Jons parents are Ned and Wylla, (F)Aegons parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna

[Ygrain]

I'm only new to the boards, and I'm not in a position of moderation or anything BUT: there is a pinned thread about R+L=J and its associated theories, wouldn't it be better to use those rather than create two new threads fifteen minutes apart?

Exactly. For some reason, this gets overlooked at least twice a week.

In AGOT he asked Ned "Is my mother alive,does she know where i'm going,does she even care".

Ned promised him next time they spoke he would talk to him about his mother....But as we know next time never came.That's as close as he came to asking him.

That's from the show, not the books.

1. But Jon's parents are a secret and have not been revealed in the books, at least 3 women are named so it's not even close to being confirmed in the books. Nor are they revealed as his parents in the books it's just like us, people guessing.

And each of the three having timeline issues, and none of them making sense to be kept secret.

2. Ummm Lukes dad was reveled in Star Wars, he was told at the very beginning of the series. Your father is Anakin Skywalker. It was never a mystery, the mystery was that Darth Vader was Anakin. We never found out who his mother was till Return. Although we never got a name. So Luke was in fact told who his father was. I hope GRRM does not steal from Star Wars. Also the statement could just be an actor messing with people.

Jon is raised by his uncle in ignorance of his true heritage, I don't think Allen was messing with anyone.

3. Is he, what was 18 year old Ned like? Drunk at tourney, haggin with his boy Robb, havin a good time, meats the super fine Ashara who is from the liberal state of Dorne. Look what Arianne did to Arys Oakheart, he was a man of honor as well.

Personally I don't think you can count out a lot in the relm of what could or did happen when it comes to Martin.

"You never were the boy you were", says Robert, vey much implying that Ned, the SIlent Wolf, was never fun.

[Techelles]

Ygrain FTW.

[Warrior Queen]

We can't know for sure about Ned and Wylla (but i don't think Jon is theirs)

but time- wise i don't think it's possible that Aegon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's, since Aegon was killed in Kings Landing before Ned even found Lyanna at the tower of Joy. If it would be the babe Ned supposedly found at the tower of Joy it would mean that Aegon is at least a year younger than he is supposed to be (Aegon was born in 282AL and killed in 283AL which makes him a year old) Wouldn't people notice? The difference between a new born and an one year old is huge!

And then:

- Who was the baby they killed in Kingslanding (might be the pisswater prince, but it wouldn't make sense to switch a baby that wasn't even born yet/ or just born, and nobody knew about)

- What happened to the baby Elia was pregnant with? it that the one they killed? Why wouldn't they just have told Aegon than that his brother was killed and that they smuggles him away? And why would they lie about his name then?

[-Ghost-]

If youre gonna start another thread like this, stop being lazy and find some evidence from the text to make your argument instead of "prove me wrong."

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Facts:

Dany at HotU

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

Jon's dream

I'm walking down this long empty hall... opening doors, shouting names... the castle is always empty... the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run, then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me... I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go down anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream... that's when I always wake.

Cat

It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face. That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady."

Mormont's raven(maybe warged BR?)

"King," croaked the raven. The bird flapped across the air to land on Mormont's shoulder. "King," it said again, strutting back and forth.

"He likes that word," Jon said, smiling. "An easy word to say. An easy word to like."

"King," the bird said again.

Ned

"I will," Ned promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them.

"Promise me, Ned. Promise me that you'll protect and care for Jon here, and oh yeah, you can just throw away this other baby wherever."

:agree:

edit:

Playing devils advocate here.

Maybe because "Aegon" looked Valyrian and Jon looked like a Stark

But then he could say that Ashara was their mother (or let it suspected) and that is from where YG got his looks.

[Mladen]

What if Jon and Aegon are twins by Rheagar and Lyana, Septa Lemore is Ashara Dayne and the real Aegon did die with his sis and mom.

I have theory that Aegon and Jon are twins. I thought that Elia couldn`t have children after Rhaenys, and she, Rhaegar and the Daynes went to Harrenhall so Rhaegar could choose someone to be the mother of the future King (since Viserys was showing craziness of his father). Lyanna got birth to two boys, and one was taken to Elia who faked pregnancy, and she presented him as her own. Jon stayed with Lyanna due to his Starkish looks.

Theory is supported by the fact that Aegon had to be concieved after the Tourney of Harrenhall(Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna. he wouldn`t sllep with Elia).

It is possibly crackpot to some of you, but I think there is a chance for this theory to be true

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I have theory that Aegon and Jon are twins. I thought that Elia couldn`t have children after Rhaenys, and she, Rhaegar and the Daynes went to Harrenhall so Rhaegar could choose someone to be the mother of the future King (since Viserys was showing craziness of his father). Lyanna got birth to two boys, and one was taken to Elia who faked pregnancy, and she presented him as her own. Jon stayed with Lyanna due to his Starkish looks.

Theory is supported by the fact that Aegon had to be concieved after the Tourney of Harrenhall(Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna. he wouldn`t sllep with Elia).

It is possibly crackpot to some of you, but I think there is a chance for this theory to be true

But we don't know when Aegon was concieved, Lyanna got missing almost a year after the Tourney and Aegon was born in 282 when Jon was at 283...

[Mladen]

But we don't know when Aegon was concieved, Lyanna got missing almost a year after the Tourney and Aegon was born in 282 when Jon was at 283...

But how exactly long did Wylla breastfed him? Blood on Lyanna`s sheets doesn`t mean that Jon was born days before Ned`s arrival at TOJ.

[Ygrain]

I have theory that Aegon and Jon are twins. I thought that Elia couldn`t have children after Rhaenys, and she, Rhaegar and the Daynes went to Harrenhall so Rhaegar could choose someone to be the mother of the future King (since Viserys was showing craziness of his father). Lyanna got birth to two boys, and one was taken to Elia who faked pregnancy, and she presented him as her own. Jon stayed with Lyanna due to his Starkish looks.

Theory is supported by the fact that Aegon had to be concieved after the Tourney of Harrenhall(Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna. he wouldn`t sllep with Elia).

It is possibly crackpot to some of you, but I think there is a chance for this theory to be true

But how exactly long did Wylla breastfed him? Blood on Lyanna`s sheets doesn`t mean that Jon was born days before Ned`s arrival at TOJ.

We know that Rhaegar was with Elia after Aegon was born, i.e. Lyanna went missing only afterwards, and was missing for about a year. No chance she had a baby before that. Also, no chance that Elia might have faked pregnancy and childbirth. Not as the prince's wife, with all the servants and maesters and Varys' little birds around.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

But how exactly long did Wylla breastfed him? Blood on Lyanna`s sheets doesn`t mean that Jon was born days before Ned`s arrival at TOJ.

Yes the blood doen't mean that he was born the same day. Maybe Wylla was with Lyanna the time she gave birthl.

[First of My Name]

The Star Wars angle could be that Jon's father is Mance Rayder, in the sense of the son fighting the father and being part of the group the father was once part of. (Jedi/Night's Watch). Also, Mance and his wildlings have come South of the Wall and joined the NW, you could compare that to Darth Vader's redemption.

Jon and Aegon brothers... Then Aegon would be a bastard but not fake.They could fight the Dance of the Dragons with Dany.

[Mladen]

We know that Rhaegar was with Elia after Aegon was born, i.e. Lyanna went missing only afterwards, and was missing for about a year. No chance she had a baby before that. Also, no chance that Elia might have faked pregnancy and childbirth. Not as the prince's wife, with all the servants and maesters and Varys' little birds around.

I think there is more to Elia than it seems...More of Doran, less of Oberyn...And maesters would take care of pregnant Queen in the first place. Elia and Ashara could easily fake pregnancy with one or two loyal servants...

[Ygrain]

I think there is more to Elia than it seems...More of Doran, less of Oberyn...And maesters would take care of pregnant Queen in the first place. Elia and Ashara could easily fake pregnancy with one or two loyal servants...

Have you ever been pregnant?

Besides, Elia was bed-ridden after giving birth to Rhaenys, there is no way she could avoid frequent checks by maesters in her next pregnancy, namely Pycelle as the best of the best. Fat chance he would keep any secret like that.

/Edit for spelling/

[Mladen]

Have you ever been pregnant?

Besides, Elia was bed-ridden after giving birth to Rhaenys, there is no way she could avoid frequent checks by maesters in her next pregnancy, namely Pycelle as the best of the best. Fat chance he would keep any secret like that.

/Edit for spelling/

No, as a guy, I think there`s no chance for me to ever experience it. But, I work with pregnant ladies all the time. The thing is that with both Queen and Princess pregnant, Pycelle would pay attention to the Queen, and let another maester to take care of Elia. Martell Maester for all we know...

[Ygrain]

No, as a guy, I think there`s no chance for me to ever experience it. But, I work with pregnant ladies all the time. The thing is that with both Queen and Princess pregnant, Pycelle would pay attention to the Queen, and let another maester to take care of Elia. Martell Maester for all we know...

??Rhaella got pregnant with Dany only just before the Sack, when Aegon was about a year old. They were never pregnant at the same time, and even if they were, the only time when Pycelle would really need another maester would be if they were giving birth at the same time.

Does your dealing with pregnant ladies include childbirth, as well?

[Thendel]

No, as a guy, I think there`s no chance for me to ever experience it. But, I work with pregnant ladies all the time. The thing is that with both Queen and Princess pregnant, Pycelle would pay attention to the Queen, and let another maester to take care of Elia. Martell Maester for all we know...

Elia and Rhaella were not pregnant at the same time; there's at least a year and a half between Aegon and Daenerys. And more importantly, Aegon's birth was before Lyanna was "abducted", thus there's no way he could be hers. In short, there's simply no way that Aegon and Jon could be twins.

Also, OP, make your case yourself, instead of using the bullshit argument that people should prove you wrong first.

[Mladen]

??Rhaella got pregnant with Dany only just before the Sack, when Aegon was about a year old. They were never pregnant at the same time, and even if they were, the only time when Pycelle would really need another maester would be if they were giving birth at the same time.

Does your dealing with pregnant ladies include childbirth, as well?

Yes. I am resident...I delivered several ladies, and I know everything about post-partum illnesses.

Elia and Rhaella were not pregnant at the same time; there's at least a year and a half between Aegon and Daenerys. And more importantly, Aegon's birth was before Lyanna was "abducted", thus there's no way he could be hers. In short, there's simply no way that Aegon and Jon could be twins.

Aegon was born in 282, a year RR started, therefore it hapenned long after Lyanna was abducted.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

@OP: Now can you prove the theory wrong?

[Ygrain]

Yes. I am resident...I delivered several ladies, and I know everything about post-partum illnesses.

Then I do not see how you could expect Elia, whose first delivery was already highly problematic, to fake a second delivery which nearly killed her - that would hardly be kept to one or two faithful servants and a presumed Martell maester (whose existence has never been even hinted).

[Lady Hornwood]

Aegon was born in 282, a year RR started, therefore it hapenned long after Lyanna was abducted.

That really doesn't change the fact that Dany was concieved during the rebellion, so after Aegon was born - Elia was pregnant and had a child before Rhaella.