Jaime Lannister's death

[imrastro]

Ah ... but that's not what I predicted.

It's all setup for UnJaime. UnJaime will follow up, in a grotesquely warped and distorted way, on all the character developments of Jaime.

Nope. I don't see this story going in the direction of multiple zombie characters.

[Alhazred]

Nope. I don't see this story going in the direction of multiple zombie characters.

Well. I don't want to give away any spoilers. Perhaps you should stay out of these forums until you finish reading the prologue chapter of Book 1.

[LordStoneheart]

Well. I don't want to give away any spoilers. Perhaps you should stay out of these forums until you finish reading the prologue chapter of Book 1.

Those are Ice Wights, not the same thing. Doesn't apply to your UnBrienne/Jaime theories.

[Alhazred]

Those are Ice Wights, not the same thing.

I'm just addressing the objection raised. His words were "multiple zombies".

Doesn't apply to your UnBrienne/Jaime theories.

Well then, voice a different objection. Multiple fire zombies? We've already had 2. Both the 2 fire-zombies we have seen have been called "shadows". And we have prophesies regarding those:

- The shadows are here to dance.

- The shadows are here to stay.

- The shadow with the terrible face of a hound.

- The shadow in golden armor.

- The figure (shadow) in armor made of stone.

- The ghost grass from the shadowlands which kills and replaces the living grass, and glows with the souls of the damned, till it covers the entire earth, at which point all life will end.

- Then there's Brienne's dream, where she watches helplessly as a SHADOW kills Jaime. This may be her own trapped soul watching helplessly as her shadow-occupied body slays Jaime.

[TheReal_Rebel]

He will kill Cersei, and then commit suicide. Though I want him to die slowly and painfully.

My feelings exactly! Though I differ a bit on the circumstances.

I think all the Lannisters but Tyrion--if he even is one--are fated for extinction, given the foretelling of Cersei's & their children's fate.

And even if Jaime gets Brienne preggers the child would not be a Lannister unless he marries her. Could happen,

But I see him dying with his hands around Cersei's throat, then dying himself as the White Walkers take Kings Landing. They'll make wonderful Zombies.

[Castellan]

Nope. I don't see this story going in the direction of multiple zombie characters.

I would prefer it didn't, but can't ignore Beric and his flaming sword and the fact that there is a chain from Beric to Cat that could go on to others, and two others are about to arrive back at her headquarters.

Where does Bran dream about a shadow in golden armour and a shadow with the face of a hound hovering over the girls?

[Danelle]

Where does Bran dream about a shadow in golden armour and a shadow with the face of a hound hovering over the girls?

In GOT, after the fall, Bran has a rather interesting dream/vision.

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armoured like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armour made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood

There are several theories in regards the identities of the hound, the golden knight and the giant.

The Hound most likely is Sandor, the Giant either Gregor or LF, the man in the golden armour Jaime or Oberyn.

[Alhazred]

There are several theories in regards the identities of the hound, the golden knight and the giant.

The Hound most likely is Sandor, the Giant either Gregor or LF, the man in the golden armour Jaime or Oberyn.

The best guess for the Giant is Robert Strong (LF is a huge stretch). And if we read the vision as suggesting contemporaneous elements, then that rules out Oberyn too (unless we hold out for Un-Oberyn). And, in that light, the "most likely" identity of "the Hound" is whoever is wearing the hound-helm now or at some future date. And there is no reason to say this is "most likely" to be Sandor.

[Danelle]

The best guess for the Giant is Robert Strong (LF is a huge stretch). And if we read the vision as suggesting contemporaneous elements, then that rules out Oberyn too (unless we hold out for Un-Oberyn). And, in that light, the "most likely" identity of "the Hound" is whoever is wearing the hound-helm now or at some future date. And there is no reason to say this is "most likely" to be Sandor.

There are different interpretations to the vision, it has even been suggested that it was a foreshadowing of Sandor defeating Gregor during the Hand's Tourney and later Oberyn fighting Gregor.

Some people believe that the vision has already been fullfilled.

Personally I think that the giant is LF, Sandor is the man with the terrible face of the Hound and of course the golden and beautiful man is Jaime.

Then again anything is possible.

[Alhazred]

There are different interpretations to the vision [...]

True. Nobody can force you to have a discussion about the relative merits of different interpretations if you don't want to have one.

it has even been suggested that it was a foreshadowing of Sandor defeating Gregor during the Hand's Tourney and later Oberyn fighting Gregor.

Some people believe that the vision has already been fullfilled.

These simply don't fit. I could give reasons, but you are probably not interested.

Personally I think that the giant is LF, Sandor is the man with the terrible face of the Hound and of course the golden and beautiful man is Jaime.

Sure. But I have already indicated an objection to this theory, and you have not responded to the point I raised.

I could just as easily say that the giant is Tommen, because, though he is small, he has a giant heart, and he has armor made of stone because UnGregor is his sworn shield, and the black blood under his visor indicates that he merely a figurehead that masks bloody deeds done in his name.

Then again anything is possible.

Sure, sure, sure. And, by that logic, you must concede that my Tommen theory is possible too.

[imrastro]

Well. I don't want to give away any spoilers. Perhaps you should stay out of these forums until you finish reading the prologue chapter of Book 1.

Perhaps you shouldn't be rude? The fact that there are zombies/un-dead in the narrative does not mean that several major characters are going to turn into them. I don't find that consistent with the books as a whole. But I won't suggest you should read them before posting since I find that needing to resort to personal attacks is an indicator of a failed argument. Generally, I've found these boards to be polite.

[Alhazred]

Perhaps you shouldn't be rude?

It's just a bit of humor. You claimed that you cannot see multiple zombies in the series. If I take that literally, it implies you have not read very far.

Of course, you really did not mean that. But it is anyone's guess what you DID mean. I merely used humor to point that out.

The fact that there are zombies/un-dead in the narrative does not mean that several major characters are going to turn into them.

Nobody claimed to know for certain what is going to happen. But you said you could not SEE multiple zombies happening (even though they have already happened). I'm not sure what you meant. So I merely addressed what you said. With a joke.

I don't find that consistent with the books as a whole. But I won't suggest you should read them before posting since I find that needing to resort to personal attacks is an indicator of a failed argument.

I did not resort to any personal attacks. I merely responded to your words.

Of course, you are free to explain what you really meant. And we can move on from there.

If I understand you right, you are revising your prediction to be that you cannot see "several major characters" becoming zombies? What is your definition of a "major character"? And how many is "several"? And are you merely saying that this might not necessarily happen, or that you cannot imagine it occurring?

[Castellan]

Just brainstorming the words alone, without trying to fit it into events, I'd see the hound as Sandor - terrible face - and dark as ash which evokes fire. Sandor has 'survived a death' in the sense that he is officially dead and Elder Brother (is that his title?) sees him as re-born or being re-born on the Quiet Isle. The giant I would see as Gregor in his new form of Robert Strong. The dark black blood in the giant also sounds like the blood in Beric suits an undead Gregor. But why is he armoured in stone? A 'giant armoured in stone' sounds like a standing rock or castle, not a person. Unless he is armoured in stone because he currently resides in the dungeons.??? (It could be argued that it ironically refer to Littlefinger given that Petyr means rock and the Fingers are rocks and Littlefinger is far from a giant but like Tyrion, can be said to cast a long shadow. And in fact, I see him as quite empty and evil.) Armoured in the sun golden and beautiful - first thought would be Jaime. Jaime is the only person in the book famous for his golden armour and golden good looks. So this could be three types of undead people, if Jaime ends up being revived like Beric. Had I not learned about this quote in an 'undead' thread I would just have just seen them as three significant players. If you saw the giant as Littlefinger then all three are involved in the welfare (or not) of the girls. Arya has been in the Hounds custody and Sansa in Lttlefingers and Jaime may find one of both of them. However, I'm inclined to go with the obvious and see the giant as Robert Strong.

I think the events cannot be contemporaneous - when did Ned argue with Robbert, his face etched in grief, - the only time I can think of is about whether to assassinate Dany. It doesn't seem to tally with the confrontation with Cersei and Robert about Joffrey, Arya & Micah, the other time he argued with him. Sansa sobbing herself to sleep would relate to the period after Ned died, wouldn't it? Arya is interesting because she is watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. This could relate to Arya anytime while on the run, espcially in Harranhal, but to me describes her better once she has become an assassin.

Anyway this is all slightly off the track of the thread but I found this dream interesting.

[Starkfaithful85]

I want him to die. Not necessarily in a painful way (since the BwB holds the moral high ground), just ASAP.

It's weird I usedd to want jaime tortured to death but after he lost his hand and i Realized what a crazy manipulative bitch cersei was I kinda shifted the blame of jaime pushing bran out the window on cersei...I really do believe that when jaime is isolated from Cersei he really is a good person and has the ability to become a hero as much as anyone in the series

[IRON BANK]

Jaime will probably find a way to escape justice, which would not sit right with me, however most are believing he is on a redemption arc. So they champion all the little things he does as if they wash out the tremendous tragedies he is responsible for. I hope for one that the BWB ends his life. Or Uncat makes him a prisoner for not fulfilling his oath.

[House Morrissey]

Hmmm, I think Brienne will champion Jaime if it comes to it.

Alternately, if it happans before a weirwood tree, maybe Bran will help him out as he helps out Theon.

I'm not sure why Bran would try and save the life of the man who took his legs away.

[Castellan]

Did he actually help out Theon? He tried to communicate, but not necessarily to help.

[Alhazred]

Just brainstorming the words alone, without trying to fit it into events, I'd see the hound as Sandor - terrible face - and dark as ash which evokes fire. Sandor has 'survived a death' in the sense that he is officially dead and Elder Brother (is that his title?) sees him as re-born or being re-born on the Quiet Isle.

While Sandor may have a "terrible face" You seem to be ignoring "of a hound" part. Either the vision is of Sandor WITH the helm (in the past, or at a stretch in some speculated future), or of someone else WITH the helm, or of a third person with a more hound-like face than Sandor. But the Gravedigger (the current Sandor) does not have "face of a hound".

And the elder brother's words regarding the Hound's "death" only emphasise the permanence of the change.

The giant I would see as Gregor in his new form of Robert Strong.

Agreed. But he is not a contemporary of Sandor-as-Hound.

But why is he armoured in stone?

Possibly a reference to some special material used in is armor. While it is said to be of enameled steel, there are hints of unusual construction, and it is possible that the white enameled surface may conceal its true nature. It is also possible that the white enameled surface has a stone-like appearance, or is an actual ceramic ('stone') coating.

Armoured in the sun golden and beautiful - first thought would be Jaime.

Agreed.

I think the events cannot be contemporaneous - when did Ned argue with Robbert, his face etched in grief, - the only time I can think of is about whether to assassinate Dany.

I agree. (But why "grief" over Dany?). Though some elements are harder to disconnect temporally. Assuming chronological order to the events:

(1) Ned "pleading with the King"

(It is possible to place a firm termporal disconnect here. Nothing that follows relates back to it with any clarity.)

(2) "Sansa crying ..." and

(3) "Arya watching in silence..."

(The readers first impression is that these are simultaneous - especially as they form a single sentence. It is also possible to have Sansa cry first, and then have Arya watch later (it is not clear what Arya is watching - perhaps not necessarily Sansa)).

(4) "...Shadows all around them."

(This refers, at least, to Arya and Sansa (and possibly, but not necessarily, Ned and the King). Are Arya & Sansa still crying and watching? Or has time jumped forward again? The reader's natural assumption would be the former.)

(5) "One shadow ... face of a hound"

(Very hard to disconnect this temporally. This is one of the shadows "all around" Arya and Sansa who may or may not be still crying and watching).

(6) "Another ... golden & beautiful"

(ditto}

(7) "Over them both loomed a giant..."

(Over Arya & Sansa? Over both shadows? Is this one of the shadows all around Arya & Sansa, or merely a separate non-shadow that looms over 2 of the shadows that are around Arya & Sansa. Either way, it is hard to disconnect temporally. They all appear to be in the same scene).

Sansa sobbing herself to sleep would relate to the period after Ned died, wouldn't it?

It would. But that period has not necessarily ended. She was also sobbing herself to sleep after Rob's death, and, as far as I know, may still be doing it.

Arya is interesting because she is watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. This could relate to Arya anytime while on the run, espcially in Harranhal, but to me describes her better once she has become an assassin.

Agreed.

[Pearlthegirl]

His head belongs to Alys Karstark's new husband, according to her ill-fated father anyway. I wonder how this could come about somehow?

[Ralfius Darkstar Hightower]

I feel like jaime will die at the hands of uncat. It is so like George to make you hate jaime for pushing bran, all awhile we are hoping for stark revenge on the lannister family, then jaime changes for the better and he makes us love him as a character. Then finally the Starks in the name of dead catelyn finally get their revenge and it won't be as fulfilling as you initially thought it would be because George made us love jaime. Meanwhile George is saying, "what ? I gave u guys what you wanted right?" Brilliant.