Jon is going to take Quorin's advice that the fate of the realm is more important than his honor.

He will therefore accept Robb's will naming him the King in the North.

THEN

Rickon will be revealed and Jon's identity as Rhaegar's son will be revealed.

THEN

Jon will give Winterfell back to Rickon and take up the Iron Throne

THEN

Jon will lead the Seven Kingdoms in the War of the Dawn

THEN

Jon will die, the realm will break up for good and Rickon will continue as the King in the North at the end of the series.

Bittersweet result. The End.

I like how you say "and take the Iron throne!" Nevermind that he doesn't have enough men to take the throne and there are a few armies battling in the South. Yes, they will welcome Jon to take the throne. There is every indication that Jon is the new king in the North. Him sitting the throne from this position will be a major jumping the shark moment for me.

[Nausicaä]

King of Winter.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

King of the First Men. (Kingdon that includes the North, the Vale, the Riverlands, Iron Isles and Beyond the Wall)

[Golden&Crimson]

Neither.

He will be the late Lord Commander of the Night`s Watch, warged in Ghost..

The King of the Seven Kingdoms, ruling the North, Riverlands, Iron Islands, Vale, Westerlands, Reach, Stormlands, Dorne and Crownlands, from the Iron Throne, will be Stannis.

[Darkest_Knight_Watch]

Somehow I have the feeling that, in the end, when all is said and done, that The Iron Throne will be irrelivent and that the seat of power will be in the north. Thus making all the war and death in the attempt to seize the Iron Throne all the more ironic.

...but then I could be completely wrong ;)

[Golden&Crimson]

One thing i would like to see, is Martin never reveal clearly the true parents of Jon, and the story ending without we know if his father was Ned, Rhaegar, Tormund or Hodor!

That would be great! :devil:

PS: that, and no more siliness around an independent northern kingdom, an united Seven Kingdoms ruled from the Iron Throne.

[lady m]

Having said that, I find it highly unlikely that a whole entire realm full of millions of people would support someone like Jon, who was believed to be a bastard for years, based on stories. Maybe someone will invent a Westerosi version of a DNA test.

I don't think anyone can predict what type of following the man who has led, and if he survives won, the war to stop the ice zombie apocalypse. I don't think most people will be quite as concerned with his bloodlines at that point. And that is how people make unusual claims or create a kingship.

[Sofia Aillard]

And in so doing, Jon would prove himself worthier than any other candidate for any throne throughout ASoIaF: he doesn't wear a crown to satisfy his ego (Joffrey), to replace an old regime (Robert) or for justice (Stannis), or for his love of the idea of being king (Renly) or because he's the rightful heir (Dany/'Aegon'), not for his country's return to 'glory' (Balon) or his bannermen's demands (Robb) - Jon would become king because the people needed him to.

:bowdown:

I guess knowing his full history (if ever he gets to know it, and of course, considering R + L = J to be true) being a Targ would only make him better his sense of "belonging". And it would make him even more respectful of Ned's (Starks?) honorable way of being (duty to the people and all that).

Anyway, to give my two cents to the OP, I think Jon will be king of the South, since the war will be against the "true" Northerners, the WWs.

[Corvo Attano]

Jon can never sit on any throne, not in the north, not in king's landing, not anywhere. He devoted his life to The Watch. Once you say the oath, you must never abandon The Wall, unless you want to have your head removed from your shoulders. They hold honor in high regard in the north, If he abandoned the Watch the north would never accept him as king. If Jon's survival means that he becomes any sort of king, then I hope he's dead. Jon becoming the king in the south would be about the worst possible thing to happen. His story should have no political involvement whatsoever, and should only concern The Watch and The Others. If he does turn out to be a Targ, so be it. Aemon was a Targ, and once he joined The Watch nobody tried to crown him.

[Varysfan]

Jon can never sit on any throne, not in the north, not in king's landing, not anywhere. He devoted his life to The Watch. Once you say the oath, you must never abandon The Wall, unless you want to have your head removed from your shoulders. They hold honor in high regard in the north, If he abandoned the Watch the north would never accept him as king. If Jon's survival means that he becomes any sort of king, then I hope he's dead. Jon becoming the king in the south would be about the worst possible thing to happen. His story should have no political involvement whatsoever, and should only concern The Watch and The Others. If he does turn out to be a Targ, so be it. Aemon was a Targ, and once he joined The Watch nobody tried to crown him.

Death releases them from their vow, and I think Jon does die before Melisandre revives him, so this would certainly be a loophole!

[Zman1863]

Death releases them from their vow, and I think Jon does die before Melisandre revives him, so this would certainly be a loophole!

Jon won't take advantage of a loophole to get out of the NW. I don't think he will consider the attempt on his life as releasing him from his NW vows even if the group's leaders have essentially kicked him out. After all, its Jon who has the best interests of the purpose the NW serves at heart. He's still the rightful Lord Commander. Some people assume that once the threat of the Others has been averted, the NW will cease to exist. If the realm has been permanently saved from the Others and the truce with the Wildlings holds, the NW's mission will have been fulfilled and they can dissolve. That is the more likely possibility of Jon's opening to take a crown. But it's not a given. Who's to say that the Others will be completely defeated? Perhaps the victory will be such that they are just abated again, or perhaps uncertainly about whether the Others still exist will necessitate keeping a NW active on the wall. If the watch still exists, I think Jon will ultimately keep to his vows like Aemon did and stand aside for Daenerys.

But that isn't really a result I would be happy about. An ideal monarch is bound to serve the people they reign over. Yet the only people in Westeros who are bound to serve the realm as a whole are also the only ones who have to swear not to take a crown.

[Teal'c]

The seven kingdoms and Beyond the Wall = master of both worlds.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

The seven kingdoms and Beyond the Wall = master of both worlds.

That is way better than my choice.

But his seat has to be in the North

[Sun]

Jon will not rule.

[bemused]

I know I'm not alone in wanting to see the NW vows decoded or debunked. I don't have time to search and link threads right now , but there has been some discussion on this.

When Sam passes the Black gate , he only recites the "I am" portions of the oath to prove he's a brother of the NW. This satisfies The Gate. The "I am " parts seem more antique / poetic in their language , which indicate ( to me) that they are closely tied to the original magic of the wall , and probably the only parts that count in opposing the Others.

The "I will" parts ( ..take no wife ,father no children , seek no glory , win no crown..etc.) all seem to be politically motivated additions made to suit the rulership of the Seven Kingdoms ...and from a political point of view , they're practical enough , as long as all sides keep up their end of the bargain..But as the 7 kingdoms have not kept their up for some time , the whole political aspect was doomed to eventual breakdown.

And now the 7 kingdoms are in flux and likely will not settle back into the same old power structure... Ironically , many of the wildlings may be more willing to hew to those core "I am" tenets than some members of the Watch , without having taken any vow.

I suspect it won't matter one bit if someone puts a crown on Jon's head , or if he marries and fathers children , insofar as " remaining true " to the wall and the magic is concerned. He's commited to remaining watchful ,trying to warn people, rally them to the cause and defending the realms of men.

[Archangel of Winterfell]

What could happen is if Jon is proven to be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and depending on who sits on the Iron Throne in the final book, Jon goes to King's Landing to at least take the Iron Throne from the Lannisters, if just to get revenge for the Starks. He gets there, and a battle ensues for the Iron Throne. Jon wins, Cersei dies, Sansa is returned to Jon, and Tyrion and Tommen return to Casterly Rock. Eventually, Jon finds Arya. Now that Jon is effectively the High King, he decides to destroy the Iron Throne, he declares that there will be four kingdoms in Westeros that will be independent. The North, which Jon will rule over, the South, ruled by Stannis Baratheon, the East, which Jon could give to Daenerys, and the West, ruled by Tyrion. Jon returns to Winterfell with Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon. He discards the "Snow" surname and finally becomes Jon Stark.

I apologize if this may not add up. I'm still in the process of reading the books.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The North/Riverlands/Vale in some combination, or nothing. Not the Iron Throne, because it won't exist.

[mindchap]

Jon is one of those few characters who care more about the actual people than that damnable chair. He's going to do whatever saves and protects the most lives. That's one of the greatest things about his character he doesn't have that arrogant "that belongs to me because so and so died" attitude. Those best suited to power are the ones who never seek it, but have it laid on them by those who are to weak to wield it.