Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

BananaSpice

[Book Spoilers] Theon!

Recommended Posts

Keep in mind, all the people who told Theon to be grateful of his captors were extreme Stark loyalists. Theon had no reason to be thankful to the Starks, nor should he have been thankful to the father that gave him up. He's such a great character because of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm guessing you're not a Jaime fan either.

Jamie killed kids?

that's news to me. I assume you're talking about Bran being thrown out the window. No that was an act of true evil as well, but at least Bran got Jedi powers out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have mixed feelings on this. Even though I'm book fan I don't think the show has to do everything as is (most though), however I was surprised to see him and esp. this early. I get why they did it, waiting 2-3 seasons would be too long, but you get in a prickly situation here. If I'm correct and I might be wrong ADWD chronologically occurred way after ASOS. It makes no sense to have his torture being in it now. Plus, once you start mixing books where does it end? ASOS has SO much in it, I'd just like them to focus on it, now other stuff.

When we meet Theon in ADwD he`s already broken. He`s already Reek. In the book it`s easy to understand what`s happened to him through his flashbacks and descriptions of his personal well-being (not good at all). However, they can`t do that on the show. If we`re going to have any sympathy for Theon and have any idea of who Ramsay really is we need to see at least some of the torture, which does happen during ASoS.

Dance actually starts almost immediately after Storm, possibly with some stuff overlapping, so it makes sense to show us Theon now - otherwise it`s bad television.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jamie killed kids?

that's news to me. I assume you're talking about Bran being thrown out the window. No that was an act of true evil as well, but at least Bran got Jedi powers out of it.

He fully intended to kill Bran, and was surprised when he was told Bran might live. He's also threatened to kill babies, which he (most likely) would have done if his demands were not met. With a trebuchet.

As for Theon... Probably my favorite character. Such a delightful character to do a case study on.

When it comes to him killing the kids, the back of my mind always yells at me to say, "Bran and Rickon are better off with everyone thinking they're dead!" Assuming Ramsay doesn't know they're alive, which he could have learned from torturing Theon, Roose wouldn't know as well, which is going to put a -serious- damper on his plans for the North. But, I won't use this to excuse Theon's actions, because murdering kids is bad and stuff, though it just makes me think that it's very possible that that one action will end up saving the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, even in the books, the spearwives who initially had distain for him, saying the Stark words etc and what he did to the boys (or so they and everyone is led to believe), they were stunned at what Ramsay did to his body, when they saw. Death would have been mercy compared to what Bastard Boldon did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care how the Stark's treated Theon, which from what I can tell was pretty nice. Theon killed babies. I'll never forgive the bastard for that, lol

Well, it was an actual bastard's idea to do that anyway ... I actually find a lot of the "awful" things theon does (let's be honest ... These are all acts of war) bc he is desperate to make the right decisions, is failing miserably at everything and knows it, and is trying so hard to be like Ned/the Starks, but also Ironborn, and those two things cannot coexist. He is also wracked with guilt over things he's done (even in ACOK before Reek) ... He has nightmare and dwells on his mistakes ... He has more of a conscience than people give him credit for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to be talking with my dad a lot during this season. He came off last season with "Well good for this Ramsay guy, Theon deserves to be tortured." Curious to see if he comes around.

I have more sympathy for Theon in the show than in the book. In the book he seemed more callous and less regretful. This of course changed in ADWD--Reek's chapters were my favorite in the whole book. Also, I was a lot younger when I first read ACOK. To quote Dave Chen from "A Cast of Kings" (great show reviews), show!Theon's almost Shakespearean in the total tragedy and pathos surrounding his character. I felt so sorry for him all throughout the season, helped in part by Alfie's stellar acting.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing him this season. Poor baby! It'll be riveting to see him become such a broken wretch.

As far is flaying, the US version of Being Human had a vampire get skinned. This is what it looked like. Totally doable for HBO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boo, I've never thought of Theon as a villain, tbh. He's one of the most complex characters on the show. People just have their "Stark blinders" on, I think.

He ordered the execution of two innocent kids. He was a major villain like character in season 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm guessing you're not a Jaime fan either.

:laugh: Irony of Ironies, I dislike (book) Jaime, but feel bad for Theon. Not to say I like him, he is indeed a murderer.

That being said, Theon is deserving of murder, not torture, in my opinion. And unlike Jaime, I see him as actually repenting in his thoughts, when he thinks he should've died with Robb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boo, I've never thought of Theon as a villain, tbh. He's one of the most complex characters on the show. People just have their "Stark blinders" on, I think.

Uh, he murdered children. Innocent children who had done nothing against him, and whom he murdered purely to make himself look better. That's pretty fucked up. If that's not "villainous," I don't know what is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it was an actual bastard's idea to do that anyway ... I actually find a lot of the "awful" things theon does (let's be honest ... These are all acts of war) bc he is desperate to make the right decisions, is failing miserably at everything and knows it, and is trying so hard to be like Ned/the Starks, but also Ironborn, and those two things cannot coexist. He is also wracked with guilt over things he's done (even in ACOK before Reek) ... He has nightmare and dwells on his mistakes ... He has more of a conscience than people give him credit for.

still wont bring those kids back to life. they were innocent too.

sure lets forgive Theon for killing these two little boys, he had to looks strong in front of his men, lol

there's only two things I can never forgive a character for, rape and harming kids. I'm pretty open about anything else, but those are too universal wrongs in my book

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far is flaying, the US version of Being Human had a vampire get skinned. This is what it looked like. Totally doable for HBO.

You're forgetting the Buffy season 6 Willow insta flaying of Warren:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scenes like that make me wish I hadn't read the books :drunk:

Instead I tried to forget everything I know and will try to be surprised at what will inevitably happen next...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't want to go off topic, but just need to clarify some things:

He was taken, yes. Did the Starks mistreated him? Yeah, blood is thicker than water, but sometimes, there are some people who stick closer than family. He can obviously choose his family over the Starks, but does he need to betray those who treated him as their own? Yeah, he can't refuse his family and he want to prove himself. Did he made the right decision? Or, did his true family supported his decision when he took Winterfell?

How did Robb and the Lannisters get into here? Or, how being a Greyjoy a bad guy? I was only saying Theon deserved a punishment, but not to be tortured in the hands of Ramsay (who by the way, not fit to execute justice of any kind). If Theon was to be punished, let someone do it who would give him a fair trial and just punishment. Would you like Ramsay to be your judge? I don't think he deserved that kind of gruesome torture, and Robb would never approve that either. Theon was more of an unfortunate victim of Ramsay than a wrongdoer who received his just punishment. I hope that's clear enough. B)

Back to the topic.

True, but what I meant with the Robb part is, if Theon deserves some kind of punishment, robb clearly does too. He is the biggest traitor in the books. He should have gone to Stannis. And he killed hundreds maybe thousands of innocent people.

And about the punishment of Theon. Imo, he got that before he committed the crime. Being a prisoner. And maybe he still deserves some punishment but can't decide what kind. And about the death's of the orphans, part of the blame is that of Bran and co, for leaving. Theon wouldn't have hurt them and still they walk away (I understand them too).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a Stark lover all the way, hence the name, and I was really pissed about Theon's treason and 'shenanigans' in Winterfell, but I never thought he deserved anything Ramsay did to him. He is just tragic, soooo tragic and I hope we will get all important parts of his story on screen, so the non readers get it and not think he's getting what he deserves. I think Alfie's doing a great job, the burning-of-the-letter scene in the season 2 was just heartbreaking, made me tear up, and as someone said, they better give him an Emmy if he continues being this good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to throw it out there, I'm not sure we'll get "Reek" as such. Sure, Ramsay will break Theon, even make him forget his name, but will he be calling himself Reek and making up his little rhymes? As Ramsay never posed as Reek, will the unsullied be confused?

Maybe he'll adopt "Boy" as his new name, if that's the guise Ramsay is under.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theon is constantly feeling guilty and questioning himself in ACOK. He's also constantly trying to justify what he's doing and is convincing himself that he's being just / doing the right thing - this shows a major conscience and that he isn't an evil person at heart. He has his own men whipped for raping a woman who is basically nothing to him / lowly, for example. His regret comes across in the show, as well. He's easily influenced by others, which doesn't help. He basically just keeps digging the hole deeper and deeper. Even if it weren't for ADWD/Reek/Ramsay I would think he is sympathetic. Maybe that's just me, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to be talking with my dad a lot during this season. He came off last season with "Well good for this Ramsay guy, Theon deserves to be tortured." Curious to see if he comes around.

I have more sympathy for Theon in the show than in the book. In the book he seemed more callous and less regretful. This of course changed in ADWD--Reek's chapters were my favorite in the whole book. Also, I was a lot younger when I first read ACOK. To quote Dave Chen from "A Cast of Kings" (great show reviews), show!Theon's almost Shakespearean in the total tragedy and pathos surrounding his character. I felt so sorry for him all throughout the season, helped in part by Alfie's stellar acting.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing him this season. Poor baby! It'll be riveting to see him become such a broken wretch.

As far is flaying, the US version of Being Human had a vampire get skinned. This is what it looked like. Totally doable for HBO.

game of thrones doesnt have the budget for that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

game of thrones doesnt have the budget for that

Isn't that mostly make-up as oppopsed to CGI? And they'd only have to show a finger or two, right? ... however, I think it's much more horrifying and clever to show less with quick cuts / sounds / implications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×