Northmen worshipping the Seven

[Stark in Winterfell]

Twice, I've noticed the showrunners portraying northmen as worshippers of the Seven gods of the Andals

1.) Rickard Karstark says soething like "I swear by the Father...blah blah blah"

2.) Robb and 'Talisa's' wedding is done by a septon, and they speak of the Seven; but Robb is plainly his father's son, so would marry the old way (taking her maidenhead 'neath a weirwood?), while Talisa is of Volantis, who are not Sevenites, as far as I know

Any other such sloppiness you've noted?

[lady m]

This belongs in the forum for the tv show.

[Hellfell]

There is no marriage ritual in the faith of old gods. That's why most marriages in the north are made under the light of seven. Ned and Cat did the same.

Afaik, Volantis is a city of many religions including the seven (maybe talisa is a follower of the seven), so it would be logical that talisa and Robb married according to laws and customs of westeros.

[Batman]

His mum is a seven worshiper and finding a weirwood is not easy south of the neck.

[lady m]

There is no marriage ritual in the faith of old gods. That's why most marriages in the north are made under the light of seven. Ned and Cat did the same.

Yes there is, and no they don't. You pledge your troth and say your vows before a heart tree. Ned and Cat wed in a sept because they married at Riverrun, where the Seven is followed, not at Winterfell. Marriage and marriage traditions existed in Westeros long before the Andels invaded.

[Minsc]

Is there anything in the books that states that Robb doesn't also follow the Seven?

[Hellfell]

Yes there is, and no they don't. You pledge your troth and say your vows before a heart tree. Ned and Cat wed in a sept because they married at Riverrun, where the Seven is followed, not at Winterfell. Marriage and marriage traditions existed in Westeros long before the Andels invaded.

Yeah you are right.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Robb and Talisa getting married by a septon didn't bother me nearly as much as it did others. Yes there are weirwood trees in the south, but they are harder to find. Also, his mother is a Tully and follows the Seven, no reason Robb doesn't follow both the old and new gods. The two faiths don't seem to contradict each other. Ned and Cat got married in the sept at Riverrun and people don't get all bent out of shape about that. Robb in the books surely married Jeyne W at the Crag's sept. Perhaps they should have thrown in a line for TV Robb to say "we'll marry before the heart tree in Winterfell as well."

Now, Karstark swearing by the Father, yeah, that's not right.

[The Monkey]

Maybe Karstark has been a closeted Seven-follower all along, and the truth slipped out in a moment of weakness?

[Minsc]

Karstark's Father comment could just be like how many Atheists will sometimes "swear" by God when they are frustrated, aka just a meaningless gesture to show their frustration or sincerity.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Karstark's Father comment could just be like how many Atheists will sometimes "swear" by God when they are frustrated, aka just a meaningless gesture to show their frustration or sincerity.

This. I'm more of an agnostic, really, but I know people (and I myself) who "swear to God", or some other religious proclamation from time to time. Saying somehong like that is not exactly indicative of the religious belief that person holds (or doesn't hold).

Robb's marriage in the "light of the seven" never bothered me. He always seemed more like Catelyn than Ned, anyway, from what we see of him in the novels.

[Rhaenys Sand]

Karstark's Father comment could just be like how many Atheists will sometimes "swear" by God when they are frustrated, aka just a meaningless gesture to show their frustration or sincerity.

I know where you're coming from but swearing on the Father is a a abit far though... I mean it's one thing if he says "seven hells" or something like that, but swearing by the father was a bit odd.

Oh and I didn't mind Talisa and Robb being wed by a Septon, I just wish that they did the cloak ritual ya know?

[Bayard]

This. I'm more of an agnostic, really, but I know people (and I myself) who "swear to God", or some other religious proclamation from time to time. Saying somehong like that is not exactly indicative of the religious belief that person holds (or doesn't hold).

Robb's marriage in the "light of the seven" never bothered me. He always seemed more like Catelyn than Ned, anyway, from what we see of him in the novels.

Yeah, but do you swear by Buddha or Allah?? no. You come from a Christian country, so you use the expression by God. Karstark should do the same..

[Minsc]

Yeah, but do you swear by Buddha or Allah?? no. You come from a Christian country, so you use the expression by God. Karstark should do the same..

To be fair saying "I swear by the Father" is easier then saying "I swear by an old tree that has a freaky face carved into it."

[Stark in Winterfell]

This belongs in the forum for the tv show.

Yea, sorry, I'm new to online communities, still learning my way around

His mum is a seven worshiper and finding a weirwood is not easy south of the neck.

Not easy, but not impossible. I think most great houses still have a small weirwood

There is no marriage ritual in the faith of old gods. That's why most marriages in the north are made under the light of seven. Ned and Cat did the same.

Afaik, Volantis is a city of many religions including the seven (maybe talisa is a follower of the seven), so it would be logical that talisa and Robb married according to laws and customs of westeros.

Maybe. What bothers me more is Talisa's speech patterns. She sounds exactly like a westerosi noblewoman. Shea, while not of noble birth, has a very heavy volantene accent. While this mAY BE splitting hairs, I think hairsplitting is what online forums are all about, parrticularly amongst us fanfolk

Is there anything in the books that states that Robb doesn't also follow the Seven?

Not that I remember, but it always seemed to me that Rob took after his father in everything but hair color

Robb and Talisa getting married by a septon didn't bother me nearly as much as it did others. Yes there are weirwood trees in the south, but they are harder to find. Also, his mother is a Tully and follows the Seven, no reason Robb doesn't follow both the old and new gods. The two faiths don't seem to contradict each other. Ned and Cat got married in the sept at Riverrun and people don't get all bent out of shape about that. Robb in the books surely married Jeyne W at the Crag's sept. Perhaps they should have thrown in a line for TV Robb to say "we'll marry before the heart tree in Winterfell as well."

Now, Karstark swearing by the Father, yeah, that's not right.

M

Maybe the Crag has a weirwood? Either way, I myself am not too bent about it, only splitting hairs as a great admirer of the world GRRM has created and, like many others here, don't want to see his world tainted by sloppy hollywood types (even if GRRM was once a 'hollywood type' himself)

[Khal-a-bunga]

Yeah, but do you swear by Buddha or Allah?? no. You come from a Christian country, so you use the exp<b></b>ression by God. Karstark should do the same..

Except the old gods have no names... So it'd be a bit difficult for Karstark to swear by them, I'd think. Not only that, but despite how brutal Westeros is in general, they are very progressive in terms of religious freedom and acceptance. In a culture like that, it doesn't strike me as odd that either of the things we were discussing would occur, and beyond that it seems needlessly nit-picky. Zeus' thunder, some people these days... ;)

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Except the old gods have no names...

"For the old god's I swear I will..." There.

[Helghan]

Maybe. What bothers me more is Talisa's speech patterns. She sounds exactly like a westerosi noblewoman. Shea, while not of noble birth, has a very heavy volantene accent. While this mAY BE splitting hairs, I think hairsplitting is what online forums are all about, parrticularly amongst us fanfolk

Shae is from Lorath not Volantis. Which means Talisa and Shae do not have to sound anything alike.

As to your OP regarding Karstark, he says: "I would carve out my heart and offer it to the Father if he would let my sons wake from their graves and step into a prison cell"

Im always amazed that so many took this as him being a worshiper of the Seven when its quite easy to see what he says there, or maybe just for me *shrug*. From the first time Ive seen that scene I always took it, that he would be willing to make an offering to a god he doesnt worship, if that would bring his sons back to life.

[Lord Honey Badger]

Just watched it there. Robb stuck in in jeyene and honour dictated a wedding. Westerlings have blood of the first men but they're westermen so ergo andal worship. I think book wise since there was no godswood on hand it was done in the light of the seven. Tv series is just pure aesthetics. Seven wedding in front of a tree. These tv watchers aren't like us book wankers :P

[TheAwesomeVargoHoat]

I didn't like Robb getting married by the seven. Hell in episode 10 of season 1 when they declared him the King in the North, Umber even says when it comes to declaring for Renly or Stannis that they have wrong gods. Not recasting Greatjon was a mistake when it came to the North in season 2 and now even in season 3. You get the sense that none of Robbs bannermen like him(well the only two that they show). That's a different topic though.