Petyr Patter Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Why does everybody think that The others are necessary evil ? in fact we don't know shit about them or what purpose they have! I'm tired of reading that everyone thinks the others are the bad guys and that they are going to invade and that Dany will destroy them with dragonfire etc.. that is just to cliche and simple for me I think there are the "heresy" threads that challenge that the Others are evil. However, what we have seen of them is general antagonism to mankind. The series begins with one unprovoked attack on a small group of Watchmen. All the existing legends suggest they are antagonists to mankind. Are they evil? That is a philosophical question that we aren't equipped to handle. What we do know is they kill people with regularity and without cause. Now, is Danaerys going to be the one who saves Westeros from them? I don't buy that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olibar Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Now, is Danaerys going to be the one who saves Westeros from them? I don't buy that either. I agree, but for a slightly different reason. I see Danaerys arriving at the wall sometime during TWoW to "save the day", using her dragons to drive back the Others, possibly after a breach of the wall. The problem will be that instead of finishing the job, she will then head off to take the Iron Throne. Either in attempting to take the throne or in defending it afterwards (probably now into ADoS), she will loose her Dragon advantage (maybe assassins, maybe maesters, maybe fAegon), and that will be when the real invasion of the Others begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys of Ur Draxa Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Are the Other's evil? JRR Tolkien's world, was black and white; you're either good or evil; GRRM's world is not black and white; you can be evil, yet good, you can be good, yet evil. Doing evil/good things doesn't make one good or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The.Smiling.Knight Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 They're evil in that they are hostile to humans. Even if we find out they're angry over something humans did thousands of years ago, nobody alive presently in ASoIaF provoked them. I'm interested to see how their story is told and what their motivations are - if they have any (perhaps this is just their nature). Either way, even if it's completely natural for WW to kill and zombify as many humans as possible, as that is part of their DNA, that shouldn't be a distinction worth worrying about for any of the humans. It seems, at this point in the story at least, as if the humans have no choice to fight, whether the WW are evil or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Is the battle at the fist of men the only example of current times where the Others have fought openly and in force? All other incidents seem of assymmetric tactics. This would tend to minimize some of the dragon advantage in war, as in Dorne. So, climactic battles with Others, maybe not often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arneld Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I guess that may depend on how far south they can go during Winter, if they manage to bypass the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaesterSam Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 * I thought of this as I was typing. I have no textual basis for it, but what if the WW can't reproduce on their own and therefore require these sacrifices else they face extinction. This oddly and eerily parallels the Greyjoy house words "We Do Not Sow." I've read some other threads on these forums about a Drowned God/Great Other connection. Very interesting idea. If they need human sacrifices for reproduction, this would be a neat parallel to the sacrifices required to hatch dragon eggs. MMD did tell Dany "only death can pay for life", so maybe this generally applies when bringing magical creatures to life? Alternatively, maybe human (Craster's) babies are needed for reproduction, but are not sacrificed in the process. Maybe the parallel is actually with the red priests, who start out as ordinary humans (slaves, IIRC) and are trained to follow R'hllor and carry out his orders? In this case, the Others would be the Ice equivalent of the red priests, with the Great Other (Old Gods?) the counterpart to R'hllor. This may also partially explain why they are only now showing up again after so long- much like the red priests, their power was insignificant until recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberKlown28 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The 'cause carnage for the top half of Westeros until people care, only to be burned by dragons' plotline seems a bit obvious. I'm hoping it's -too- obvious for Martin to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areo Speedwagon Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Very interesting idea. If they need human sacrifices for reproduction, this would be a neat parallel to the sacrifices required to hatch dragon eggs. MMD did tell Dany "only death can pay for life", so maybe this generally applies when bringing magical creatures to life? Alternatively, maybe human (Craster's) babies are needed for reproduction, but are not sacrificed in the process. Maybe the parallel is actually with the red priests, who start out as ordinary humans (slaves, IIRC) and are trained to follow R'hllor and carry out his orders? In this case, the Others would be the Ice equivalent of the red priests, with the Great Other (Old Gods?) the counterpart to R'hllor. This may also partially explain why they are only now showing up again after so long- much like the red priests, their power was insignificant until recently. Very interesting thoughts. I especially like the "only death can pay for life" part, because it kind of begs the question of what is the inverse? What if, in the case of the WWs, "only life can pay for death?" The wights certainly seems to be more 'living dead'-ish than Beric Dondarrion. He did say less and less comes back each time, but he's still conscious of that fact. The wights seem like full on zombies. So yeah, maybe for them, it's 'only life can pay for death." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rickard Stark Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I think that the Others will strike when the North is weakest, and the Wall will definitely be brought down in TWOW. If Stannis is successful in gaining the support of the North, which i think he will be if Rickon comes in time, then he probably will want to go down south to seize the throne, especially with the Tyrell/Lannister alliance deteriorating and the Storm Lands submitting to Aegon. With all the remaining forces of the North with Stannis and the Night's Watch in chaos, it will be the perfect oppurtunity for the WW invasion, although as others have already said, it will probably not be a full out invasion and occur at the end of the book as a cliff hanger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Dwee Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Not sure if this has been discussed anywhere, but does anyone else think that we may get a glimpse of the Others and the Land of Always Winter from a Benjen Stark POV?Or possibly through a Bran POV where he is viewing Benjen through Weirwood net?I think that maybe Benjen was headed to the Land of Always Winter on his last ranging. If anyone would have he skills to survive that trek I think it would be Benjen. He was First Ranger and one of the most respected members of the Nights Watch. Being from the north and a Stark of Winterfell he would be more inclined to believe that the Others would be making a comeback and he would know that the Watch and Westeros as a whole would not stand a chance against them without getting some info about them first.What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSmallfolk Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The 'cause carnage for the top half of Westeros until people care, only to be burned by dragons' plotline seems a bit obvious. I'm hoping it's -too- obvious for Martin to go that route. My sense is that it IS too obvious. The Others will breach the wall and invade.... you'll have a human force do thier best to fight them off, but I think the salvation of humanity comes in the form of the children of the forest, the "last hero", and AA... and not necc frmo Dragons. The impact to the story of dragons has to do with who sits the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readalot Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The book is entitled " The Winds of Winter," so if the Others do not invade, then there is no point to call it that. Yes, and "A dance with dragons" did not have dance 2.0. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readalot Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I think that maybe Benjen was headed to the Land of Always Winter on his last ranging. IIRC (just started rereading GOT), Benjen is off searching for Waymar Royce and his crew who were killed by the Others in the first prologue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I think that the Others will strike when the North is weakest, and the Wall will definitely be brought down in TWOW. If Stannis is successful in gaining the support of the North, which i think he will be if Rickon comes in time, then he probably will want to go down south to seize the throne, especially with the Tyrell/Lannister alliance deteriorating and the Storm Lands submitting to Aegon. With all the remaining forces of the North with Stannis and the Night's Watch in chaos, it will be the perfect oppurtunity for the WW invasion, although as others have already said, it will probably not be a full out invasion and occur at the end of the book as a cliff hanger. At the same time, historically, the Horn of Winter was not to bring down the Wall. It was to awaken giants. Yes, Mance thought it would bring down the Wall and a Flint at Winterfell mentioned it too, but that's not what Joramun ever did with it. Meanwhile, there are other ways around the Wall: 1) By sea 2) Gorne's Way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Dwee Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 IIRC (just started rereading GOT), Benjen is off searching for Waymar Royce and his crew who were killed by the Others in the first prologue.Doesn't mean that he didn't have an ulterior motive or that he found out what happened to him and decided to investigate further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Dwee Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I think the other invasion will be more like sporadic attacks and flurries of attacks on villages. Maybe with them coming on shore from the seas once the magic of the wall falls. Martin sure makes it seem like Sam has the horn of joramun and one wonders whether or not him blowing the horn from anywhere in the world would make the wall fall. I doubt that it would wake giants from the ground if it does work. More like it would cause some sort of earthquake and may require some sort of blood magic to do so. I like the theory that there is something related to the magic in the wall that is hidden in the depths if the crypts beneath Winterfell But I think that an actual army of others and wights attacking at once I think it would only happen after the wall falls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStarkIII Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'm shocked no one thinks the others have already invaded. I think they showed up during Jon's assassination.- Jon didn't feel the fourth knife only the cold.- Dead things were already in the water and the trees at Hardhome- We have already seen Others not far from the wall.Jon has been temporarily removed from the game so the Others can move past the wall. They move with the cold winds and now that cold has moved south it seems obvious that's where they will go next. "The Winds Of Winter."I thought the same...when Jon could only feel cold... that it was the others invading. didnt I think Old Nan say that the others could only be stopped as long as the nights watch was united and true? By killing Jon the nights watch isnt united and true and that was the moment for the others to attack.....hence Jon feeling the cold....well thats my theory anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monctonvike Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Many people, and I, believe that TWOW will have an Other invasion. If this is so, how far into the book do you think they'll invade and how far into Westeros? I am not sure how far they will get into Westeros, prophecy seems to at least say to the trident. I also wonder if they make their way into Essos at all. It will be winter there as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellcraines Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if the Others show up at the Battle of Ice and kill everyone on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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