Is Balon Greyjoy really dead?

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

Hang on a second.. I have a serious question. Why didn't Balon get a funeral? I know they probably just chucked his body into the sea, but shouldn't have Aeron done some sort of ritual, or said some words, or did it all happen off-camera? I mean.. he was a [self-proclaimed] king and all..

[King of Winters]

Hang on a second.. I have a serious question. Why didn't Balon get a funeral? I know they probably just chucked his body into the sea, but shouldn't have Aeron done some sort of ritual, or said some words, or did it all happen off-camera? I mean.. he was a [self-proclaimed] king and all..

They must have done it during ASOS

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

Wow I can't believe this thread reached three pages so fast! Ok I might as well come up with a theory of my own.

It seems quite obvious, though I have no "text" to back it up. But who nees text anyway. It's way over rated.

Euron, in a conspiracy Morqorro captured Balon, cut out his toung and galmoured him to look the the Dusky woman. Yea thats right, sick isn't it? Victorian is plunking his own brother.

Euron gets to humiliate both brothers AND declare himself King.. Works right?

ETA: Ninjad by Inspector. Well done my friend.

[King of Winters]

Wow I can't believe this paged reached two pages so fast! Ok I might as well come up with a theoryy of my own.

It seems quite obvious, though I have no "text" to back it up. But who nees text anyway. It's way over rated.

Euron, in a conspiracy Morqorro captured Balon, cut out his toung and galmoured him to look the the Dusky woman. Yea thats right, sick isn't it? Victorian is plunking his own brother.

Euron gets to humiliate both brothers AND declare himself King.. Works right?

ETA: Ninjad by Inspector. Well done my friend.

I'm surprised that is reached 3 pages so fast!

[TalalOfDorne]

Patiently waiting for someone to say Balon Greyjoy is Ashara Dayne.

[Sullen]

Balon Greyjoy is obviously Quaithe.

[Lord Illidan Stormrage]

Patiently waiting for someone to say Balon Greyjoy is Ashara Dayne.

Nah Balon is a secret Targ who is actually Missandey - that's why he dissapeared - to get close to Dany.

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

I'm surprised that is reached 3 pages so fast!

Sorry man, I ninja'd you end edited.. But right? I've written more thoughtful and serious threads that didn't break 2!

[Chaircat Meow]

Are you being serious, all jokes aside there is no way the IB could have held the North for more than a year.

Ok, lets see if you can support this bold claim.

Assuming the armies never left for the Kingsmoot, Robb had a very good plan to win back Moat Cailin and the Young Wolf has a track record of succesful good plans.

Whoa, Robb has implemented two successful plans and Balon only knew about one of them when he made his decision. Balon is obviously counting on Robb being frustrated at the Moat. Given it is supposed to be an almost absurdly strong choke point this is far from unreasonable.

Torrens Square is a Motte and Baily castle that could have been taken with as little as 1000 infantry, and I can't even remember the 3rd castle they took.

So ... prominent northern castles are not very strong and can be taken with very few men. This is a point against Balon's plan? They planned to move against more northern strongholds over a period of time in accord with Balon's plans.

The only reason the IB held the lands as long as the did was because of the RW and Ramsay sacking WF, which cannot be credited to Balon.

This is hardly so. Rodrik had 2,000 men and couldn't even flush the ironborn out of Torrhen's square. What makes you think he could defeat Victarion at the Moat or Asha at Deepwood?

I grant the activity of the Boltons and Theon's actions worked in favour of the ironborn.

The plan was horrible, had absolultey no chance of working, and would have 100% resulted with the death of Balon and most likely the death of his last heir (Theon) if he was still a captive.

On what basis do you make this assertion. The north can't strike back as they have no ships. Balon does not seem to care about Theon either and Theon was not his heir in his eyes, that was Asha.

So Balon is sacrificing his family legacy (the most important thing in this world) for the sake of a grudge 10 years old, in the vein attempt to hold the North for at most a year. Horrible plan.

Asha.

I have no idea where this one year figure is coming from.

[TheDarkOne]

I never questioned if he died. I did wonder more about how and if there was any help.

[Groat]

Whoa, Robb has implemented two successful plans and Balon only knew about one of them when he made his decision. Balon is obviously counting on Robb being frustrated at the Moat. Given it is supposed to be an almost absurdly strong choke point this is far from unreasonable.

Moat Cailin can hold backs armies from the South. The reason why it's such a strong choke is because The Neck is sworn to the North and when Armies have attacked in the past the crannogmen have supported the North. The attack from the South is a feint, the real attack will come from the West with the support of the Crannogmen as well as the North from Robbs bannermen. This plan will work, and even if Victorian had his full army, Robb would have taken Moat Cailin. I say again, Moat Cailin has it's strength when defending from the South, but is little more than a ruined castle when attacked from another direction.

So ... prominent northern castles are not very strong and can be taken with very few men. This is a point against Balon's plan? They planned to move against more northern strongholds over a period of time in accord with Balon's plans.

I don't recall the plan was to "gradually: start taking over castles, but either way yes this is a point for the North. There is no way Asha could hold this castle. Not only that, its several long miles away from the sea, so resupplying would be very difficult if not impossible during a siege.

This is hardly so. Rodrik had 2,000 men and couldn't even flush the ironborn out of Torrhen's square. What makes you think he could defeat Victarion at the Moat or Asha at Deepwood?

Had Theon not attacked Winterfell, Rodrik would in fact have taken Torrens Square with those 2000 men. Instead he had to march back to Winterfel to deal with a certain Turncloak. Instead of dealing with Theon however, Ramsay shows up out of the blue, betrays the Northmen, and sacks Winterfell. I supposed the widely believe bastard son of the Dreadfort popping up and taking out an army was all part of Balon's master and brillain plan. I say again, Rodrik would 100% take Torrens square back with the 2000 troops either storming it or with a siege.

On what basis do you make this assertion. The north can't strike back as they have no ships. Balon does not seem to care about Theon either and Theon was not his heir in his eyes, that was Asha.

I make this claim on the fact that within 1 year, at most, all of Balon's ships would have gone scuttling back to the Iron Islands because it was such a poorly planned invasion. Then, once they were spanked, I suspect the Warden of the North could use the 50 warships that the Manderlys have been making to once again spank Pyke and end this king of the iron islands. And this time no Greyjoy would be left to rule.

The 1 year figure came from the fact that it would take, at most, 1 year for Robb to march his army back and reclaim Moat Cailin. And it would take 1 year, at most, for Rodrik to siege Torrens Square. Most likely after Robb takes Moat Cailin though him and Rodrik would have stormed Torrens Square so you are right, the 1 year estimate is a little off. I give it 6 months tops before the Iron Born are gone from the North.

[Sullen]

Had Theon not attacked Winterfell, Rodrik would in fact have taken Torrens Square with those 2000 men. Instead he had to march back to Winterfel to deal with a certain Turncloak. Instead of dealing with Theon however, Ramsay shows up out of the blue, betrays the Northmen, and sacks Winterfell. I supposed the widely believe bastard son of the Dreadfort popping up and taking out an army was all part of Balon's master and brillain plan. I say again, Rodrik would 100% take Torrens square back with the 2000 troops either storming it or with a siege.

Do you have text to prove that?

Also, it's Victarion, not Victorian... I don't get why his name gets misspelled so often.

[Chaircat Meow]

SNIP

So we are going for the 'someone presents a good battleplan so I am just going to assume it is going to work and the other side is dumb because their foes have a brain' approach. I see.

Hardly convincing.

Robb's plan might have worked or it might have caused his first defeat. Balon had put his men in a good position to cut off most of the northern army and their lords and that is why his plan was a sound one. In war there are always risks.

[Chaircat Meow]

Also Robb's plan to retake the Moat was contingent on the fact most of the ironborn fleet would leave for the kingsmoot. See SoS p. 525

[Jslay427]

Ya I think Balon is One of a few characters who absolutely nobody wants to be alive.

[Light a wight tonight]

Also, it's Victarion, not Victorian... I don't get why his name gets misspelled so often.

It's a secret.

[Tagganaro]

Ya I think Balon is One of a few characters who absolutely nobody wants to be alive.

Yeah, Balon strikes me as the most boring and least cool of the Greyjoy Bros, which is saying something when Aeron Damphair is also involved. Vic has the badass idiot warrior thing going on, Euron has the insane sadistic creepy sorcerer pirate thing going on, and even Damphair has the fanatical religious thing. But Balon....All he has is idiot leader and prick father and person in general going on.

[Thendel]

Also Robb's plan to retake the Moat was contingent on the fact most of the ironborn fleet would leave for the kingsmoot. See SoS p. 525

So even supposing Victarion and his men had stayed, how were they supposed to eat, given that they are denied the option of foraging and thus reduced to a supply train from the sea (which is an antrociously ineffective way of supplying a garrison)? Being pinned this way would severely cripple morale, not to mention the decline in physical strength of the fighters if the food supply begins to dwindle.

Moreover, we're ignoring that in time Robb actually could have produced a fleet out of White Harbor, ships that could feasibly have transported a sizeable amount of northmen around the chokepoint, thus adding even more pressure from the north side if necessary. I really can't see how Moat Caelin could be held in such a hostile environment.

[Waylin Stark]

His death isn't challenged because there aren't any fans who love him enough to ignore obvious logic like in the case of Ned, Robb or Syrio.

He seemed to be an old rebellious fart who was a bit racist ("I'm Ironborn! You're Ironborn! We're all Ironborn! We do not sow! Blahblahblah ...") and polarized Theon and made him betray Robb.

And there are plenty of people who like Euron, and the implication that Balon was assassinated by a FM.