Is Sansa's reputation forever ruined?

[JaegrM]

Yes, thed other Sansa thread inspired this, it's not exactly the same but made me think....

I don't see how she can ever really be acquitted of co-poisoning Joff, And Despite Joff's horrible-ness, Poisoning at his wedding guest right/etc is a major blemish on her standing.

Short of LF announcing the truth to the world, I don't see a way out for her on this one.

Even if she becomes the heroine a lot of people hope/believe she will become.... Westeros will kinda lump her in with the Freys on this one.

Realistically anyway.

Evidence that she's going to become 'Lady Iceheart'?

Evidence making it likely she wont be The Stark In Winterfell? (The Starks are super honorable and loved. A Poisoner would not be.)

[Minsc]

She still would have to be tried before she can be convicted of Joffrey's murder, and she seems like she has a number well qualified fighters on her side to fight for her in a Trial by Combat.

[JaegrM]

She still would have to be tried before she can be convicted of Joffrey's murder, and she seems like she has a number well qualified fighters on her side to fight for her in a Trial by Combat.

"acquitted" was poor word choice, I didn't mean by a jury, but simply her rep

Look at the Freys, everyone's just like "They suck" "Kill them" and so forth.

Just saying, does Sansa face a similar fate?

[danm_999]

I think there are so many other suspects flying around for Joffrey's poisoning (Tyrion, the Dornish, the Tyrells) that Sansa isn't exactly linked to the crime in the head of anybody but Cersei.

All she really has to do is wait for a new regime in King's Landing that simply stops caring. Poisoning someone doesn't have the same taboo as breaking guest right (in fact, Sansa using poison is totally in line with cultural expectations, it's a woman's weapon). I mean, if you can be pardoned for murdering a baby, the sky's the limit.

[Minsc]

"acquitted" was poor word choice, I didn't mean by a jury, but simply her rep

Look at the Freys, everyone's just like "They suck" "Kill them" and so forth.

Just saying, does Sansa face a similar fate?

If she wins her Trial by Combat that means the Gods have deemed her innocent, and as how breaking Guest Right is also a crime against the Gods everyone should accept that to mean she is innocent of the allegations. Additionally, one could argue that she wasn't a guest but a hostage(especially one whom Joffrey cruelly mistreated, thus not protecting her under guest right) thus that crime is not even levied at her.

[JaegrM]

I think there are so many other suspects flying around for Joffrey's poisoning (Tyrion, the Dornish, the Tyrells) that Sansa isn't exactly linked to the crime in the head of anybody but Cersei.

All she really has to do is wait for a new regime in King's Landing that simply stops caring. Poisoning someone doesn't have the same taboo as breaking guest right (in fact, Sansa using poison is totally in line with cultural expectations, it's a woman's weapon). I mean, if you can be pardoned for murdering a baby, the sky's the limit.

My understanding is Guest Right works both ways.

She Ate of their food and then "murdered Joff".

The Dornish and Tyrells haven't even been suggested or thought of by the mass population.

And even if a new regime takes over, that wont change anything.

Will the Freys be forgotten for The Red Wedding if control changes hands?

No.

[JaegrM]

If she wins her Trial by Combat that means the Gods have deemed her innocent, and as how breaking Guest Right is also a crime against the Gods everyone should accept that to mean she is innocent of the allegations. Additionally, one could argue that she wasn't a guest but a hostage(especially one whom Joffrey cruelly mistreated, thus not protecting her under guest right) thus that crime is not even levied at her.

I'm not speaking of a trial (doubt one will ever occur) I'm talking more about a general opinion of her and gossip

[Minsc]

I'm not speaking of a trial (doubt one will ever occur) I'm talking more about a general opinion of her and gossip

General opinion can evolve after her Trial proves her innocence, moreover as I mentioned I doubt many view as protected guest in her situation unless your name is Cersei Lannister otherwise she was abused hostage.

[JaegrM]

General opinion can evolve after her Trial proves her innocence, moreover as I mentioned I doubt many view as protected guest in her situation unless your name is Cersei Lannister otherwise she was abused hostage.

Really?

People thought she was jealous of Marge.

I doubt many know about the abuse based on text.

[JaegrM]

General opinion can evolve after her Trial proves her innocence, moreover as I mentioned I doubt many view as protected guest in her situation unless your name is Cersei Lannister otherwise she was abused hostage.

And WHERE is this trial talk coming from?

Did I miss something while reading? Or is this an assumption?

[Minsc]

And WHERE is this trial talk coming from?

Did I miss something while reading? Or is this an assumption?

I was assuming your talking about what would happen if she gets caught?

As I doubt if she just reveals herself as Lady of Winterfell that any of the Northerners will are that she poisoned Joffrey. Moreover, I expect her innocence will be proven before the books are finished as I doubt/hope GRRM doesn't leave her as a character as hated as Old Walder Frey.

[danm_999]

My understanding is Guest Right works both ways.

She Ate of their food and then "murdered Joff".

Sansa wasn't a guest at the Red Keep. She was a ward (in truth a hostage). Guest right doesn't apply.

The Dornish and Tyrells haven't even been suggested or thought of by the mass population.

Well the masses think it's Tyrion, but others suspect the Dornish; Oberyn specifically mentions to Tyrion if he wasn't on the hook, it would be him since nobody knows more of poison than the Dornish. The Tyrells as a suspect are also discussed in AFFC, especially when Margaery and Cersei begin feuding.

And even if a new regime takes over, that wont change anything.

Will the Freys be forgotten for The Red Wedding if control changes hands?

No.

The Frey's broke guest right openly and unquestionably and killed a popular King and his mother. Worse, they admitted it after the fact and justified it with a flimsy pretext about Robb turning into a wolf nobody believes.

Sansa's alleged role in the poisoning of a less popular king (which again, isn't as taboo as guest right) has been kept under the radar. Moreover, there are people suspected of comitting it ahead of her. The stink just isn't the same.

[Fire Eater]

But Joffrey blatantly violated guest right with her.

Sansa may be put on trial in KL, and if the QoT is there, her conscience will confess to save Sansa from a horrible death. Olenna will pay for her breach of guest right.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

Seeing its public knowledge that Sansa was a hostage and not a guest, anything she did or allegedly did at KL will be excused by the public

[JaegrM]

Sansa wasn't a guest at the Red Keep. She was a ward (in truth a hostage). Guest right doesn't apply.

Fairly certain she's considered a guest by the masses.

As I said previously, since people think she was jealous of Marge, The Lannisters seemed to have kept a tight lid on everything, and have a good PR person so far as it goes.

and that's IF Tyrion wasn't "guilty" The Dornish would be suspects.

As far as The Tyrells go, Paranoid Cersei has thought that they may be in league with Tyrion because of the coin, I believe that's the extent of it.

No one has seriously brought them up as suspects.

It's all Tyrion and Lady Lannister, maybe a little Dontos, but mostly the two former.

[JaegrM]

Seeing its public knowledge that Sansa was a hostage and not a guest, anything she did or allegedly did at KL will be excused by the public

It's not except by the north and the people who actually know.

Otherwise she's a guest.

And okay, Hypothetically saying she was a ward, look at Theon Turncloak Kinslayer.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

It's not except by the north and the people who actually know.

Otherwise she's a guest.

Who and where are these people that still thought she was a guest after her father was beheaded? The Lannisters know, the Tyrells know. Do you mean the commonfolk of KL? Who have been on the verge of rioting since COKs, dont see why they would think she is a guest. The Riverlands? They will give a Tully daughter a pass. Dorne isnt likely to view her negatively for killing a Lannister

[Jon Flowers]

_{I don't think Sansa had any sort of reputation to begin with, hence no good name to be tarnished. But in addtion to that, I don't see how being rumored to have been connected with the assasination of a figure as universally dispised as Joffrey could be seen as hurting anyone's reputation. If anything, I think it may give her a bit of unearned gravitas as a player in the" game of thrones" should she choose to become a participant therein.}

[Sasha Steelsong]

"acquitted" was poor word choice, I didn't mean by a jury, but simply her rep

Look at the Freys, everyone's just like "They suck" "Kill them" and so forth.

Just saying, does Sansa face a similar fate?

Only if the Lannisters stay in power. But I don't see that happening so she probably isn't doomed. Any other monarch could pardon her and that would be the end of it and they will spin a story to make her innocent in the eyes of the kingdom.

I would imagine it would also come down to whether the Tyrell part of the plot comes out, which I could totally see Littlefinger letting slip if he was trying to get Sansa to marry Aegon and thought Margaery was in the way.

[JaegrM]

Who and where are these people that still thought she was a guest after her father was beheaded? The Lannisters know, the Tyrells know. Do you mean the commonfolk of KL? Who have been on the verge of rioting since COKs, dont see why they would think she is a guest. The Riverlands? They will give a Tully daughter a pass.

Seems that only the women Tyrells know.

She was married to Tyrion, had a place of honor at the wedding, also- re-read everything Loras and Garlan say on the matter.

Public-wise to all the lords that are there for the wedding especially, she's definitely a guest.

And Also a thought just occured to me, once she marries Tyrion wouldn't her hostage/ward status be null and void?