From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XVIII

[brashcandy]

Both break faith with their vows with the death of a king. Jaime does his duty under Aerys in a very similar way to Sansa doing her duty in her marriage to Tyrion, but I don't think that holds up while Jaime serves under Robert. Fleeing from Tyrion and KL is hardly dutiful but she still considers the herself bound by the vow as she tells Littlefinger that she is still married. Littlefinger's offer to Sansa of Winterfell and a marriage is close to Tywin's offer to Jaime of Casterly Rock and a marriage. Both respond that they are bound by vows though we don't know how Sansa's story proceeds from there like we do with Jaime's.

Good points. With regard to what Sansa says to Littlefinger, I think she's just using that as an excuse, as we know that she really does not in fact consider herself bound to Tyrion. She also brought him up as an obstacle to Lysa Arryn when she's trying to avoid the odious SR marriage, IIRC. Could you clarify what you mean with reference to her doing her duty in the marriage to Tyrion? If you mean by actually going through with the ceremony and acting in the role of his wife in public settings etc, then yes, dutiful in that sense. But I don't see her as ever being dutiful in a meaningful manner, at least not in the way Tyrion wanted.

Edit: Oh dear lord. It is a strange coincidence, but the only other time the song is mentioned is by Dunk in the Hedge Knight....as he digs a grave. The whole quote below:

"the old song about going to Gulltown to see a fairmaid, but instead of Gulltown he'd sung of Ashford. Off to Ashford to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho, Dunk thought miserably as he dug. "

So thinking about the fair maid as he dug eh? Wonder if one of his possible decendents is doing the same thing :cool4:

This is a really interesting catch Rapsie. :) Certainly gives insight into what Martin considers as fairly "romantic".

[Ragnorak]

Good points. With regard to what Sansa says to Littlefinger, I think she's just using that as an excuse, as we know that she really does not in fact consider herself bound to Tyrion. She also brought him up as an obstacle to Lysa Arryn when she's trying to avoid the odious SR marriage, IIRC. Could you clarify what you mean with reference to her doing her duty in the marriage to Tyrion? If you mean by actually going through with the ceremony and acting in the role of his wife in public settings etc, then yes, dutiful in that sense. But I don't see her as ever being dutiful in a meaningful manner, at least not in the way Tyrion wanted.

That was what I meant by dutiful. Things like not ducking out of the breakfast with the tummy ache or moon's blood excuse plus Tyrion's own observation about how exceptionally dutiful she was. While I agree still being married is a shield and an excuse when it comes to LF's plans and I do not think she feels bound to Tyrion personally, I do think she feels bound to the vow she took out of her own sense of honor as well as a respect for laws, customs, religion, etc surrounding marriage.

Rapsie. I read the next Arya chapter and the Sansa associations with the songs jumped out at me too. The Dunk and Egg connections you saw just makes it all the more interesting.

[1234567]

While I agree still being married is a shield and an excuse when it comes to LF's plans and I do not think she feels bound to Tyrion personally, I do think she feels bound to the vow she took out of her own sense of honor as well as a respect for laws, customs, religion, etc surrounding marriage.

I think at the time she plays along and as you say she behaves with courtesy, doing what she deems honourable, (and also playing the long game of doing what is expected to a degree as to ensure she still has the oppertunity to escape) however we see that attitude beginning to change in AFFC. She doesn't seem bothered by the idea that her mother slept with LF, (although we know she didn't) and she is now in the company of people like Randa who openly talk of lovers and Mya who did bed her own lover. There are a lot of "love outside of marriage" elements cropping up in Sansa's storyline.

And just to go back to Milady's essay, that is another thing that ties her to Jaime, as he has already sought fulfillment beyond his vows.

This is a really interesting catch Rapsie. :) Certainly gives insight into what Martin considers as fairly "romantic".

Rapsie. I read the next Arya chapter and the Sansa associations with the songs jumped out at me too. The Dunk and Egg connections you saw just makes it all the more interesting.

It maybe a bit crackpot, but I thought it was an odd few lines, given the unkiss and her supposedly being from Gulltown are in the same book. Then the grave in the Hedge Knight etc, well it could be coincidence, but then again, I'm not sure.

[brashcandy]

That was what I meant by dutiful. Things like not ducking out of the breakfast with the tummy ache or moon's blood excuse plus Tyrion's own observation about how exceptionally dutiful she was. While I agree still being married is a shield and an excuse when it comes to LF's plans and I do not think she feels bound to Tyrion personally, I do think she feels bound to the vow she took out of her own sense of honor as well as a respect for laws, customs, religion, etc surrounding marriage.

Wasn't that comment by Tyrion profoundly ironic? :) I mean, yes, Sansa's courtesy armor was in full effect during the marriage, but the wedding night is where she actively begins to question whatever duty she might have had to Tyrion - within the marriage bed at least. After this she continues with the masquerade, but both she and Tyrion are painfully aware that it's a performance. When she's newly arrived in the Fingers, she talks of being free from her "mockery" of a marriage. So I guess I'm a bit curious as to why you think that she feels bound by a sense of honour etc.

[Ragnorak]

Wasn't that comment by Tyrion profoundly ironic? :) I mean, yes, Sansa's courtesy armor was in full effect during the marriage, but the wedding night is where she actively begins to question whatever duty she might have had to Tyrion - within the marriage bed at least. After this she continues with the masquerade, but both she and Tyrion are painfully aware that it's a performance. When she's newly arrived in the Fingers, she talks of being free from her "mockery" of a marriage. So I guess I'm a bit curious as to why you think that she feels bound by a sense of honour etc.

Ah, you're thinking sex and I was thinking marriage. I think Sansa would feel too honor bound by her vows to marry under the name Alayne Stone while still officially married as Sansa Stark. With sex I would expect her to wrestle with the issue much like Jon with Ygritte and likely have a similar outcome.

[brashcandy]

Ah, you're thinking sex and I was thinking marriage. I think Sansa would feel too honor bound by her vows to marry under the name Alayne Stone while still officially married as Sansa Stark. With sex I would expect her to wrestle with the issue much like Jon with Ygritte and likely have a similar outcome.

Oh, I see your point now and I agree :) LF is promising to reveal her as Sansa Stark on her wedding day, however, but I think right now the thought of fooling Harry into believing she's someone else for a short period of time is the least of her concerns.

[Caro99]

Ahh Milady, you did it again. What a beautiful essay!! I can only agree with Brash when she says this

With Brienne's last words to Jaime in ADWD about the Hound having Sansa, it feels as though Martin is beginning to close the circle and bring these thematic connections to a climax

Oh and Mladen, congrats on the 900th post! :D

[greensleeves]

While I agree still being married is a shield and an excuse when it comes to LF's plans and I do not think she feels bound to Tyrion personally, I do think she feels bound to the vow she took out of her own sense of honor as well as a respect for laws, customs, religion, etc surrounding marriage.

There's at least some evidence that she doesn't consider herself married anymore. In the snow castle scene she thinks: "I would sooner be married to Tyrion again." As in: I'm not married to Tyrion anymore.

Of course just a few sentences earlier she thinks that she is a "woman wed". Sometimes I think Sansa's just *a lot* harder to figure out that other characters.

I think it's clear *how* Sansa would feel about another wedding, but it's less clear *why* she feels that way. She surely has a long list of reasons to choose from.

[brashcandy]

There's at least some evidence that she doesn't consider herself married anymore. In the snow castle scene she thinks: "I would sooner be married to Tyrion again." As in: I'm not married to Tyrion anymore.

That may have been when she expected Tyrion to have been executed for Joff's murder or just a reference to the fact that there was a definite separation in the marriage. As I intimated to Rag, I don't see a case where Sansa feels obligated to Tyrion in any way, shape or form. She's not looking to become a bigamist, but her reasons for not being married again don't strike me as having anything to do with her holding those vows sacred.

[Mladen]

That may have been when she expected Tyrion to have been executed for Joff's murder or just a reference to the fact that there was a definite separation in the marriage. As I intimated to Rag, I don't see a case where Sansa feels obligated to Tyrion in any way, shape or form. She's not looking to become a bigamist, but her reasons for not being married again don't strike me as having anything to do with her holding those vows sacred.

Both of them feel that way. Neither Sansa nor Tyrion has any sense of being married. They don`t think of each other that much...Sansa is focused on her new life, as Tyrion is focused on surviving in Essos. Basically, they `divorced` in their hearts...

Oh and Mladen, congrats on the 900th post! :D

Thanks Caro, just wait to see what I am preparing for my 1000th...

[brashcandy]

Both of them feel that way. Neither Sansa nor Tyrion has any sense of being married. They don`t think of each other that much...Sansa is focused on her new life, as Tyrion is focused on surviving in Essos. Basically, they `divorced` in their hearts...

Well with Tyrion it's a lot less clear cut. I agree that he hardly thinks about Sansa specifically, but he does consider himself to be a married man, and he hasn't made clear if he's still invested in fulfilling a Tysha fantasy through Sansa. At this point, I can't see how even he would still want to hold onto that marriage, but anything is possible....

Rag might be able to clarify a bit more on this, given that they're on the ADWD chapters in the Tyrion reread.

[Mladen]

Well with Tyrion it's a lot less clear cut. I agree that he hardly thinks about Sansa specifically, but he does consider himself to be a married man, and he hasn't made clear if he's still invested in fulfilling a Tysha fantasy through Sansa. At this point, I can't see how even he would still want to hold onto that marriage, but anything is possible....

Rag might be able to clarify a bit more on this, given that they're on the ADWD chapters in the Tyrion reread.

Medically speaking, Sansa surgically removed tumor, while Tyrion is going with chemotherapy...:). Problems are recidives...

[Lyanna Stark]

Well with Tyrion it's a lot less clear cut. I agree that he hardly thinks about Sansa specifically, but he does consider himself to be a married man, and he hasn't made clear if he's still invested in fulfilling a Tysha fantasy through Sansa. At this point, I can't see how even he would still want to hold onto that marriage, but anything is possible....

Rag might be able to clarify a bit more on this, given that they're on the ADWD chapters in the Tyrion reread.

Tysha seems to loom much larger than Sansa for Tyrion post ASOS. Sansa becomes a paranthesis at best, while "Where do whores go?" is near Tyrion's battle cry in ADWD. He lists Shae and Sansa as "false" and longs for his wife, which we seem to be able to interpret as likely being Tysha, not Sansa.

[brashcandy]

Tysha seems to loom much larger than Sansa for Tyrion post ASOS. Sansa becomes a paranthesis at best, while "Where do whores go?" is near Tyrion's battle cry in ADWD. He lists Shae and Sansa as "false" and longs for his wife, which we seem to be able to interpret as likely being Tysha, not Sansa.

Yes, that's true. I do wonder though how it will all play when he returns to Westeros, having likely not found that wife and the foreshadowing of conflict with him in the Vale.

[Mladen]

My dear friends, in the last days I have been researching the parallels between 2 lovable beasts in modern fantasy - one is of course Sandor, and the other is Severus Snape...It`s the first part of 3 part essay project I intend to write. The essays are

1. Beasts: A Hound and a snake

2. Dualism in beastly nature: Sandor/Hound and Half/Blood prince

3. Love and lies

The 2nd and 3rd part will come soon very soon...Here we go then

[Mladen]

The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them. Maya Angelou was right. But, one thing she forgot to tell us is how long we should wait until people show us who they really are. When do people show their real face? How to distinguish truth from lie?

People are difficult to understand. In order to do that, you have to dig deep, watch carefully and connect dots. It`s like jigsaw puzzle. You often see many pieces but very rare you`re able to see a whole picture. People rarely show all of them. We keep secrets, emotions, thoughts and desires to ourselves. We keep them secret, we keep them safe.

So, how people then scratch the rough exterior? How they see beyond ill manners or hateful behavior? Oh, we all know answer to that question. It`s not about curiosity, or even importunity. It`s about something in us that wants to see more. And usually, the person whom we want to know entirely is the person we genuinely care.

After the ending of Harry Potter series, Severus Snape has become one of the most loved characters in modern literature. The infamous potion master has been characterized as symbol of undying love, tragic soul and wrongly judged man. Through Snape`s character J.K. Rowling masterfully proved her hypothesis that `love is the most powerful magic of all. `

To make comparison between Sandor and Snape is to actually see two tormented souls. From their earliest days, they suffered and that had led them to bitterness and cynicism, depriving them of any sort of real intimacy. But faced with `power of love`, both of them start poetic journey of redemption that love has set for them. In the most ironic way, two men who hate everything and everyone are proved to be able to love in the most amazing way.

Sansa could not take her eyes off the third man. He seemed to feel the weight of her gaze. Slowly he turned his head. Lady growled. A terror as overwhelming as anything Sansa Stark had ever felt filled her suddenly. She stepped backward and Burnped into someone.

Strong hands grasped her by the shoulders, and for a moment Sansa thought it was her father, but when she turned, it was the burned face of Sandor Clegane looking down at her, his mouth twisted in a terrible mockery of a smile. “You are shaking, girl,” he said, his voice rasping. “Do I frighten you so much?”

GAME OF THRONES - George R.R. Martin

Harry, who was starting to feel warm and sleepy, looked up at the High Table again. Hagrid was drinking deeply from his goblet. Professor McGonagall was talking to Professor Dumbledore. Professor Quirrell, in his absurd turban, was talking to a teacher with greasy black hair, a hooked nose, and sallow skin.

It happened very suddenly. The hook-nosed teacher looked past Quirrell’s turban straight into Harry’s eyes — and a sharp, hot pain shot across the scar on Harry’s forehead.

HARRY POTTER AND SORCERER`S STONE - J.K. Rowling

Similarities between Sandor and Severus are obvious from the first time we meet them. The first impression they made was intimidating, untrusting worthy and further more wrong. Harry and Sansa had something to warn them about possible danger. Harry got his scar and Sansa had Lady. And they were warned, but not about right person. Ironically, both Sansa and Harry misinterpreted the signs. Harry`s scar wasn`t warning him about Snape as much as Lady didn`t warn Sansa about Sandor. Harry`s scar got painful due to Quirell`s presence and Lady growled at Ser Illyn but rumbled at Sandor. Both Sansa and Harry sadly judged the book by its cover.

But, it will soon be proved they were not totally wrong. For both Severus and Sandor proved to feel some resentment towards Harry and Sansa respectively. Snape held enormous grudge against his father whom Harry appeared a lot, and Sandor despised Sansa`s courtly behavior. They hated both Harry and Sansa because what they have represented for. Harry was an image of his father, and Sansa a true example of ladylike manners.

Funny thing is that not only Sansa and Harry made mistakes. It was Sandor and Snape too who were wrong about their assessments. Snape hated Harry of being just like his father, but Harry was, just like Dumbledore cleverly noticed, more like his mother. Sandor thought of Sansa as just another lady, but she was more than that.

If you think meeting these two gentlemen was scary, just think how it would be to find out something from their personal life, something like their worst memory.

The Hound caught her by the arm and leaned close. “The things I told you tonight,” he said, his voice sounding even rougher than usual. “If you ever tell Joffrey... your sister, your father... any of them...”

“I won’t,” Sansa whispered. “I promise.”

It was not enough. “If you ever tell anyone,” he finished, “I’ll kill you.”

GAME OF THRONES - George R.R. Martin

Snape threw Harry from him with all his might. Harry fell hard on to the dungeon floor.

“You will not repeat what you saw to anybody!” Snape bellowed.

“No,” said Harry, getting to his feet as far from Snape as he could. “No, of course I w—”

“Get out, get out, I don’t want to see you in this office ever again!”

HARRY POTTER AND ORDER OF THE PHOENIX - J. K. Rowling

Two memories that shaped their lives are now shared. In case of Sandor, it was done willingly, but Snape was caught off guard. These two memories are not just their worst, they also depicts their vulnerability and fear. These memories explain so much, and give a wonderful insight of their bitterness` origin. Furthermore, these two events are key moments of their lives.

For Sandor after burning everything was changed. From boy he has become a monster, in both looks and soul. His heart was now filled with hatred towards his brother and it consumed him. His hatred has become his life, his obsession and his purpose.

Snape`s story is a bit different. Lilly was all that is good and kind in his life. Snape in his humiliation and despair rejected her help and offended her in the worst way. He lost Lilly and her friendship. And with that he lost any chance of salvation. He was now alone and on the way to become a Deatheater. His life changed in so many ways after losing Lilly`s friendship.

The affect of finding the peace of puzzle these two guys represent didn`t last long. Harry may have pitied Snape, but it was something else that bothered him. Sansa didn`t forget the story, she kept it secret but soon it faded and lost its importance. Of course, that changed when Harry found out the truth and when Sansa met with Sandor in her room.

But, for all their flaws, both Sandor and Snape have been doing a noble work of protecting the loved ones. Sandor was there whenever Sansa needed help with Joffrey, he lied for her, he advised her many times, he saved her from the riot and at the end offered his help to escort her to her brother. Snape has been actively protecting Harry throughout his years on Hogwarts. Countless times these two put the safety of Sansa and Harry in front of all other things. But, they protected them the most with their cruelty and harshness.

Snape always wanted Harry expelled from Hogwarts. He used every opportunity to do that, from giving him bad grades to severely punishing his rule breakings and in many occasions with suggestions to Dumbledore. But why? Why would Snape want Harry to return to Dursleys? You get it. By expelling from Hogwarts, Harry would have to go to Petunia again, to only place in the world where he is absolutely and beyond any doubt safe. Harry was not safe at Hogwarts as much as he was safe with Dursleys. Unknowingly or not, Snape was always giving a reason for Harry to return to the only safe place. Naturally, Harry did not think of that in that way.

Sandor, on the other hand, broke all his rules. He counseled Sansa to do what he hates the most. He told her to obey and listen, to do what she`s told to smile and be pretty, to sing when she must and be always polite. Sandor demanded of her the very same thing he despised at her. And when you put someone`s safety in front of your own principles, you know you love the person.

The thing about love is that it is like a seed. It grows and with time it became stronger and takes roots deep down. It doesn`t change you, oh no, it makes you different person. Love doesn`t change who we are, it supplements us; it makes us whole and unique. It gives us purpose and makes so many things less important or even insignificant.

Severus Snape knew he loved Lilly and how strong those feelings were. Sandor is maybe still unaware of his emotions but he is about to cross the Rubicon. Death is just the next great adventure. And it is true. We`ll soon see where Sandor`s `death` will lead him. For one thing is certain, it won`t be far from his `little bird`.

[Mladen]

DUALISM IN BEASTLY NATURE

Every man is capable of doing good and evil. It`s the very basic truth of human existence. There is a thin line between good and evil, and it`s even thinner if you look at it in one person. So, to understand the good in someone, you need to understand the evil.

We are not born evil. Life makes us evil or we decide to be that. You can`t blame genetics, fate or God for that. Life is what makes people different. What we live to see, to feel and to experience is what truly makes us. Some people live to see only well, and some unfortunately had seen the worst.

Born in grief, raised in hate, helpless to defy his fate...

Lion King part 2 : Simba`s Pride (song `Not one of us`)

Both Sandor and Severus had difficult upbringing. Disregarded by parents, tortured, and finally led into the world of cruelty and viciousness, they lived to see the worst life can serve us.

Snape was half-blood wizard, born of witch mother and Muggle father. Neglectful, even violating parents with strong hatred toward each other made Snape`s childhood misery. Since he couldn`t fit in any society, he became lonely, and had no friends but Lilly, whom he loved to his last breath. Snape`s childhood is one we hear about so many times, when people who should have never had kids, gave birth to them.

Sandor was born in not so rich but established House. Born as the second son, at the age of seven he`ll learn the harshest lesson life can teach us. Burned by his own brother over a toy, his life changed into pain, loath and tragedy. Everyone avoided him due to his looks, and he eventually grew to hate everyone and everything.

But difficult childhoods make the most interesting adults.

Saint (1997), movie

But for all they have lived, for all the pain they suffered, for every humiliation they endured, they loved. Two cruel man, two tormented souls and harsh natures faced with undeniable love, became two most interesting man in their worlds.

What has love done? It shaped both Severus and Sandor into who they are. And they hid the true image of themselves very well. For those unable to love could have never seen right through them.

Voldemort even knew about Snape`s love, or as he called it, desire. He bluntly disregarded it never even for a moment waited to realize its power. And that is what led him to his demise. Severus, whose loyalties were replaced after Voldemort started chasing Lilly, became Dark Lord`s worst nightmare and his `flaw in perfect plan` of killing Harry.

Joffrey, unlike Voldemort, knew nothing. He has never taken Sandor for human being, he was dog, unable of human emotions and there only to serve the Prince. Joffrey couldn`t see through his mask, when he lied to him, when he saved his fiancée, and when he openly rebelled against Sansa`s torture.

Joffrey and Voldemort were never able to feel love, as they have never felt being loved. Their downfall is in themselves, in atrocities they have committed, in hatred they felt, in their ignorance and unawareness of love.

And yet, love had beaten them. Voldemort were not won by a spell, he was won by the great amount of love Lilly had for Harry, and Snape had for Lilly. Joffrey was a victim of both Sandor`s love and the love a grandmother has for her granddaughter.

The strangest thing that Sansa and Harry used exactly what these two beasts had taught them.

Sandor Clegane snorted. “Pretty thing, and such a bad liar. A dog can smell a lie, you know. Look around you, and take a good whiff. They’re all liars here... and every one better than you.”

CLASH OF KINGS - GEORGE R. R. MARTIN

Both of them swung their wands above their heads and pointed them at their opponent; Snape cried: “Expelliarmus!” There was a dazzling flash of scarlet light and Lockhart was blasted off his feet: He flew backward off the stage, smashed into the wall, and slid down it to sprawl on the floor.

HARRY POTTER AND THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS - J. K. ROWLING

A lie and a simple charm. Sansa`s improved ability to lie to Tyrion, who as we know is a master of the Game, set her free from shekels of courtly prison and arranged marriage. Snape, who was the first person ever to use Expelliarmus charm, never knew that Harry would use it in 2 more occasions: on Riddle graveyard and in his final battle with Voldemort. Both times, that very simple charm Snape had taught them was handy against all mighty Dark Lord.

But, Sandor and Snape`s lives were more than rough exterior and beautiful interior. They were in constant battle. Two sides of them were always colliding making them so confusing and so interesting.

The interesting part is actually that they served Harry and Sansa not by their love, then by their rough, vile side. It was Snape`s lies that kept Harry alive, his ability to murder people when he has to, his dark arts as mask of his emotions. For Sandor, it`s his ability to kill, his ability to lie, his hatred and indifference towards everyone. Both sides of these two man were fighting against, but even more fiercely for the love they felt.

Snape loved Lilly, but he hated James. He was Lilly`s best friend and future Deatheater. He lived double life so many years. He hated and cared for Harry at the same time. He hated himself because of role he played in Lilly`s death. He hated everyone with any link to it. Remember how he tortured Neville, who could be the chosen one instead of Harry, how he hated Sirius because he taught Sirius told Voldemort where to look for Potters. Remember how he treated Wormtail, the actual traitor. And at last, how he hated Voldemort for what he`s done. For both love and hate gave him power greater over Voldemort`s. For Snape was both Slytherin snake and Gryffindor lion, as Dumbledore cleverly said: You know, I sometimes think we Sort too soon… The bravery Snape demonstrated was beyond words, the love he felt was so consuming that he had to admit he`ll always love Lilly. The Half-Blood Prince, inventor of so many dark spells, murderer of many, Voldemort`s favorite, he above all proved that man always is in state of battle between what makes him good and what makes him evil. Sometimes that choice isn`t easy, but we all must face it once in a lifetime.

Sandor both loved and despised Sansa. She represented everything he hates, she had everything he didn`t, from beauty and wealth to loving parents and normal childhood. He wanted so badly to break her imaginations and dreams about knights. He tried explaining her that was all lie while he was proving quite the opposite at the same time. He told her the story about his burning face to intimidate her, and he gave her part of himself. He was harsh to her and yet he advised her. He wanted to teach her something and yet she taught him few things. He wanted her to change and yet he ended being the changed. Sandor`s turbulent behavior proves us that something is going on in him, some turmoil of emotions. He was cruel and gentle at the same time, assassin and knight, tragedy and poem at the same time. He doesn`t need song, he is a song, one of ice and fire, and Sansa is the one singing it.

Both Sandor and Snape were beasts. They were able to commit things natural to the beasts, but they felt emotions only true man is capable of. They proved that no matter how lost we are, we can always be found. For the pain of parting is nothing to the joy of meeting again. Snape found his peace in Harry`s eyes and Sandor found his peace in ideal of Sansa and in a promise of a song.

[Caro99]

Oh my Mladen!! Ok so yeah, my heart is breaking a little after reading that essay about Sandor and Snape! Gosh, you just took me back through time to when I was 16! Aww Severus! I really enjoyed reading the essays, and can’t wait for the next part. This bit in particular stood out to me:

But, for all their flaws, both Sandor and Snape have been doing a noble work of protecting the loved ones. Sandor was there whenever Sansa needed help with Joffrey, he lied for her, he advised her many times, he saved her from the riot and at the end offered his help to escort her to her brother. Snape has been actively protecting Harry throughout his years on Hogwarts. Countless times these two put the safety of Sansa and Harry in front of all other things. But, they protected them the most with their cruelty and harshness.

I loved this passage. While Severus had to sort of life a double life every single day of his life not only because he was a good guy pretending to be a death eather, and was looking out for harry even as he loathed him for what he represented, we can also see that Sandor, had things turned out differently and there hadn’t been any battle, or if he hadn’t gone away in KL and Sansa had been forced to marry Joff, would have been living a double life as well. Pretending not to care one bit about Sansa’s treatment when in reality it would all just have turned too much at one point. The beginnings of this of course are shown in Clash, and sort of erupted because of Blackwater, but yeah, these two characters – my heart goes out to them. to think of living day after day with (harry and sansa) in front of you would have been tough.

I also think that there is this parallel between them that makes them undersogs. People, (you mentioned Joff) would never have imagined that Severus was so in love with the memory and may-have-beens regarding Lily (not even Remus or Sirius who where there with them at school thought it a bigger factor than Sev and James’ hate for the other) and no one in the Red Keep seems to have noticed what was going on between Sansa and Sandor (which I think is a good thing). So yeah, intresting that these two relationships became stronger through time and in a sort of secrecy.

Again, loved your post!!

[Mladen]

LOVE AND LIES

If you love me, you`ll tell me truth. What an idiotic statement. Don`t get me wrong, but truth isn`t proof of love, no more lie is proof of dishonesty. The point is, lie just like truth, and sometimes even more, can be proof love.

We lie all the time. And the reasons are usually not so noble. We lie to conceal our laziness, we lie to progress in career, and we lie to make our lives easier. We usually lie for ourselves. Seldom are those who lie for another. And those are particularly interesting people.

When we lie for someone we usually do that out of goodness of our hearts. When there is absolute nothing for us to gain, we don`t easy break God`s commandment or our morals. And we do it with good intentions. But, as we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Severus and Sandor are two persons who appear to excel in lying. Snape has lied to Voldemort for so many years, concealed the truth from everyone. He masterfully played the role Dumbledore gave him, and he did it right to the end. As for Sandor, as much as he hates lying, he is good at it. He lies to Joffrey in more than one time, he advises Sansa to lie better. Both of them are outstanding liars, and more both of them are outstanding persons.

When Snape overheard Trelawney`s prophecy about demise of Dark Lord, he rushed to tell his master. Being good servant, Severus told Voldemort everything he knew, not knowingly that he led him straight to the woman he loved. But when Voldemort started hunting Lilly, Severus`s loyalties shifted and he started a game of deceits and lies, game of shadows, game in which there`s no better player than Voldemort. The same thing happened to Sandor. After hurting `little bird`, Joffrey lost his Hound. Sandor became loyal to Sansa, he kept her safe and unharmed. The love both men felt overpowered their duties as servants and their loyalties as minions.

The lies we tell out of love are possibly both the worst and the best. Lies told out of love can be shield meant to protect someone or powerful weapon designed to hurt. When you look into someone`s eyes and can`t differ truth from lie, that`s when you are in problems.

The king stood. “A cask from the cellars! I’ll see him drowned in it.” Sansa heard herself gasp. “No, you can’t.”

Joffrey turned his head. “What did you say?”

Sansa could not believe she had spoken. Was she mad? To tell him no in front of half the court? She hadn’t meant to say anything, only... Ser Dontos was drunk and silly and useless, but he meant no harm.

“Did you say I can’t? Did you?”

“Please,” Sansa said, “I only meant... it would be ill luck, Your Grace... to, to kill a man on your name day.”

“You’re lying,” Joffrey said. “I ought to drown you with him, if you care for him so much.”

“I don’t care for him, Your Grace.” The words tumbled out desperately. “Drown him or have his head off, only... kill him on the morrow, if you like, but please... not today, not on your name day. I couldn’t bear for you to have ill luck... terrible luck, even for kings, the singers all say so...

Joffrey scowled. He knew she was lying, she could see it. He would make her bleed for this.

“The girl speaks truly,” the Hound rasped. “What a man sows on his name day, he reaps throughout the year.” His voice was flat; as if he did not care a whit whether the king believed him or no. Could it be true? Sansa had not known. It was just something she’d said, desperate to avoid punishment.

CLASH OF THE KINGS - Gerorge R. R. Martin

Most of the eyes around the table followed Snape, and it was to him that Voldemort spoke first.

“So?”

“My Lord, the Order of the Phoenix intends to move Harry Potter from his current place of safety on Saturday next, at nightfall.” The interest around the table sharpened palpably: Some stiffened; others fidgeted, all gazing at Snape and Voldemort.

“Saturday … at nightfall,” repeated Voldemort. His red eyes fastened upon Snape’s black ones with such intensity that some of the watchers looked away, apparently fearful that they themselves would be scorched by the ferocity of the gaze. Snape, however, looked calmly back into Voldemort’s face and, after a moment or two, Voldemort’s lipless mouth curved into something like a smile.

HARRY POTTER AND DEATHLY HALLOWS - J. K. Rowling

These two cases show us how powerful desire to protect can be. Both Sandor and Snape lied. Although Joffrey wasn`t smart enough to catch it, Voldemort certainly thought he has power to read minds. The thing is he saw what Snape intended him to see. For it was Snape`s plan all along, he came up with plan, put a confusing spell on Mundungus and essentially saved Harry`s life. Voldemort stood no chance to find out the truth when he`s faced with Snape`s overwhelming desire to protect Harry.

But all of this is nothing comparing to the lies we tell ourselves. Those are the worst, for by deceiving ourselves, we can`t make difference between what is truth and what is a lie.

“But this is touching, Severus,” saidDumbledore seriously. “Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?”

“For him?” shouted Snape. “Expecto Patronum!”

From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe. She landed on the office floor, bounded once across the office, and soared outof the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turnedback to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.

“After all this time?”

“Always,” said Snape.

HARRY POTTER AND DEATHLY HALLOWS - J. K. Rowling

"Look...at....me..." he whispered.

The green eyes found the black, but after a second, something in the depths of the dark pari seemed to vanish, leaving them fixed, blank, and empty. The hand holding Harry thudded to the floor, and Snape moved no more.

HARRY POTTER AND DEATHLY HALLOWS - J. K. Rowling

“Why did you come here?”

“You promised me a song, little bird. Have you forgotten?”

She didn’t know what he meant. She couldn’t sing for him now, here, with the sky aswirl with fire and men dying in their hundreds and their thousands. “I can’t,” she said. “Let me go, you’re scaring me.”

“Everything scares you. Look at me. Look at me.“

CLASH OF THE KINGS - Gerorge R. R. Martin

Was it just about the love for Lilly? And was it all about the song? Poetical evolution in these two characters is more than wonderful, it`s epic. Snape`s lies that Harry is just his like his father convinced his consciousness, but it was his other side, his unconsciousness that cared for Harry. Harry was, in some way, the only family Severus had. Harry was part of woman he loved, and possibly the closest to the son he would have ever had. Harry`s eyes, that unmistakable Lilly trait was the last thing Severus saw. He died in peace for his lies are over, his secrets shall be discovered and he fulfilled his mission of protecting Harry.

Sandor wanted more than a song, this we can tell for certain. He wanted to save Sansa, he wanted her well, but he was refused. But the song, and more importantly the particular song about Florian and Jonquil, a love ballad, was never sung. Sansa gave Sandor something else

Gentle Mother, font of mercy,

save our sons from war, we pray,

stay the swords and stay the arrows,

let them know a better day.

Gentle Mother, strength of women,

help our daughters through this fray,

soothe the wrath and tame the fury,

teach us all a kinder way.

MOTHERS HYMN, A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE SERIES - George R. R. Martin

Sansa didn`t give him love song, but a prayer. She gave him exactly what man like Sandor truly needed. A prayer to soothe his pains, calm him down, help him find himself. Intimate song mother sings to a child, for Sandor was again boy of 7, burnt and scared, and he didn`t need ballad, he needed consolation, tenderness and cure. He needed something to help him move on, something to forget and give him strength. Some will say this is romantic, some will find a deeper meaning to this. The truth, like in all those unexplainable wonders of the world is somewhere between.

People lie, and we know it. Some people search for truth their entire lives, and for some truth is just in front of them. Snape`s truth was in Harry`s eyes, a constant reminder of Lilly and the love he felt, and Sandor`s truth was his offer to save Sansa. Their lives, their wrongdoings and killings, their servitude and loyalties may be the lie. Love is their truth. For it gives them power to redeem and resurrect, to find themselves and to be better. And that`s the only truth any of us needs in our lives.

Well, that would be my 1000th post. Special thanks goes to the very special lady who isn`t just my advisor than a person who with her support made all of this possible. Thanx, brash, I enjoyed writing this, and without your support and honesty, I wouldn`t be able to do that. Also, thank you all for wonderful comments and keen insights. You are literary audience anyone would want...

Of course, don`t think, I am done :) . Just wait P2P n19 to see what else I have under my sleeve :)

[Uncat]

Nice! That on the other hand would mean that the hound IS going down the road of the beast: Helping, loving and in the end most likely dying for the beauty (finishing of his undead brother?) That far the hound would rather be a predictable archetype. The bad gu who is not so bad and finaly does one good thing. That good thing saves his soul (in the eyes of the readers, that is), while his body needs to die for the evel he has done. For this archetype, there is no salvation on earth.

Kind of a Stannis kind of justice, actually. Instead of weighting good against bad in a judgment, the reader splits the deeds and judge them separatly, like Stannis did it with Davos: The man did bad things: kill him of. But he did some good things to: praise the dead man for this.

Now the funny thing is, GRRM does exactly this with the Hound.

When Snape died, Snape and his mask, The Snake, were dead. Their greates deed was done while Snape never needed to change, to live without the Snake armour, he wore. The man was judged and killed for being mean to Harry. But the dead man is praised.

When The Hound died on the other hand it wasn't death, it was rather a parting of ways. The Hound was torn away from Sandor. An exorcism of kinds. The evil of the Hound lived on in the mask, a little like Sauron in the Ring of Power (which makes me fear for Lem btw.). Sandor seems to be alive, too. But as of yet, don't know this ... hmm ... Unhound. I really looking forward for meeting him and see how he will evolve.

If Snape was a better man, then he seemed, he never needed to prove it. And I suspect, that he wasn't. I suspect, that he was that petty, sly and mean guy, unable to make frieds and hating the world for it instead of trying to change and to grow. Only, that that guy had one great love and acted on it as an exeption. If he had beaty inside, he never tried to develop it and to overcome his childhood.

If Sandor really has beaty inside and if the Hound is just a mask... well, will find it out hopefully. But knowing GRRM I'm preparing myself for something else, because playing with archetypes, is GRRM's hobby.

I loved your essay for that, too. It shows, just how much the Hound played along the ugly-shell-beauty-inside archetype up to now. Even our last encounter with him fits that picture. Makes me fear for Sandor.