The Winds of Winter , return of Benjen Stark ?

[McShrek]

Regardless if Benjem is Coldhands, I'm sure his fate will have to be dealt with on one point in the story.

He's a Stark, dammit.

There aren't that many left alive, and just having one "disappear" seems an unlikely waste.

[Thrice Drowned Veteran]

Isn't it a bit peculiar to even include this guy in the story if he's not going to return at some point?

It seems to me that so far, Benjen has served as a minor plot point in merely two events. 1) He was the Stark in Winterfell during Robert's Rebellion. 2) He was the leader of an ill fated ranging that brought wights to Castle Black.

This could really have been anybody, and did not have to be Ned's Brother. It could've been Rodrik Cassell if the character serves no purpose beyond book 1. If he needed a Stark in Winterfell and didn't have a brother, Ned had a mother who could've served as the Stark in Winterfell. Plus, he also has his Karstark cousins who are Starks for all intents and purposes. (Tangent: Anyone wonder why Harrion Karstark wasn't installed as the new Warden of the North, or why Robb didn't name him as his heir?) The Ranger could've been Joe Blow the NW Ranger. You didn't need it to be Benjen to be scared of Zombie Small Paul.

To answer the question of why on earth he is even written into the book leads me to believe we will meet him again ... alive or dead. Most likely alive. Why? Because it would be really lame if he was dead, because dead people are no real surprise in ASoIaF.

If Benjen stayed north of the Wall for too long, his chances are slim. Like, really slim. Where is he sleeping? What is he eating? How is he staying undetected by hordes of Zombies and magical supervillains? No, he is most certainly not beyond the wall. Therefore, we can deduce that he is somewhere south of the Wall. Now, this would mean he has broken his vows, so I doubt he went far. The furthest south he would ever go prior to this ranging, was Winterfell (which, I still don't understand how/why he was granted permission, but others aren't even granted permission to go to Moletown). The most logical location of Benjen Stark is Winterfell. However, he may also have stayed within the Gift, and possibly may have escorted Rickon and Osha to Skagos (Skagos are nominally under the North, but aren't good with the whole fealty thing unless it is with a Stark) where he would be able to convince them to keep his nephew safe. I seriously doubt Osha would be believed by the Skagos clans if they didn't have someone they recognize alongside them (although a direwolf would be a pretty assuring sign of not to mess with little Rickon)

So, most likely, Benjen is alive and in Winterfell, Atlhough, I'm not even that certain about this, because it is rather daft to think he would go undetected by Roose's Army. Although, one could deduce he is the real ghost of Winterfell, but this also leads you to wonder what Mance Rayder is up to? Soooo ... I guess we'll have to wait and see. So many surprises to look forward to (Did anyone notice Gerion Lannister's "dead-brackets" are missing in ADWD?).

[NongOfIceAndFire]

She might've meant "long time" as what would seem like a long time to Bran.

I don't think Martin is that disingenuous.

Cold Hands is seriously old, whoever he is.

That rules out Benjen, I'd much rather a glib Benjen who can gives us information on the Others, anyway.

I read somewhere that perhaps Benjen was killed, but warged into a wight's body... hence Coldhands. That explains the helpfulness, the black hands and that he (meaning, the walker corpse) died "long ago."

I would believe he's a Warg, it'd help out being First Ranger although keeping it a secret would require a considerable conspiracy or very selective use.

I'm not sure Martin would require that many intuitive leaps of the reader. Having said that Bloodraven is a multiple century stretch so who knows.

[nat655]

is it me or is R+L=J far too quickly accepted? Idk it has been hinted but it could just be a red herring. I told myself that Benjen was the mysterious ranger who took Bran to the last greenseer (Coldhands i think it was), but IDK I don't get why he wouldn't tell Bran, anyway I'm not sure he will even return this could just be one of those things forever left open. GRRM probably doesn't even want to decide HIMSELF what happened to Benjen

[WidoW101MakeR]

Last Jon Chapter ends with him walking north in search of his uncles bones to return to winterfell

[Overlord of Skagos]

as someone mentioned earlier...Prologue starts with Alister Thorne north of wall in some faraway wildling camp..Benjen comes to rescue..and we get idea of what Benjen had been doing through their dialogues..and benjen goes WTH when he hears jon is LC of NW and ROFLs, random attack by others happen..Ravens come to rescue..thorne dies..fate of benjen unknown.....

he can finally meet up with bran @ the cave and do some major reveal on Other's and their plans

[Dragon Roast]

Yes . The lower half of his face is covered in a scarf. Perhaps to conceal his identity ,or perhaps to cover some horrific wound. ( He has been killed. )

However , I do put a lot of weight on " they killed him long ago" .This is , I think ,in the same conversation where Leaf tells them she was born in the time of the dragon and has wandered the earth for 200 yrs , etc.,etc. So , even if 2 yrs. might seem a long time to an ordinary child in ordinary circumstances , in this context , I think it would rule Benjen out , even to Bran.

Mormont tells Jon that rangers sent out to find Benjen have found slashes that he made on trees as far as the stony highlands to the northwest of CB.

The Nightfort is to the west of CB , so even if CH led Bran directly north ( unknown?), they are somewhat to the northwest of CB. He tells Bran that the "back door" to the cave lies 3 leagues farther north ,down a sink hole.

The Styr's party sets out to cross the wall from the Fist of the First Men , which is northwest from CB .They cross at Greyguard which is far west from CB. I haven't made a point ( yet) of checking the description of the entrance to Jon and Ygritte's cave..but might it be the back door , or close to it ?

At any rate , Benjen has been tracked going in the same general direction as Bran , and not so " long ago ". In that direction , the CoTF/BR have 2 possible entrances to their safe haven and an agent in CH .. and they have a reason to help Starks.

I think there is something here. The books are filled with underground caves and passages. These are connected to the CotF, the First Men and the old ways from way, way south to way, way North. The Brotherhood Without Banners was connected to these underground places. There are deeper levels under KLs than the Black cells and deeper levels under Winterfell's hall of dead Kings and Lords. There are caves and tunnels under the Nights Fort and all over the North. And we know that the caves and tunnels North of the Wall connect to the caves and tunnels South of the wall:

"You know nothing, Jon Snow. It went on and on and on. There are hundreds o' caves in these hills, and down deep they all connect. There's even a way under your Wall. Gorne's Way."

"Gorne," said Jon. "Gorne was King-beyond-the-Wall."

"Aye," said Ygritte. "Together with his brother Gendel, three thousand years ago. They led a host o' free folk through the caves, and the Watch was none the wiser. But when they come out, the wolves o' Winterfell fell upon them."

"There was a battle," Jon recalled. "Gorne slew the King in the North, but his son picked up his banner and took the crown from his head, and cut down Gorne in turn."

"And the sound o' swords woke the crows in their castles, and they rode out all in black to take the free folk in the rear."

"Yes. Gendel had the king to the south, the Umbers to the east, and the Watch to the north of him. He died as well."

"You know nothing, Jon Snow. Gendel did not die. He cut his way free, through the crows, and led his people back north with the wolves howling at their heels. Only Gendel did not know the caves as Gorne had, and took a wrong turn." She swept the torch back and forth, so the shadows jumped and moved. "Deeper he went, and deeper, and when he tried t' turn back the ways that seemed familiar ended in stone rather than sky. Soon his torches began t' fail, one by one, till finally there was naught but dark. Gendel's folk were never seen again, but on a still night you can hear their children's children's children sobbing under the hills, still looking for the way back up. Listen? Do you hear them?"

All Jon could hear was the falling water and the faint crackle of flames. "This way under the Wall was lost as well?"

"Some have searched for it. Them that go too deep find Gendel's children, and Gendel's children are always hungry." Smiling, she set the torch carefully in a notch of rock, and came toward him. "There's naught to eat in the dark but flesh," she whispered, biting at his neck.

The descriptions of CB are filled with tales of the wormways that the Black Brothers use when winter makes it impossible to move around on the surface. This seems to be an echo of the caves and trails that the CotF use to move about safely out of the reach of The Others.

If anybody in the NW knew about these trails, it would have been Benjen Stark (old Nan probably told him all about them) . I could see him finding shelter in them, perhaps getting lost, or perhaps getting back to Winterfell, perhaps he'll meet up with Stonesnake (who I think will return one day) and together they are exploring and mapping the caves. I expect that Benjen was behind the dragon glass Ghost found. One way or another I think the wormways of the CotF will be important when the fight with The Others kicks into high gear. I think Benjen will play a part in revealing their importance.

I don't think he is CH (that honor would go to a much older Stark of long ago), but I do think he will connect with Bran. Perhap he'll show up in BR's cave or met up with Jojen and Meera as they move south through the caves looking for a way South. Perhaps we'll learn about it in a prologue from Stonesnake, or Jojen or Meera or Benjen or CH.

A lot is possible and I hope we'll find out soon enough, but I expect Benjen will make a return and that he will not be CH.

[kitkat]

Somebody mentioned on another thread that Mance was more than he appeared and thought he might have been Brandon Stark. Got me thinking...maybe not Brandon, but Benjen? And Benjen is in cahoots with Melisandre, or maybe another follower of R'hollar (who else can perform such a glammer)? Mance seems to know his way around Winterfell when he's sent there as Abel. And as a First Ranger, he would have had ample opportunities to be gone for long periods of time to be someone else. We all agree the Starks are very powerful, powerful enough that others familiar with magic recognize that power. We have been slowly introduced to the Red God and his followers throughout the series...why not drop one big bomb that a Stark with minimal book presence (but yet, major crackpot theories and speculations)ends up being the major hero of the story. So yes, here's my crackpot theory..BenJen is alive and well as Mance Rayder and we are in for a major jaw-dropping plot twist.

[zeppelincheetah]

I think it's reasonable to say that he is a warg like his neice and nephews. If bran can take control of Hodor maybe Benjen can take control of an other and walk it back north to see what's up. Maybe this could be in the prologue (or epilogue) of the winds of winter.

[Prince of the North]

I don't think Martin is that disingenuous.

Cold Hands is seriously old, whoever he is.

The idea that because Leaf happens to be long-lived means that she absolutely must have meant hundreds or thousands of years when she said "long ago" is just as big of an assumption as anything else ;)

[tirhaka]

Regardless if Benjem is Coldhands, I'm sure his fate will have to be dealt with on one point in the story.

He's a Stark, dammit.

There aren't that many left alive, and just having one "disappear" seems an unlikely waste.

i think it wou;d be an enormous waste also. i hope benjen is alive and human. i would like to know more of him

[Ser Carson]

i think it wou;d be an enormous waste also. i hope benjen is alive and human. i would like to know more of him

My sense is that Coldhands was the Night's King from Old Nan's story. That would explain most things about him. The Nights King was the 5th (I don't remember the exact number) Lord Commander of the NW I say that would've been a longtime ago and being a brother of the NW explains his clothing. He was in love with a female other which may explain why he turned into a wight when he died. I also think Benjen is a warg like many other people do and I think that and the fact he's seen a lot more of what is beyond wall leaves me to believe he could be more open to the supernatural and the beauty of nature then other people might. So, I fear the purpose of the Night's King story is to explain what has happened to Benjen. I think he feel in love with a female other and is planning on naming himself there King like Coldhands did so long ago. Benjen is a Stark and a brother of the night's watch just like the Night's King was. When we see Benjen again I'm not sure if he will be alive or a wight, but if he's a wight I have feeling he won't be zombie. I think he will still be himself, but he will be on team Others. I also think it is possible that Mance wanted to know from Theon where the crpyts of Winterfell were because he wanted to find the horn of joramund, but I think Benjen already has it. A King of the North killed the last wilding to have the horn it would make sense for him to take it back to winterfell not leave it North of the wall and all of this happened around the time of the Night King. My quess is Benjen is going to take the wall down and lead the others in war against man-kind.

This is just my crackpot theory. I think it makes more sense then Stannis being the Night's King who has no corrleation to the original night's king story.

[Ludd]

I feel sure Benjen IS alive and has a purpose

I agree Cold hands is the Night King

I have a suspicion that BENJEN is the last hero. He went North with ?12 companions, a sword a horse and a ?dog.

I think that Benjen will also be a warg and will have a dire wolf. Perhaps he found one when he set off or he always had one, just kept the wolf North of the wall.

He is a skilled ranger and could live for a long time in the cold as did ? Thorne. Caves and wildings could give him shelter as could the CoF and even giants.

[LittleJon Umber]

I hope he's alive but I always got the impression he is Coldhands. Yea I know there's stuff hinting that he isn't but it just always felt like him to me... the Uncle coming to the aid of his nephew when he needs it most.

Benjen = Coldhands, why else would he help Bran? completely out of character for a wight

[Prince of the North]

Benjen = Coldhands, why else would he help Bran? completely out of character for a wight

Well, he is working for/with Bloodraven so that doesn't necessarily make him Benjen on its own (although I believe Coldhands is Benjen, too). Also, I don't believe Coldhands was ever a wight. ;)

[Daphnaerys Seaworth]

I am also hoping Benjen returns in one way or another.I mean, he is one of THE mutha-freaking Starks!Of course, he has some role to play in all this saga.

Lord Rickard had one, Brandon had one, Lyanna had one etc etc.

Isn't it a bit suspicious how we know things about all the other Starks apart from Benjen?He has barely been mentioned but we are still stuck with him.Who is really Benjen?His past?Where is he?

I believe he WILL come back and he will play a significant role.It may be really small, but it will be important.

On a side note, ever thought that Benjen actually could have deserted from the NW and is leaving somewhere very North as part of the Wildlings? It would be a twist if he deserted, and it would be awesome if he and Jon meet by chance.

Edit:*living

Edit:Many may say that deserting doesn't really fit the Starks.Ok, but we've seen Starks (e.g. Robb and Catelyn) do things that may not be very Stark-like so Benjen deserting doesn't sound very impossible.Maybe he had justified reasons we cannot figure out at this point.One more reason I believe he may have deserted (if he's not already dead) is that he hasn't yet returned to the Wall.If he were still a crow, he would have noticed all the wildling clans gathering and getting ready to march South against the wall so he would have tried to get back and warn.I think he is somewhere inside the wildlings and hey, maybe he decided to actually go on some cover up mission like Jon, maybe he is waiting for the right time to get back, I dunno.

[bemused]

I don't think it's strange at all to think that Benjen would undertake a side mission , or even appear to have abandoned the NW, if it was for the greater good.

Qhorin and Benjen were friends , or at least had a good deal of respect for one another..this implies a similar outlook or depth of understanding .

Qhorin is willing to sacrifice himelf, and convinces Jon to sacrifice his honour in service to a greater cause ( in their case to find a way to combat Mance and the wildlings )... Jon was convinced to go along with a man whose motives he trusted and who he knew had a greater understanding of the situation than he did , himself ( even at the cost of being thought a deserter ).

I think Benjen would do the same , if the cause was great and he was convinced by someone with a greater knowledge than his own that a certain course of action was necessary ( in his case ,to combat the Others. ) In my opinion this authority could only be Boodraven and the Children of the Forest.

There are signs that the Wall and Winterfell are part of the same magical defense system against the Others and that the Stark bloodline is integral to it's optimal operation. A Stark is needed in both places ...and while any Stark is better than no Stark ( hence the boy Lord Commanders of the NW that Sam discovers in the annals) it's much better if the Stark is an adult ,able to be a war leader.

And so I think that Benjen has been rescued by BR/CoTF and sent back to Winterfell to play a pivotal role in reclaiming the castle and reinstating Stark rulership.

The extreme loyalty felt for the Starks in most northern houses may , in their minds , be due solely to good political governance , as the Liddle expresses to Bran.. but even that is , in fact ,rooted in long-forgotten magical necessity.

[Jon Targaryen the First]

I hope he's alive but I always got the impression he is Coldhands. Yea I know there's stuff hinting that he isn't but it just always felt like him to me... the Uncle coming to the aid of his nephew when he needs it most.

My problem with that theory is that the Child of the Forest said that Coldhands was killed by the wights long ago, while Benjen would have been killed roughly 2 years prior. 2 years would be nothing to the child, who is at least 200 years old if my memory serves correctly.

[davybyrne1995]

I was slightly devastated that it wasnt Benjen at the end of the show :frown5:

[Lord Dysnosus]

I think Benjen has a big future role - if not in TWoW, then in DoS. Way too important character just to disappear without a trace. He even may know something about Jon Snow's parentage as well.