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greensleeves

[No Spoilers] Is the third season now 2-0 on the Bechdel Test?

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The first episode of the season clearly passes. This episode seems to as well, but it seems less clear cut. We have:

- Catelyn and Talisa talking about Talisa being afraid of the horse and that only mothers can make a prayer wheel, but the conversation then goes to the men (and boys) in their lives.

- Sansa, Margaery, and Olenna have a few lines where they introduce each other and talk about lemon cakes, but most of the conversation is about men

- Osha and Meera exchange threats

Do these parts of conversations count? I want to say yes.

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Well, I'm not so sure, but then again you can't really fault the show for that since it's set in a world, where, unfortunately, it's simply mostly men that matter.

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What is the Bechdel Test and why does it matter. The only scene here of large importance is Sansa w/ the queen of thornes and Margaery.

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The bechdel test is supposed to determine if a work of fiction portrays women well or not. Basically a piece of fiction must have a scene in which two women have an entire conversation without mentioning men.

Of course it's a ridiculous measure of the presence, or lack of sexism in a work. Two women in one series could pass the bechdel test by talking about how wonderful cleaning, cooking and shopping is. Another pair of women in another series could fail because their business discussion just happened to mention Pete from work.

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It's sort of a guideline test to judge sexual bias in a movie/series. The rule is, you've got to have at least two scenes of women talking about something else than men.

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Not surprising, the show is quite sexist frankly, and not just because the setting requires it. Much more than the books. They turned Catelyn into someone who can't wait to get back at home and leave the war and big decision to the men, and now everything is her fault because she dared not to love Jon Snow the Chosen Hero.

All those scenes with naked whores, LF the master pimp nonsense, don't help at all on that account.

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Compared to many other shows on TV, GoT is not very sexist at all. Yes, it exploits female nudity, but all the relevant female characters are portrayed as 3D human beings. Even Ros.

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The second one passes two. With honors if I may say

1. Catelyn/Talisa conversation - although for us, book fans, this conversation was controversial at least, it showed Catelyn as devoted mother and someone who is honestly regretful about what she`s done.

2. QOT/ Sansa/ Margaery - two smart women and a corageous one. This was a good day for women in GOT. QOT and Margaery showed us a great deal of intelligence and political cleverness, and Sansa showed that `little bird ` can be brave, despite its fear.

3. Meera/Osha - was it about women or protectors? For me, Meera cleared that out. Some people need protection and they deserve help. This was a good feminine look at the subject.

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The second one passes two. With honors if I may say

1. Catelyn/Talisa conversation - although for us, book fans, this conversation was controversial at least, it showed Catelyn as devoted mother and someone who is honestly regretful about what she`s done.

2. QOT/ Sansa/ Margaery - two smart women and a corageous one. This was a good day for women in GOT. QOT and Margaery showed us a great deal of intelligence and political cleverness, and Sansa showed that `little bird ` can be brave, despite its fear.

3. Meera/Osha - was it about women or protectors? For me, Meera cleared that out. Some people need protection and they deserve help. This was a good feminine look at the subject.

None of those passed the bechdel test as all mentioned men extensively. Which is an excellent demonstration of why this test isn't needed because Meera and Olenna at least were both amazing scenes that did well introducing very strong female characters. The Cat/Talisa scene was bad because of the disservice it did to Cat's character and it was hardly oozing feminine power, but it was still a well acted and well written seen when looked at objectively.

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The second one passes two. With honors if I may say

1. Catelyn/Talisa conversation - although for us, book fans, this conversation was controversial at least, it showed Catelyn as devoted mother and someone who is honestly regretful about what she`s done.

I actually liked that they showed Cat had regret for those times she'd hated Jon.

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The second one passes two. With honors if I may say

1. Catelyn/Talisa conversation - although for us, book fans, this conversation was controversial at least, it showed Catelyn as devoted mother and someone who is honestly regretful about what she`s done.

2. QOT/ Sansa/ Margaery - two smart women and a corageous one. This was a good day for women in GOT. QOT and Margaery showed us a great deal of intelligence and political cleverness, and Sansa showed that `little bird ` can be brave, despite its fear..

None of those qualify. Both conversations were exclusively about men.

Compared to many other shows on TV, GoT is not very sexist at all.

True, but mostly because most TV is terribly sexist, not because GoT is much good in this respect.

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It's sort of a guideline test to judge sexual bias in a movie/series. The rule is, you've got to have at least two scenes of women talking about something else than men.

this is the saddest thing i've heard about in relation to gender in a while.

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this is the saddest thing i've heard about in relation to gender in a while.

The actual sad thing is that the vast majority of Hollywood movies don't pass this test. And it's actually only one scene necessary yet it's still usually not present.

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None of those qualify. Both conversations were exclusively about men.

As I see them those conversations were concentrated on women. Catelyn was disussing her own regret and QOT and Margaery wanted to know so Margaery would be safe. Although men is mentioned, the central topic is about women.

And, I agree that the test is so pointless...

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As I see them those conversations were concentrated on women. Catelyn was disussing her own regret and QOT and MArgaerys wanted to know so Margaery would be safe. Although men is mentioned, the central topic is about women.

And, I agree that the test is so pointless...

Yes but the criteria is that men aren't mentioned full stop.

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Yes but the criteria is that men aren't mentioned full stop.

Oh, I get that. But, quick question. If mother talks about her children and one of them happens to be male, does that mean it failed on the Bechdel test? :)

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Most films/TV also fail a male Bechdel test.

Most films/TV are also just terrible.

Passing either test doesn't improve cruddy films/TV.

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This ep fails the Bechdel test. It's really quite simple, all the female convos revolved around a male character. The premier only passes for the Sansa/Shae convo about ships.

ETA:

I'm not sure the premier passes with flying colours either, that convo was rather insipid.

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Will anyone give me an actual example anything has passed the Bechdel test?

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Oh, I get that. But, quick question. If mother talks about her children and one of them happens to be male, does that mean it failed on the Bechdel test? :)

So far as I'm aware yes. I believe that some people are more lenient and allow passing mention of men, but if the man is a major topic of conversation then it unquestionably fails the test. Because obviously a mother talking about her son is a sign of the oppressive patriarchy, rather than her love for her children :P

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