Prince Lewyn's Paramour

[Anath]

It was Lady Olenna Redwyne.

Just kidding.

I doubt the woman is anybody significant, or any person we'll be seeing later on. She was Lewyn's Paramour, that's it.

Probably. If she was someone significant, though, Arianne would be the last person to know about it. Doran wouldn't want Tyenne, Lady Nym, the Fowler twins and so on to get to know.

[PrimeRhaegar]

I honestly don't think she is that important, but i do think that she may have been one of elia's ladies in waiting so she could be closer to her paramour, but thats just a theory of mine.

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

Lady Olenna seems unlikely. She's too high profile to be someone's secret paramour. Either word would have gotten around or it would ruin her future marriage prospects. This is really interesting. We have so little information, it could have been anyone. But I agree it was likely someone bastard born, and perhaps a prostitute. It's likely Nymeria will think about it while in KL.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I went through the families of the Crownlands and found no particular likely options. I did find that Lady Tanda Stokeworth was not described as good looking, which I take to mean she was rather homely. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that she wasn't gorgeous in her youth, but I think it makes it less likely.

I do find it amusing that Arianne thinks older women can't be beautiful. That girl still has some serious growing up to do. Ooh! Younger, more beautiful Arianne? I don't know if she's actually better looking than Cersei but you can bet she thinks she is. :D

[furiousmoose0]

I don't know many older Ladies who could have been Lewyn's paramour. If she's still alive, the number of candidates shrinks even further. Anyone has any idea who this could have been? Of the Dornish, only Lady Delonne Allyrion might fit, age-wise. Or was his paramour someone from King's Landing?

Highborn isnt something that would describe a paramour.....they were whores for the highborn. If Tyrion were a Dorne he wouldnt have need to hide Shai......that is essentially the jist of it. I mean Prince Oberons is a Sand....

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

As far I could find, there hasn't been a good discussion of Prince Lewyn's paramour. It is of questionable importance and is only mentioned twice throughout the series (as Prince Lewyn is mentioned only a precious few times), but it is something I am curious about and think could possibly tie into some of the other mysteries and theories.

(It's possible I'm missing information from outside the 5 series books)

Here's everything we know about Lewyn:

-He was the younger brother of the Princess of Dorne (Prince Doran's mother).

-He served in the kingsguard to Aerys the Mad.

-King Aerys used his niece, Princess Elia Martell, as a hostage to ensure his loyalty (called into question perhaps by whisperings from Varys about Rhaegar's supposed plot to seize the throne).

-He fought and died at the Trident (283 AL) during Robert's Rebellion, mortally wounded before being killed by Ser Lyn Corbray.

-Jon Arryn returned his bones to Sunspear while putting down any notion of a second Dornish rebellion.

Paramour

-According to both Arianne and Ser Barristan, he kept a paramour.

-Arianne says his paramour was a "rare beauty in her youth."

-Arianne implies that his paramour is still alive (possibly indicating that Arianne knows who she is).

-Ser Barristan says that Lewyn shared this knowledge with him, but it is clearly not widely known as Ser Arys Oakheart is somewhat shocked.

Speculations:

-We do not know his age, but his nephew Prince Doran is currently about 52 (b. 248 AL) and would've been 35 during the Battle of the Trident, so it likely Lewyn is somewhere between 35 and 55 at his death (somewhere in the middle or older, I'd imagine).

-It is never explicitly stated, there is a decent chance that he was at the Tourney of Harrenhal as King Aerys, Prince Rhaegar, and Princess Elia Martell were there (I don't believe it's stated whether Queen Rhaella or Viserys were there or if they had KG guarding them wherever they were).

Rhaella and Viserys were in KL (the night he received his white cloak, Jaime was ordered to return to KL to "protect" them by Aerys), and all KG Knights were at Harrenhal to welcom their new brother :)

I don't know many older Ladies who could have been Lewyn's paramour. If she's still alive, the number of candidates shrinks even further. Anyone has any idea who this could have been? Of the Dornish, only Lady Delonne Allyrion might fit, age-wise. Or was his paramour someone from King's Landing?

Since Arianne seems to have met the woman, I'd say it hints to her being a dornishwoman

It doesn't sound like Arianne has ever left Dorne, but she has travelled around in Dorne, so that could have been a way for her to meet the woman.

The paramour at least doesn´t seem to be living close to Sunspear, as Arianne´s quote indicates that she only saw the paramour when the woman had grown old enough for her beauty to fade. And seeing as how Ellaria is allowed to remain at Sunspear after Oberyn's death, you'd think that Lewyn's paramour would have been allowed the same thing.

I'm afraid I too am not that knowledgeable about unclaimed older ladies alive in the world. That being said, it's only inferred that she's still alive (although how many unclaimed women do we know of that are dead?).

Also, there's no telling exactly what "old" means to Arianne as a 23 year old. It could mean Queen of Thorns old (like 80?) or like 40.

The Queen of Thornes is in her 60ies (as described in 299 AC), placing her birth year in between 230 and 238 AC.

Could she perhaps be Septa Lemore? It's a thought I've had for a while. We don't know exactly how old she is, but I got the impression she was late 30's/early 40's which could be considered "old" by Arianne's standards and would put her in twenties during Robert's Rebellion.

But then Arianne would not have been able to meet her after the paramours beauty had faded (suggesting that the paramour had turned old in between). Though Arianne might not ever have met her at all.

The fact that the paramour is known to still be alive today suggests that people in Dorne are aware of her whereabouts (whereever those may be). So that should rule out Lemore.

I think Lewyn's paramour was Queen Rhaella herself.

We know that Rhaella was in love with a knight before being forced to marry Aerys. Lewyn could easily have joined the Kingsguard to be near her.

This would also clarify why the paramour was even mentioned: if she was Rhaella it would call into question Daenerys's paternity.

But... Jamie seemed to think she loved Bonifer Hasty... so that is a bit of a hole. Not sure why he thinks this though.

The official app has confirmed that Bonifer Hasty was Rhaella's love.

Arianne was how old, seven? When they all died, I mean. Now, I know, Dorne and all but I really doubt she would have had the time to meet Lewyn's mistress, make an assessment of her and so on. Would she really know first hand? Or just repeat what she was told?

Nowhere is it stated that Arianne would have met the paramour during Lewyn's lifetime. In fact, her quote suggests otherwise. The woman was a great beauty in her youth, they say, but now she is old and her beauty has faded.

I might even be so that Arianne has never met her. Men say, is what Arianne uses to describe the paramours beauty.

There are a few ways to look at this. We don't know when Lewyn joined the KG, nor do we know how old he was. His paramour might have come from Dorne with him to KL, she might have come from Dorne during (a) Elia's wedding (b ) some other occasion involving the Martells © some occasion that allowed her presence.

She might have been a noblewoman (giving her enough status not to be whispered about; though they whisper about Genna as well, and Tywin ignores it. I doubt that Aerys would ignore such a thing). She might also have been a commoner.

That men speak about it in Dorne suggests that the woman is known in Dorne (suggesting she is from Dorne). More than that, I don't think we can say.

But it's not necessary for the woman to have come to KL only after Elia came to wed Rhaegar. She could have been there long before.

[Hippocras]

there is no evidence Arianne ever saw her.

- she was beautiful when she was young men say

She is repeating what she heard.

[Tyrus Martell]

there is no evidence Arianne ever saw her.

- she was beautiful when she was young men say

She is repeating what she heard.

This.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

there is no evidence Arianne ever saw her.

- she was beautiful when she was young men say

She is repeating what she heard.

The "men say" clearly refers to the young woman she once was, but Arianne estimates her current beauty herself as faded. Indicating that she had met her during the last 5-10 years, but not when she was young.

[TheBlackViper]

The paramour at least doesn´t seem to be living close to Sunspear, as Arianne´s quote indicates that she only saw the paramour when the woman had grown old enough for her beauty to fade. And seeing as how Ellaria is allowed to remain at Sunspear after Oberyn's death, you'd think that Lewyn's paramour would have been allowed the same thing.

Ellaria remained at Sunspear because she lived there with Oberyn and her children were there. We don't know if Prince Lewyn's paramour ever lived in Sunspear. It is possible she returned to her family's home when he died.

Spoilers for Arianne's preview chapter of TWoW:

Ellaria herself eventually returns to Hellholt with Loreza, so this could well have happened with Lewyn's paramour too.

[PrinceHenryris]

I don't know why, but I kind of like the Olenna Tyrell theory.

That said, we don't know how old Lewyn was. He was the younger brother of Doran's mother. That's all we know. He could have been a year or two younger, or he could have been MUCH younger. My grandfather graduated from high school with not one, but two of his nephews. Lewyn could well have been Doran's age or younger.

Whatever it turns out, this was a fun read.

[Hippocras]

The "men say" clearly refers to the young woman she once was, but Arianne estimates her current beauty herself as faded. Indicating that she had met her during the last 5-10 years, but not when she was young.

That is one possible interpretation certainly. But I wouldn't put it down as established fact. It is just as easy, and as correct, to interpret what was written as saying she had heard people say. No evidence at all of a direct encounter.

[Firiel Hiren]

Ok, so how about this:

Darkstar is the son of Prince Lewyn and his paramour.

You want another? (I know you do!)

Queen Rhaella was his mother and she gave birth to Darkstar while King Aerys was held captive in Duskendale.

That's why he's dangerous.

edit: spelling

[Hippocras]

Ok, so how about this:

Darkstar is the son of Prince Lewyn and his paramour.

You want another? (I know you do!)

Queen Rhaegar was his mother and she gave birth to Darkstar while King Aerys was held captive in Duskendale.

That's why he's dangerous.

Ooh! I like it. But, why does he look like a Dayne then?

[Firiel Hiren]

Good question, it just came to me when I went back along my timeline and saw the Defiance of Duskendale and how Aerys was mistrustful of everyone after and it especially includes his wife.

What exactly does he look like... hmm. High cheekbones, aquiline nose, strong jaw. Thick silver hair that falls "to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of midnight black." Dark purple eyes almost black.

Arianne says her children with him "would be as beautiful as dragonlords". >.>

Prince Lewyn Martell is Doran 's uncle so need not resemble either him or Oberyn too closely. I would have to imagine dark hair, black eyes and olive skin is average for Martell without more specific info.

I am not seeing a description of Rhaella but Rhaegar had silver hair and dark lilac eyes, Viserys and Dany silver-blonde hair and purple eyes. Their skin was pale also.

So actually if we take Rhaegar's more silver hair and combine it with a streak of black from Dorne.. and do the same blend with both the eyes and skin (especially since he likes the night time and would be less tan) he would have lighter tan skin and dark purple eyes that are almost black. I don't know, seems quite possible to me.

His most Dayne feature is the purple eyes which of course is also Targaryen.

It says Dayne's "have pale skin with hair ranging from dark brown to pale blond and they often have violet eyes."

Notable that House Dayne of High Hermitage is a cadet branch of landed knights according to wiki. It doesn't seem to have history or arms and could look different. Or... It could be a really great place to hide someone you need to hide.

Prince Lewyn was certainly noble enough to set this up by himself but his sister the Crown Princess of Dorne was also Rhaella Targaryen's Lady-in-waiting with Joanna Lannister. That certainly made their meeting convenient.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The only problem with that theory is that the paramour is still alive, whereas Rhaella has been dead for many, many years.

[Hippocras]

The only problem with that theory is that the paramour is still alive, whereas Rhaella has been dead for many, many years.

There is no proof she is still alive at all.

[Firiel Hiren]

That could be a cover story that she has been told just as everyone thinks Darkstar is a Dayne. I imagine the Bonifer Hasty thing would have to be exaggerated by Rhaella's side as well.

This would have to be a closely guarded secret and everyone appears to know not to tell Arianne anything.

[Lord Joker]

Believe it or not, the Queen of Thorns, though described as "a very old woman", is probably in her late 60s. She describes herself as older than Hoster Tully (b.235) but in a way that makes her seem like they are of the same generation. She was a great beauty in her youth and there was talk of marrying her to a Targaryen, but she "put a stop to that." It is never specified when exactly her husband Luthor Tyrell rode off that cliff but it was certainly well before the 280s, when her son "Lord" Mace took part in the Battle of Ashford and Seige of Storm's End.

Lewyn Martell (Doran's uncle) was probably born between 225-235 AL (Doran was born 248 AL) and died in 283 at the Battle of the Trident.

All of which means... It could have been the Queen of Thorns! She would have been a beautiful widow, highborn enough for Prince Lewyn and mature and unconventional enough to not care about reputation etc.

Hey, not sure I believe it... just saying the dates fit. And if it's not her, it's probably someone in her generation.

This was my first guess.

[Lord Joker]

There is no proof she is still alive at all.

The paramour? Arianne says she's a much older woman. AKA alive.

True, it could be rumours. But why wouldn't she know? If people knew who she was, i'm sure they'd know when they died.

But yes, it's not concrete proof i definitely agree.