Is Sansa's reputation forever ruined?

[JaegrM]

... Putting her to death for what? For killing the king — the king who never should've been a king and as such, no one, including Sansa, owed him loyalty or fealty of any kind — that Stannis himself was gunning for?

Stannis executing Sansa for Joffrey's murder without any ironclad proof is pretty damn absurd.

Guest right.

Murder.

Etc.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Guest right.

Murder.

Etc.

Again, show me where anyone in the books thinks of Sansa as having broken guest right.

Stannis is more likely to grudgingly pat her on the back than anything. Where you get the idea that he'd put her to death over it, I have no friggin' idea.

[JaegrM]

So you're saying that there isn't evidence or citation at all of anyone, ever, at all, in the books thinking of Sansa as breaking guest right, but we're supposed to just take your word for it?

Do better.

We know she didn't.

But this is about her reputation.

EVERYTHING we know about guest right suggests she did, ESPECIALLY if she's no longer a ward/hostage/whatever you wanna call it after her marriage

You're the one with the flimsy argument.

Side note-

I don't understand how I usually agree with what you post but we always end up disagreeing when we both post in either your or my threads

[danm_999]

There isn't one (I think) but based on what we KNOW, What I said is in fact the case.

So this entire line of attack is just circular reasoning?

Sansa isn't a guest. She lives at the Red Keep with her husband.

[JaegrM]

Again, show me where anyone in the books thinks of Sansa as having broken guest right.

Stannis is more likely to grudgingly pat her on the back than anything. Where you get the idea that he'd put her to death over it, I have no friggin' idea.

OH PLEASE

Davos saved his life and he followed the law and took his fingers.

Save for Needing the north, he'd execute her

[danm_999]

OH PLEASE

Davos saved his life and he followed the law and took his fingers.

Save for Needing the north, he'd execute her

Because Davos admitted to smuggling, and submitted to the punishment.

Do you think Sansa is likely to admit something she didn't do to Stannis?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

We know she didn't.

But this is about her reputation.

EVERYTHING we know about guest right suggests she did, ESPECIALLY if she's no longer a ward/hostage/whatever you wanna call it after her marriage

How can she have a reputation for breaking guest right when NO ONE in the story thinks of her as having broken guest right? In order for a reputation to be soiled, someone must be, you know, talking about it. So if no one is running around accusing Sansa of breaking guest right, how can her reputation be ruined?

You're the one with the flimsy argument.

You can't even come up with a citation backing up your claim.

Side note-

I don't understand how I usually agree with what you post but we always end up disagreeing when we both post in either your or my threads

Maybe because most of what I post makes sense?

[JaegrM]

So this entire line of attack is just circular reasoning?

Sansa isn't a guest. She lives at the Red Keep with her husband.

If you were famous for robbing banks, but no one mentioned it in front of certain people, the majority of people would still think of you as a bank robber.

Based on what we know of guest right, and how tales travel, it's a safe assumption that it's been brought up over dinner at a lot of places

[Minsc]

If you were famous for robbing banks, but no one mentioned it in front of certain people, the majority of people would still think of you as a bank robber.

Based on what we know of guest right, and how tales travel, it's a safe assumption that it's been brought up over dinner at a lot of places

Yes, but as danm mentioned she is not guest instead the event happened in her "home."

[danm_999]

If you were famous for robbing banks,

She's not famous for breaking guest right though! Literally nobody mentions it!

Based on what we know of guest right,

No, what we know of guest right suggests nobody with half a brain in their head would ever consider Sansa to be constrained by it. She's a known quantity at court, and people understand she lives there.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

OH PLEASE

Davos saved his life and he followed the law and took his fingers.

Save for Needing the north, he'd execute her

Davos was also 100% guilty, something that wasn't in doubt. Sansa is not guilty and the evidence against her is pretty circumstantial. Davos admitted to his wrongdoing. Will Sansa confess to a murder she didn't commit?

Why would Stannis attempt to punish Sansa for killing someone like Joffrey anyway? Hell, if she's completely cornered, all she has to say is, "Well I knew all along that he wasn't the real king."

[JaegrM]

How can she have a reputation for breaking guest right when NO ONE in the story thinks of her as having broken guest right? In order for a reputation to be soiled, someone must be, you know, talking about it. So if no one is running around accusing Sansa of breaking guest right, how can her reputation be ruined?

You can't even come up with a citation backing up your claim.

Maybe because most of what I post makes sense?

When no one in the story has mentioned it in front of a handful of POVs

As I said in another topic- Books arent available.

And I agree that most of what you say makes sense, and I almost always agree with it... Unless it's a thread you or I create and we both post in it, Which strikes me as odd

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

How can she have a reputation for breaking guest right when NO ONE in the story thinks of her as having broken guest right? In order for a reputation to be soiled, someone must be, you know, talking about it. So if no one is running around accusing Sansa of breaking guest right, how can her reputation be ruined?

You can't even come up with a citation backing up your claim.

Maybe because most of what I post makes sense?

Not that you need my help but.....

Is Sansa even technically a guest? Would guest rights even apply. Isn't she technically a hostage?

[ARYa_Nym]

I don't know about ruined but she was basically accused of being a witch which is often used to discredit females.

Polliver or whoever said he heard she killed the king then turned into a bat and flew away. I wouldn't be surprised if the common folk was spreading that.

I think the commoners preferred Margaery to her.

Among others it's being Lady Lannisters. None of the Northmen seem to be mentioning and when Stannis does it's negatively.

The marriage can be undone though and she can say that she was "unsoiled" by Tyrion.

[JaegrM]

Davos was also 100% guilty, something that wasn't in doubt. Sansa is not guilty and the evidence against her is pretty circumstantial. Davos admitted to his wrongdoing. Will Sansa confess to a murder she didn't commit?

Why would Stannis attempt to punish Sansa for killing someone like Joffrey anyway? Hell, if she's completely cornered, all she has to say is, "Well I knew all along that he wasn't the real king."

Pretty sure murder itself is also a straight up crime.

AND OKAY- ignoring the guest right thing for a moment since people don't agree with me-

Pretty sure murder at a dude's wedding and possible attempted murder is also a crime.

And Didn't Kevan say Husband and Wife share crimes?

Could be flat wrong on that one.

[Zman1863]

I don't think it matters whether she was a guest or not.

Either way she is currently suspected of having been involved the killing with the convicted Kingslayer, Tyrion. It will be events that remove the taint from her Sansa's repuation. The Targaryen claimants won't give a fig who killed Joffrey except to reward them. If the Old King's family really does inspire any respect and affection in the people as the Targaryens themselves always hope, I think the masses can be induced to overlook the nature of Joffrey's demise and the living "participants".

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

When no one in the story has mentioned it in front of a handful of POVs

This is getting sad. If GRRM wanted us to believe that Sansa's reputation was under fire over guest right, he'd include that in the story. Kind of like he's done with the people who HAVE broken guest right: the Freys. You're grasping at something that doesn't exist.

As I said in another topic- Books arent available.

Well I'll save you the trouble. You couldn't find the citation even if you had your books because it doesn't exist.

And I agree that most of what you say makes sense, and I almost always agree with it... Unless it's a thread you or I create and we both post in it, Which strikes me as odd

I ... really don't give a damn. Maybe we disagree because I don't think what you're saying makes any lick of sense?

[JaegrM]

Not that you need my help but.....

Is Sansa even technically a guest? Would guest rights even apply. Isn't she technically a hostage?

Wouldn't her home be The Rock or Winterfell still?

Tyrion doesn't technically live at KL does he?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Not that you need my help but.....

Is Sansa even technically a guest? Would guest rights even apply. Isn't she technically a hostage?

You're preaching to the choir, dude. She is a hostage, yes, and she lives in the Red Keep at that point. She's not there of free will.

[JaegrM]

This is getting sad. If GRRM wanted us to believe that Sansa's reputation was under fire over guest right, he'd include that in the story. Kind of like he's done with the people who HAVE broken guest right: the Freys. You're grasping at something that doesn't exist.

I also said "Realistically", by that I meant if this were a real occurence, according to westerosi habits and lifestyle

I ... really don't give a damn. Maybe we disagree because I don't think what you're saying makes any lick of sense?

Don't be rude