Was Joff stated as having poor skill with a blade?

[JaegrM]

I've seen it assumed many times that Joffrey was a no skilled loser when it came to wielding a sword, But I have to ask what this is based off of?

If memory serves the only pov we ever see him disgraced in is Arya's when he's quite drunk.

Other than that, the only thing that comes to mind is when Arya see's Jon watching the confrontation between Robb and Joff. And we hear what (to me at least) sounds like boasting from Robb when he says something like "you got more than you gave" to Joff after Robb's pride is wounded by Joff saying that Robb is afraid of using live steel.

I mean the Robb incident would indicate to me that Joffrey was at least confident that he could win after their other matches against each other. I mean He was always stupid but he seems much more like the type to walk away after he came away a loser and make some flimsy excuse, not have several matches against the same opponent.

Am I forgetting something?

Or is this just an assumption everyone makes because it was Joff?

[Makes No Sansa]

I think he was good enough, as befits the crown prince, but he was no Jaime.

[Light a wight tonight]

It's not really known. I'd say that Joff was a guest in Winterfell and the son of the king, two factor that might have influenced Robb to take it easy on him in practice, which could have led to him thinking he was better than he really was. Or not. But he demonstrates poor judgement when he wants to fight with bare steel. Accidents happen.

I love the line when someone (Littlefinger?) described him using his crossbow as "waging war on hares and the hares are winning".

[The_Red_Viper_of_Dorne]

Joff's bloated ego depends a lot on the presence of the Hound.

He's Joff's sworn shield, and I believe Joff was willing to take on Robb with real swords because he knew Sandor would be there to protect him if things went south.

But, just like everything else, I believe Joff's fighting skills are not as good as he wants people, including himself, to believe.

[hollowcrown]

I swear Joffrey was better at fighting than Robb?

[the Scorpion Knight]

Am I forgetting something?

Or is this just an assumption everyone makes because it was Joff?

joff's wedding should also be mentioned.

balon swann panics when he sees joff wielding wodow's wail

[JaegrM]

I swear Joffrey was better at fighting than Robb?

After my first re-read of GoT, I made up my mind that they were just about equals. Which slightly dropped my opinion of Robb's skill at arms and raised mine of Joffrey's.

[A Man Has Said]

I think Bran kicked his ass with a wooden sword when he visited WF, even though Bran was considerably younger and smaller. Joffrey likes to talk big about his martial prowess, but his favourite weapon seems to be the crossbow (in both the books and on TV) which is elsewhere portrayed as a weapon that you give to someone who otherwise doesn't know squat about weapons. (Example: Jon's defense of Castle Black against the wildlings who came south of the wall. Satin the manwhore wields a crossbow in that battle.)

Joffrey has the best weapons and armour that Lannister money can buy, but I'm sure everyone thinks in that infamous scene where he brags that he's going to give Stannis 'a red smile' that it's all empty talk.

[Blue-jae]

OP, I think the only references are what you have pointed out, however, I think that Joffrey's confidence of beating Robb in 'real steel' (Pun intended) were just empty words, it completely suits the character of Joffrey to think/ say he is better than he actually is.

[JaegrM]

joff's wedding should also be mentioned.

balon swann panics when he sees joff wielding wodow's wail

Thought he panicked when Joff swang it close enough where he had to move or be cut?

[JaegrM]

I think Bran kicked his ass with a wooden sword when he visited WF, even though Bran was considerably younger and smaller. Joffrey likes to talk big about his martial prowess, but his favourite weapon seems to be the crossbow (in both the books and on TV) which is elsewhere portrayed as a weapon that you give to someone who otherwise doesn't know squat about weapons. (Example: Jon's defense of Castle Black against the wildlings who came south of the wall. Satin the manwhore wields a crossbow in that battle.)

Joffrey has the best weapons and armour that Lannister money can buy, but I'm sure everyone thinks in that infamous scene where he brags that he's going to give Stannis 'a red smile' that it's all empty talk.

Bran only fought Rickon

[Mladen]

Bran only fought Rickon

Bran fought Tommen and knocked him.

As for Joffrey, I would assume that as heir apparent and crown Prince they educated him in wielding swords. And considering that they could have afforded best knights to so, it would be logical to assume he was somewhat good. But, not great in it.

[JaegrM]

yeah, I totally meant to write Tommen. My mistake.

[AdXRoss]

Joffrey would almost certainly have had the training available, but how much attention he actually paid would be another matter, particularly as Robert barely paid the boy any attention (there's certainly no hint that he was keeping a close watch to ensure that Joffrey was learning to be a good warrior) and particularly with Cersei's attitude to inborn Lannister superiority, I doubt he would have been made to heed his teachers (I can almost hear Cersei telling Joffrey to ignore the criticism of his master at arms, assuring him of how much like his 'uncle' Jaime he is).

Time and time again Joffrey proves himself both arrogant and cowardly, having spent his entire life behind a wall of privilege with the most fearsome dog in the realm by his shoulder - I really cannot see Joffrey as being better than anyone who's actually had training with a sword, or even spent any serious time swinging one and I certainly can't imagine him having survived fifteen seconds in a real fight with Robb Stark.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Now you're just assuming. I don't think Robb was a great swordsman, just a regular/good one. He had a good mind for tactics, was an inspiring leader and had a badass direwolf.

Even if Joffrey wasn't an ace, he probably wouldn't be ridiculously bad. He had training and even with all his arrogance, he wasn't a complete moron, he would realize he was doing badly and at least try a little. It's just like school... Even bad students at the top schools are better than most people from regular schools.

[Lord Damian]

Joff was a cowardly in reality as Sam Tarly, Joff, though was the crown prince and everyone except his father and Tyrion kissed his ass. More bluster than any potential skill.

[Fat Mac]

Joffrey probably had great training. However, his personality makes me think that he doesn't want to fight anyone up close. Hence the crossbow.

[Minsc]

Bran fought Tommen and knocked him.

As for Joffrey, I would assume that as heir apparent and crown Prince they educated him in wielding swords. And considering that they could have afforded best knights to so, it would be logical to assume he was somewhat good. But, not great in it.

I could see Cersei maybe keeping him away from active sword fighting, as if picks up Jaime's natural talent with the sword along with looking like him that might cause some individuals to start asking questions. Additionally, I could see her being worried that if Joffrey showed a natural talent for melee that might risk Robert taking a greater interest in his "son" in how that is one of the few topics that he cares greatly about thus diminishing her sole influence on him.

[Mladen]

I could see Cersei maybe keeping him away from active sword fighting, as if picks up Jaime's natural talent with the sword along with looking like him that might cause some individuals to start asking questions. Additionally, I could see her being worried that if Joffrey showed a natural talent for melee that might risk Robert taking a greater interest in his "son" in how that is one of the few topics that he cares greatly about thus diminishing her sole influence on him.

True, but he was bound to have some sort of sword, riding lessons, just like all the noble male children at the time. I doubt she would do that. Maybe on some extesion, but not totally.

[A Man Has Said]

Bran only fought Rickon

He didn't fight with Bran? My bad. :ohwell:

Maybe I just assumed that because he's SUCH a wimp. One of my favourite moments was after the Battle of Blackwater and they had some Stannis supporter there who refused to bend the knee and was dissing him. He got so excited calling for the guy's head that he cut himself on the Iron Throne. "Mother!!" Waa-aah! What a WATB.