House Dayne as the ancestors of the Valyrians (a crackpot theory)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I keep thinking that the Daynes are the ancestors of the Valyrians.

First we have the *look*. (Violet eyes, pale blond hair)

Second we have the fact that the Daynes are an ancient House of First Men but they are at Dorne by a river. Why?

My theory is that some of the Daynes or a cabet house left from Westeros and they created Valyria and later they created the Valyrian Freehold.

What do you think?

[thewingedwolf]

I keep thinking that the Daynes are the ancestors of the Valyrians.

First we have the *look*. (Violet eyes, pale blond hair)

Second we have the fact that the Daynes are an ancient House of First Men but they are at Dorne by a river. Why?

My theory is that some of the Daynes or a cabet house left from Westeros and they created Valyria and later they created the Valyrian Freehold.

What do you think?

Its an interesting point, however, if that was the case, wouldn't Dawn be a Valyrian Steel sword?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Its an interesting point, however, if that was the case, wouldn't Dawn be a Valyrian Steel sword?

why? Valyrian steels would be created in Valyria, when Dawn is forged by a falling star maybe in Starfall.

[Free Northman]

That would be awesome if true. The oldest Westerosi Houses are about twice as old as the Valyrian civilization, after all.

However, from the sound of it, the entire Valyrian race looked like the Targs - meaning all the primitive shepherds that populated the Valyrian peninsula 5000 years ago had the Targ look. So, the way in which this could be true is if some cadet branch of House Dayne settled an empty Valyria say 8000 years ago, and had multiplied to tens of thousands of people by the time Valyria discovered dragons and defeated Ghis 5000 years ago.

Possible, but probably unlikely.

[thewingedwolf]

why? Valyrian steels would be created in Valyria, when Dawn is forged by a falling star maybe in Starfall.

I have no proof of what I am about to suggest but info from the wiki actually opened my eyes to a poential theory:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Doom_of_Valyria

That to be could sound like the effects of meteor hitting Valyria. Now if Dawn was forged from the metal of a falling star it could be that, instead of being those who created Valyria, the Dayne's could have been involved in the Doom and it was from that meteor that Dawn was forged. I realize this is VERY VERY far-fetched but the accounts of the Doom of Valyria are somewhat consistent with a meteor hitting.

[lojzelote]

Do you mean Daynes as in the ethnic group from which the Daynes come, or the Daynes as a single family? Because I can't imagine how could one family beget an entire civilisation. Not even Old Walder Frey was that good.

[armidil0]

There is a group of people with valyrian looks, some go with the first men to Westeros, the others go to (or stay at) Valyria. and later become the Valyrian Empire, while the ones who left to go to westeros become the Daynes.

Sound good enough? Thats my take.

[thewingedwolf]

Do you mean Daynes as in the ethnic group from which the Daynes come, or the Daynes as a single family? Because I can't imagine how could one family beget an entire civilisation. Not even Old Walder Frey was that good.

I mean that its awfully convenient that Dawn was forged from a falling stars and that the account of the Doom of Valyria are somewhat similar to an asteroid hitting . . .

[Theda Baratheon]

Do you mean Daynes as in the ethnic group from which the Daynes come, or the Daynes as a single family? Because I can't imagine how could one family beget an entire civilisation. Not even Old Walder Frey was that good.

:lol:

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I have no proof of what I am about to suggest but info from the wiki actually opened my eyes to a poential theory:

http://awoiaf.wester...Doom_of_Valyria

That to be could sound like the effects of meteor hitting Valyria. Now if Dawn was forged from the metal of a falling star it could be that, instead of being those who created Valyria, the Dayne's could have been involved in the Doom and it was from that meteor that Dawn was forged. I realize this is VERY VERY far-fetched but the accounts of the Doom of Valyria are somewhat consistent with a meteor hitting.

I hadn't thought about that...It's interesting.

[thewingedwolf]

I hadn't thought about that...It's interesting.

Like I said I don't have proof but if you read a little about scientific accounts of potential damages from an asteroid hit, one of them is dust and debris covering the sun (i.e. the smoking sea). Also the wall of water 300 feet high that descended on Velos would be consistent with parts or fragments of the Asteroid hitting the ocean at very high velocity. Lastly, the mention of "great rents opening in the earth" could be a crater created by the asteroid's impact.

Also GRRM mentioned that the doom of Valyria was vaguely inspired by the tale of Atlantis who was wiped out in a single day after attacking Athens. The interesting part about this is that, in Plato's account of the doom of Atlantis, Athens represented the "perfect" society whereas Atlantis was its opposite and the destruction came as some type of divine or poetic justice for Atlantis's attack on Athens. It could very well be that the old Valyrians had committed such an offense but that, in the midts of the catacysm, the Targaryens and Daynes were spared and the Daynes were rewarded with Dawn.

Again, I know this is far and deep in the land of crackpotery but I am willing to thumble further down the rabbit hole if need be ;)

[Free Northman]

Dawn was forged thousands of years ago - Martin has confirmed AT LEAST 2000 years ago, but potentially much longer. The Doom happened a mere 400 years ago. So no to the theory about Dawn being connected to the Doom.

[thewingedwolf]

Dawn was forged thousands of years ago - Martin has confirmed AT LEAST 2000 years ago, but potentially much longer. The Doom happened a mere 400 years ago. So no to the theory about Dawn being connected to the Doom.

I have never heard mention of that, do you have a reference as it is not mentioned in the wiki

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dawn

[lojzelote]

I have never heard mention of that, do you have a reference as it is not mentioned in the wiki

http://awoiaf.wester.../index.php/Dawn

Ran mentioned it in

if I remember correctly. It's a long time since I've listened to it.

[thewingedwolf]

Ran mentioned it in

if I remember correctly. It's a long time since I've listened to it.

I will check that out . Although the possibility of an asteroid being the doom of Valyria remains very possible regardless. But that is another discussion for another thread.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Do you mean Daynes as in the ethnic group from which the Daynes come, or the Daynes as a single family? Because I can't imagine how could one family beget an entire civilisation. Not even Old Walder Frey was that good.

Ethinc group? What do you mean? Since Daynes were First Men...

[65536ob]

Also GRRM mentioned that the doom of Valyria was vaguely inspired by the tale of Atlantis who was wiped out in a single day after attacking Athens. The interesting part about this is that, in Plato's account of the doom of Atlantis, Athens represented the "perfect" society whereas Atlantis was its opposite and the destruction came as some type of divine or poetic justice for Atlantis's attack on Athens. It could very well be that the old Valyrians had committed such an offense but that, in the midts of the catacysm, the Targaryens and Daynes were spared and the Daynes were rewarded with Dawn.

Again, I know this is far and deep in the land of crackpotery but I am willing to thumble further down the rabbit hole if need be ;)

House Dayne is at least 10,000 years old since Gerald Dayne says that "the daynes have been killing Oakhearts and the Oakhearts have been killing Daynes for 10,000 years" this would mean that the daynes and the oakhearts had to have been lining in a close enough promximity to be killing eachother so them being in two different continents is highly unlikely,so thats why i don't believe that daynes were in valyria.

Also i think it says in the books that the targaryens left valyria 12 years before the doom

[Loon Lord]

I think it's very believable for the Daynes to be from Valyria or at least part-Valryian, but I doubt that they started the whole culture, they're not significant enough for that.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think it's very believable for the Daynes to be from Valyria or at least part-Valryian, but I doubt that they started the whole culture, they're not significant enough for that.

Daynes are older of Valyria and I remember Martin told that they aren't Valyrian

edit: http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html

[lojzelote]

Ethinc group? What do you mean? Since Daynes were First Men...

I take it you meant a single family after all. I was catious because there was one guy a long time ago who couldn't grasp the difference between "Targaryen" and "Valyrian" and kept asking after "lowborn Targaryens" in Westeros, but I see this wasn't the case.

To your titular question: No. As I already said, it was an entire civilistion. It's just not doable for a few individuals. Imagine if your family was given the task of repopulating, let's say, Italy.