Do you want Aegon to be a fake?

[danm_999]

Most people treat dwarves like freakish sideshow attractions. Aegon does not treat Tyrion this way. Tyrion is clearly smarter than Aegon. The only thing Aegon has o Tyrion is higher lordship status and Tyrions physical deformities. Exploiting this doesn't mean he lets Tyrion being a dwarf dictate his opinion of him. In my mind thats looking past his dwarfism. The fact he even listens to Tyrion at all suggests he looks past the dwarfism.

Aegon saying "You're a dwarf" when Tyrion bests him is akin to calling a baseborn "bastard" whenhe bests you

Which in either case means you aren't looking past it.

If Aegon truly looked past Tyrion's dwarfism, why is he mad when Tyrion suggests he can't beat a dwarf at cyvasse? Why does he scorn Tyrion's offer to defend him because he's a dwarf (which we come to see is irrelevant)? It's not hard to find people in the series who accept or like Tyrion but don't throw that shit in his face.

[Arakan]

He says "you're a dwarf" scornfully to someone who has volunteered to protect him. That's mockery.

It's not an isolated incident either.

Aegon does not look past Tyrion's dwarfism, sad to say.

No, Aegon does not insist that Tyrion is saved, Aegon insists he isn't thrown back in the water after Connington has already saved him when Yandry argues he should be. And that still doesn't preclude Aegon thanking Tyrion for possibly infecting himself with a fatal disease when he awakes.

Allright what is your point...Aegon is a dwarf racist and thus is an evil character or what?

You construct a case where Aegon looks as someone bad? Because he is emotional after a chess game, because he is ungrateful, because he is a dwarf racist?

Oh Jesus Christ...

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Which in either case means you aren't looking past it.

If Aegon truly looked past Tyrion's dwarfism, why is he mad when Tyrion suggests he can't beat a dwarf at cyvasse? Why does he scorn Tyrion's offer to defend him because he's a dwarf (which we come to see is irrelevant)? It's not hard to find people in the series who accept or like Tyrion but don't throw that shit in his face.

Youre objectively wrong. If I'm mad and call someone ugly, thats an insult. If I refuse to let them help me BECAUSE they are ugly, thats prejudice. Prejudice is judging someone negatively because of their 'flaws'. Insulting someones flaws in a fit of anger is not prejudice.

If Aegon was prejudiced he'd have nothing to do with Tyrion. This is literslly how things like sexism and racism work. "You cant do that BECAUSE youre a girl!" =/= "Youre a stupid girl!"

And doubting someones ability due to physical disability isn't prejudice. But I can see youre gonna argue your incorrect view anyway, so be my guest.

[danm_999]

Allright what is your point...Aegon is a dwarf racist and thus is an evil character or what?

No, my point (and hell, it isn't even my point, it's one I responded to) is that Aegon isn't some enlightened being who looks past Tyrion's dwarfism. He's better than some characters about it, he's worse than some characters about it.

You construct a case where Aegon looks as someone bad? Because he is emotional after a chess game, because he is ungrateful, because he is a dwarf racist?

I'm not saying he's fundamentally bad person, and I'm not saying he can't change, I'm saying he's a bit of a brat that so far has given me no reason to like him.

[danm_999]

Youre objectively wrong. If I'm mad and call someone ugly, thats an insult. If I refuse to let them help me BECAUSE they are ugly, thats prejudice.

But in either case, it means you aren't looking past their appearance.

Prejudice is judging someone negatively because of their 'flaws'. Insulting someones flaws in a fit of anger is not prejudice.

If Aegon was prejudiced he'd have nothing to do with Tyrion. This is literslly how things like sexism and racism work. "You cant do that BECAUSE youre a girl!" =/= "Youre a stupid girl!"

To be prejudice literally means to pre-judge. Like how Aegon pre-judges Tyrion is worth less than him in the fight against the grey men.

How does that fight go again?

And doubting someones ability due to physical disability isn't prejudice.

Doubting someone's ability because they're disabled isn't prejudiced?

Sure you don't want to rethink that one?

[Ygrain]

If Aegon was prejudiced he'd have nothing to do with Tyrion. This is literslly how things like sexism and racism work. "You cant do that BECAUSE youre a girl!" =/= "Youre a stupid girl!"

Lots of people throughout the history thought that women were inferior, yet it never prevented them from marrying them and having sex with them. Lots of people thought that black people were inferior, yet they didn't mind at all exploiting them for work, and aye, sex. Sexism and racism doesn't mean that you have nothing to do with those you despise, but that you despise them and think them inferior just for being who they are. Aegon can see Tyrion's abilities and there might be some use of it, but he still lets his view of Tyrion be shaped by his dwarfism, and doesn't have enough decency not to throw it into Tyrion's face needlessly.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

"Hey man, both your arms are broken. I doubt you can throw a ball"

Nah, I dont need to rethink anything. Youre taking things Aegon says in either anger or doubt and acting like it was a prejudiced attack. They werent prejudiced. End of.

[danm_999]

"Hey man, both your arms are broken. I doubt you can throw a ball"

Nah, I dont need to rethink anything.

Is Tyrion trying to throw a ball with two broken arms? If not, this might just be a faulty analogy.

Hell, we know it's a faulty analogy. We see Aegon is straight up wrong about Tyrion's ability.

Youre taking things Aegon says in either anger or doubt and acting like it was a prejudiced attack. They werent prejudiced. End of.

Wait, you're arguing you can't be prejudiced so long as your emotional? Huh?

[Ygrain]

"Hey man, both your arms are broken. I doubt you can throw a ball"

Nah, I dont need to rethink anything. Youre taking things Aegon says in either anger or doubt and acting like it was a prejudiced attack. They werent prejudiced. End of.

I'm sooo impressed by your argumentation.

Not being able to throw a ball with broken arms is a fact.

Presuming that someone cannot throw a ball because they are female/black/dwarf/blue-eyed/pock-marked/whatever is a prejudice.

[LuisDantas]

I don't care if he is truly a Targaryen, a Blackfyre instead or even something else entirely, and I would like to think that neither does the plot.

I kind of like him, too.

[danm_999]

I don't care if he is truly a Targaryen, a Blackfyre instead or even something else entirely, and I would like to think that neither does the plot.

I kind of like him, too.

Yeah I don't think it's going to really matter or get resolved. I think it's just something Martin put in for more in depth readers to ponder about.

[dragontamer]

It's a good thing you explained your reasoning. Its not like GRRM has done things COUGHrenlydyingCOUGHQuentynCOUGH that have basically no relevancy at all. And whats with this "shows up late" crap? Every book has introduced charcters with impacts that shoot other charcters plot points to shit. Honestly, blind hate much?

Renly's and Quentyn's plotlines aren't irrelevant. Renly's death had an impact on Stannis, maybe even greater than we have seen so far and also made the Tyrell army unite with the Lannisters, thus causing Stannis' defeat and the rise of House Tyrell.

Quentyn's death most likely will have an impact on Doran, probably choosing Aegon over Daenerys to ally with.

That said, I agree that it's not a valid argument to disregard Aegon just because he was introduced late. It's in the manner of his character that he is introduced late, if he is really Aegon he couldn't have been introduced early in the story, for that would spoil the mystery.

I actually like Aegon. We have been introduced to noble children, like Viserys, Sansa, Robin, Joffrey, whose personalities make Aegon look angelic. He is still young, he can certainly improve further and has exhibit no trait to make us think otherwise.

[yurana]

I kind of want Aegon to be real. Not because I like the character (we haven't seen enough of him for me to decide wether I like him). But for Rhaegar's sake. If Aegon is fake, than Rhaegar would be wrong about that whole PtwP thing. I really don't like the idea of him being another Melisandre who misread the signs and made some horrible stupid decisions because of it.

Also: The dragon needs three heads!

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't think that people dislike him because he is fake but because he has shown nothing.

Don't care. Just kill him.

:agree:

[King of Hats]

I don't mind really. I don't agree with people who say he showed up too late in the story or anything like that...They act as if there are only a few chapters left!

[Faceless Assassin]

I want him to be fake because it will make the ending I would like possible.

I don't dislike him nor think he should necessarily be killed. But he is too perfect to be the real Aegon (or the rebel who can take back the throne).

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I don't mind really. I don't agree with people who say he showed up too late in the story or anything like that...They act as if there are only a few chapters left!

I also don't think that we've already reached the graveyard shift of the story where it's all just about tying up lose ends and 7 forbid you introduce a new element. Three books is more than enough for a protagonist to become engaging if a reader doesn't have shut off their mind completely. Considering that Feast and Dance were supposed to be one book, he's de facto introduced after book 3 of 6, that's actually a pretty common point in the timeline.

Still, while I would not mind if he were real, I doubt that he is real. But hey, a Blackfyre scion who doesn't even know it makes for an even better story than a returning Targ prince, so I'm fine with that. And even if he were a random boy I could imagine that GRRM forging a cool plot from that, though it does seem the least promising of the three scenarios to me.

[Yukle]

I don't care if he is truly a Targaryen, a Blackfyre instead or even something else entirely, and I would like to think that neither does the plot.

I kind of like him, too.

This is my sentiment, too.

I don't really mind his existence, but with two books to come, I really can't be bothered with any more storylines being introduced because of how much are invested in the ones already going. It seems to have been a while since any plot arcs were carried out rather than the series being a string of new plot developments springing up here and there.

At the moment, it feels like the War of Five Kings was a storyline that was introduced, reached a climax, and has now been resolved. That took five books. Dany's storyline and Jon's storyline, which feel to me as the two other main arcs, feel like they haven't even built to the climax yet.

Any more stories at this point feel like a distraction. The side plots of the Iron Islands and Dorne also feel as though they are distractions from the main point. These storylines aren't bad, and they definitely add depth, it's just that there's only so much emotional investment you can make in an ever-expanding cast of characters before you sort of hope that half the cast just dies off to make things easier.

[Trident full of Dogs]

I like him... don't want him to be fake. Unless he's a Blackfire which would be very interesting and fitting to claim the IT. Red or black, you know... still a dragon!

[Mother of Mountains]

I don't dislike him as a character but I think he's a fake if only because GRRM likes the Wars of the Roses and these feature two fake Yorkist pretenders to the throne, Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck.

The first, Lambert Simnel, particularly reminds me of Aegon because people at the time thought him so well educated that if he had managed to gain the throne he would have made a better ruler than many who had gained it by right of birth.