Jaime Lannister's death

[Minsc]

It's all setup for UnJaime. UnJaime will follow up, in a grotesquely warped and distorted way, on all the character developments of Jaime.

Who is going to resurrect Jaime? As LS isn't going to give him the kiss of life for sure, and I doubt Thoros likes Jaime enough to do it either.

[C0bR]

He is much more useful to LS alive. I don't believe his death is tied to Cersei either. That's just a whole lot of sentimental BS and he has made it quite clear that he is done with her.

[Alhazred]

Who is going to resurrect Jaime?

Rh'llor, primarily (I don't really buy that "he doesn't exist" stuff). But through what intermediary? Not sure. There are lots of possibilities, and no real need for me to tie myself down.

Perhaps Qyburn will be involved somehow. Did you recall that Qyburn was involved in healing Jaime's stump? Surely that cannot be a good thing.

As LS isn't going to give him the kiss of life for sure, and I doubt Thoros likes Jaime enough to do it either.

UnBrienne might do it. Kill him. Then kiss him.

But who's to say? Did Beric really like Catelyn enough to kiss her 3 day old corpse? Some force or entity to inspired him to do that ... for reasons of its own.

[Minsc]

UnBrienne might do it. Kill him. Then kiss him.

But who's to say? Did Beric really like Catelyn enough to kiss her 3 day old corpse? Some force or entity to inspired him to do that ... for reasons of its own.

I doubt Brienne is dead seeing how it has been confirmed that she said sword.

Beric didn't because he was tired of living and because he respected Catelyn as Ned's wife, aka the person who charged him on his mission. Meanwhile, neither LS or Thoros have any positive feelings towards Jaime.

[Alhazred]

I doubt Brienne is dead seeing how it has been confirmed that she said sword.

Sorry, but that fits perfectly with my theory, seeing how GRRM has spoken in interviews about the undead (UnCat & UnBeric) being driven by a sense of mission.

The word "sword" symbolizes acceptance of a mission: "Take the Sword and Kill the Kingslayer". It also parallels a mission Brienne had in life (the hunt for Renly's killer).

Similarly, vengeance has warped Catelyn's actions throughout her whole POV, culminating in a final vengeful act just before her death: the murder of an innocent. This final act, like Brienne's final word, foreshadows her undead mission.

Beric didn't because he was tired of living and because he respected Catelyn as Ned's wife, aka the person who charged him on his mission.

Sure. You can rationalize it. And if Jaime becomes undead, no doubt there will be reasons in his case as well.

[Minsc]

-snip-

Jaime might be stupid, but I am sure he would be able to realize if Brienne was walking around with a broken neck.

[Alhazred]

Jaime might be stupid, but I am sure he would be able to realize if Brienne was walking around with a broken neck.

????

Obviously, if he sees her walking around at all, such evidence would normally suggest that her neck has not been broken. Also, death by hanging need not involve a broken neck.

[Miryana]

Similarly, vengeance has warped Catelyn's actions throughout her whole POV, culminating in a final vengeful act just before her death: the murder of an innocent. This final act, like Brienne's final word, foreshadows her undead mission.

I don't see Catelyn as vengeful. Apart from the Jon debate that's about her cold resentment rather than active mistreatment of him, I can't think of any examples right now. She kidnapped Tyrion after she was noticed because doing nothing and letting the Lannisters learn about her secret visit was more dangerous (and while there's endless threads about whether this was stupid or not, she would have let her son's supposed attacker go if she could have remained anonymous). After Ned's death, she was arguing for peace when Robb was crowned. Despite what Cersei did, Cat was able to see her as a mother too. She went behind Robb's back for the chance to see her daughters again over keeping Jaime imprisoned or killing him. When Cat kills the Frey and is then resurrected as Stoneheart, it's a tragedy because she was an advocate for peace but has now been broken by her losses to such a degree that she chooses harsh justice rather than mercy. Vengefulness is a change in her character rather than an already existing trait taken to extremes.

[Minsc]

????

Obviously, if he sees her walking around at all, such evidence would normally suggest that her neck has not been broken. Also, death by hanging need not involve a broken neck.

Only if the BWB decided to be pointlessly cruel and set the noose so that it would slowly suffocate her instead of going for the more efficient breaking her neck route.

[Alhazred]

I don't see Catelyn as vengeful.

As distinct from UnCat? Yes, by that comparison it's almost night and day. But there have been hints.

Apart from the Jon debate that's about her cold resentment rather than active mistreatment of him

Nonetheless, she gives hints of vengeful tendencies.

She kidnapped Tyrion after she was noticed because doing nothing and letting the Lannisters learn about her secret visit was more dangerous ...

You're rationalizing. But that's not the main reason. Nor, by itself, is it a sufficient reason.

This is Catelyn at the crossroads - duty to the north, vengeance to the east.

After Ned's death, she was arguing for peace when Robb was crowned.

Yes. She cares about her children. There are two sides to Catelyn. UnCat reflects only one of them.

[Alhazred]

Only if the BWB decided to be pointlessly cruel and set the noose so that it would slowly suffocate her instead of going for the more efficient breaking her neck route.

I don't see that it makes a difference. If Jaime sees her walking around, he will (perhaps wrongly) assume she is not dead. I don't see the point in quibbling over the cause of death.

[Minsc]

You're rationalizing. But that's not the main reason. Nor, by itself, is it a sufficient reason.

This is Catelyn at the crossroads - duty to the north, vengeance to the east.

If she only cared about vengeance at that moment then she wouldn't have attempted hiding from him. Moreover, she makes a point to protest against Lysa's mistreatment of Tyrion.

Yes. She cares about her children. There are two sides to Catelyn. UnCat reflects only one of them.

She is still looking for her daughters even as LS.

I don't see that it makes a difference. If Jaime sees her walking around, he will (perhaps wrongly) assume she is not dead. I don't see the point in quibbling over the cause of death.

A broken neck is noticeable, Jaime is smart enough to notice something is amiss if that had happened to her.

[Jamie Lannister]

If the zombie kills him then how can he live long enough to throttle his sister and punc- uh, kick some sense into his brother?

[LordStoneheart]

Is the zombie kills him then how can he live long enough to throttle his sister and punc- uh, kick some sense into his brother?

Quite simply, he won't do either no matter what people think Maggy the Frog meant.

[Castellan]

Re mechanisc of zombie-ism - Lady Stoneheart could easily kill him, or Blackfish could, if he has fetched up at the BWB (and has already said he'd like to take that golden sword and cut out Jaime's black heart or something like that) or Brienne, if this duel crap people believe in happens. Then Thoros might revive him or LS might revive him and give him a mission. LS having killed him to teach him a lesson and revived him because she still sees something in him and a hope of getting Sansa back.

[rhagnar16]

And what about uncat giving the life kiss to jaime or brienne. Indeed this immortality can Be seen as curse more than a bless it could Be the ultimate medium for cat to make jaime respect his Word (from her point of view)

Oops i've just seen it is more or less what castellan Said sorry

[Alhazred]

If she only cared about vengeance at that moment then she wouldn't have [...]

But I never said she ONLY cared about vengeance at that moment. That's the difference between Cat and UnCat.

A broken neck is noticeable [...]

[shrug] Then perhaps she does not have a broken neck. But he certainly does notice that she looks like hell.

[Alhazred]

And what about uncat giving the life kiss to jaime or brienne. Indeed this immortality can Be seen as curse more than a bless it could Be the ultimate medium for cat to make jaime respect his Word (from her point of view)

Oops i've just seen it is more or less what castellan Said sorry

Indeed. And given the connection that GRRM has made between having a "mission" and what it is that drives the undead, Jaime's "oath" or "mission" to find Catelyn's girls may be further foreshadowing of his undead status.

Remember the "shadows" in Bran's dream? Both seemed to be hovering over or threatening the 2 girls. They were: the shadow in golden armor (Un-Jaime); and the shadow with the terrible face of a hound (Un-Brienne).

[rhagnar16]

Remember the "shadows" in Bran's dream? Both seemed to be hovering over or threatening the 2 girls. They were: the shadow in golden armor (Un-Jaime); and the shadow with the terrible face of a hound (Un-Brienne).

Hem i think the shadow with the houd face may Be Sandor I imagine Brienne Alive or dead but not undead !

[Alhazred]

Hem i think the shadow with the hound face may Be Sandor

Un-Gregor appears in the same vision. At this point, Sandor is no longer "The Hound".

Sandor and "The Hound" have parted ways. Yeah, he could return to it, but it is hard to see the point of the plot going round in circles like that.