Black Wolf Smith Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Random question: I'm still on Clash of Kings, but I was reading a lot of forums that were saying that pretty much nothing happens for the next 3 books. Is this true? Should I keep reading up to Dance With Dragons? I am really enjoying the books so far, but don't see the point of reading if he doesn't progress the storyline too far :/Get real! If you got aSoIaF in blood enough to come here, even if everybody not to, you would still read them all. And And then all of Dunk and Egg.My small question: what are the words of House Frey?We don't know, yet. This is at least one funny thread about it. IIRC its named Frey's House Words.Well this is a new thought to me. I always thought it was Euron as well, paying a Faceless Man. However it is not true that most ironborn go through the drowning ritual according to Aeron. Mostly they have a little seawater dribbled on their heads.IIRC that is a rather new thing, to have a little seawater dribbled. The point of saying that is to tell that Theon and his brothers were all properly drowned. I think that implies Balon's father properly drowned all of his sons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 IIRC that is a rather new thing, to have a little seawater dribbled. The point of saying that is to tell that Theon and his brothers were all properly drowned. I think that implies Balon's father properly drowned all of his sons as well.I guess a royal family would undoubtedly have to do it, otherwise it will be humiliating and disrespectful to the faith. However, I also recall that actual drowning and revival was a thing for the more "hardcore" religious guys, and that a simple pouring would usually suffice.But yeah, I think it's safe to assume all of the royal family was properly drowned, the boys at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaruca Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Apple Martini said:"Almost all, if not all, ironborn go through the drowning ritual, I'm pretty sure. It's a religious rite like a baptism. So a "drowned crow" could be interpreted as an ironborn with crow imagery somewhere — namely Euron Crow's Eye. Nothing to do with Aeron"Well this is a new thought to me. I always thought it was Euron as well, paying a Faceless Man. However it is not true that most ironborn go through the drowning ritual according to Aeron. Mostly they have a little seawater dribbled on their heads.Not sure where the crow imagery comes from if it isnt Crows Eye. I'll have to reread that (again!). I did think it was as you describe and not sure what set me off on that tangent.Many Ironborn are ritually drowned (or baptised) at birth, but Aeron drowned more than once (by accident, not as a ritual) and fits the 'drowned' description better than Euron imo. He also wears seaweed in his super long hair (wings) and is described as having black eyes and a beaked nose (crow).Random question: I'm still on Clash of Kings, but I was reading a lot of forums that were saying that pretty much nothing happens for the next 3 books. Is this true? Should I keep reading up to Dance With Dragons? I am really enjoying the books so far, but don't see the point of reading if he doesn't progress the storyline too far :/You should definitely read all the books. AFFC and ADWD can be read in tangent. They take place at about the same time, but I would recommend finishing AFFC before the last third or so of ADWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Many Ironborn are ritually drowned (or baptised) at birth, but Aeron drowned more than once (by accident, not as a ritual) and fits the 'drowned' description better than Euron imo. He also wears seaweed in his super long hair (wings) and is described as having black eyes and a beaked nose (crow).It seems pretty obvious that it was Euron who paid the faceless men to kill Balon and that's what the vision refers to. The seaweed on the wings is to make it clear that the crow represents an Iron Islander (of whom Euron is the only one associated with crows) and not say, the nights watch or death in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yeah, Aeron has no motive and is not associated with crows. Everything with Euron fits perfectly, it's not much of a mystery to me.By the way - the seaweed can be interpreted in another way - the driftwood crown, which Balon's murder ultimately made Euron's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yeah, Aeron has no motive and is not associated with crows. Everything with Euron fits perfectly, it's not much of a mystery to me.By the way - the seaweed can be interpreted in another way - the driftwood crown, which Balon's murder ultimately made Euron's.No Aeron has no motive. The FM could have killed Aeron and taken his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 No Aeron has no motive. The FM could have killed Aeron and taken his face.That's cracking some serious pots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 No Aeron has no motive. The FM could have killed Aeron and taken his face.....We've had Aeron POV chapters after Balon's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaruca Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 But if Euron is so badass that he strolls right in the day after Balon's death unconcerned with how it would look, why didn't he just kill Balon himself? Or send one of his minions since he was in the area? Why hire a faceless man? I agree Euron hiring a faceless man is a good theory, but it is not indisputable. I have a few thoughts on motive, both Aeron's and Euron's but they're not small answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 But if Euron is so badass that he strolls right in the day after Balon's death unconcerned with how it would look, why didn't he just kill Balon himself? Or send one of his minions since he was in the area? Why hire a faceless man? I agree Euron hiring a faceless man is a good theory, but it is not indisputable.I have a few thoughts on motive, both Aeron's and Euron's but they're not small answers.Euron couldn't out-and-out kill Balon himself because he'd be pegged as a kinslayer. He had to kill him without being tied to it directly, so he hired a Faceless Man. Coming back so soon after Balon's death might raise some eyebrows, but that's still not in the same league as actually killing him personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaruca Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 ^Yes, but killing Balon did not require a skilled assassin. Euron was there so he could have had one of his men push Balon off the bridge. Why go to the expense of hiring a FM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Manhood-Eating Goat Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's my opinion (opinion rather than fact) that Euron paid the Faceless Men a dragon egg to kill Balon. Therefore he lost nothing of consequence to himself, to ensure a killing that would look accidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 ^Yes, but killing Balon did not require a skilled assassin. Euron was there so he could have had one of his men push Balon off the bridge. Why go to the expense of hiring a FM?Euron points out that he was still out at sea when Balon died. I might be wrong but I think the only men he had before the kingsmoot were those weird mutes. I would argue he did need a skilled assassin Sure he could have hired just about anyone to push Balon off the rickety bridge. The hard part was getting on the bridge with him in the first place. The act of killing him may have been simple but getting that close to the king of the Iron Islands was not, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 ^Yes, but killing Balon did not require a skilled assassin. Euron was there so he could have had one of his men push Balon off the bridge. Why go to the expense of hiring a FM?The point of FM is that they are assassins who make deaths appear entirely natural or accidental and put no suspicion on anyone. Besides, if popular theory is correct and Euron paid with a dragon egg, he really didn't lose all that much. Chances are he stole that dragon egg. It definitely wasn't a prized family heirloom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FittleLinger Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 And at the least - he gets an alibi - me and my people were at sea - you saw us coming - so it was not me or my people.And next, if your goals are to subjugate Westeros by stealing the dragon queen's dragons and one branch of the chain of it is to kill your king brother - I see the reasoning behind playing safe with the FM instead of trying something stupid and ruining your entire campaign. Also, as others have said, the dragon egg was not something that valuable - he most probably stole or found it, he doesn't know how to hatch it, and even if he does - Dany's dragons seem to be reasonably older (and they are three) and Euron doesn't strike me as the type to be patient enough to wait for an eventual dragon to grow up. He arrived the next day after Balon was killed after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full-Faced Braavosi Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not saying I disagree that Euron hired a FM, but why not higher someone who is asummedly cheaper, like a Sorrowful Man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not saying I disagree that Euron hired a FM, but why not higher someone who is asummedly cheaper, like a Sorrowful Man?As Dr. Pepper said:The point of FM is that they are assassins who make deaths appear entirely natural or accidental and put no suspicion on anyone. Besides, if popular theory is correct and Euron paid with a dragon egg, he really didn't lose all that much. Chances are he stole that dragon egg. It definitely wasn't a prized family heirloom.I dunno that the Sorrowfull Men are as discrete in their methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full-Faced Braavosi Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 As Dr. Pepper said:I dunno that the Sorrowfull Men are as discrete in their methods.Perhaps true, but it's not like he faked a heart attack. He was pushed off a bridge.Also, re egg... it's an opportunity cost thing. Maybe it held no sentimental value, but eggs are extremely valuable. He could've bought another fleet or army with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Perhaps true, but it's not like he faked a heart attack. He was pushed off a bridge.Most people don't seem to think he was pushed but rather blow off by a storm. It was subtle enough. I really don't know anything about the Sorrowful Men other than that they apologize to their victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaruca Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Perhaps true, but it's not like he faked a heart attack. He was pushed off a bridge.Also, re egg... it's an opportunity cost thing. Maybe it held no sentimental value, but eggs are extremely valuable. He could've bought another fleet or army with it.I agree. Also, if his goal is to subjugate Westeros with Dany's dragons, the egg could also prove useful in gaining an audience/negotiating with Dany. Much simpler than the kinslaying, kingsmoot, send Victarion plan. Who better to hatch a dragon egg than the mother of dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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