Borderline homophobic undertones in GoT (Show spoilers only please!)

[gande51]

They destroyed his character? He was a relatively minor character in the plot and there wasn't a helluva lot to him in the first place.

:agree:

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't find the show homophobic in its intent, but as Patrick has pointed out, they almost certainly used Renly's sexuality to DEFINE him as a character. His characterization was quite poor.

I have much less of a problem with Loras though, because I think his character comes off much better and is quite similar to his book counterpart.

In this thread I've learned that i have "straight privileges"

How awesome is that?

Well, you do. It's not something to be dismissed or scoffed at. As a straight person, you do have certain privileges and shouldn't presume to tell people of the gay community how they should feel, ect, ect.

Whilst I don't find the show homophobic, it is certainly using quite a few harmful cliches regarding homosexuality.

[gande51]

Whilst I don't find the show homophobic, it is certainly using quite a few harmful cliches regarding homosexuality.

They haven't really .... I personally don't find them offensive or is that me being a woman ?? They would have been offensive to the person they are directed at of course but remember , those were times when relationships like homosexuality were seen as 'bad' ...... I also think the show hasn't really stereotyped Renly as Renly in the books was seen as been extravagant and "spent more on clothes then the ladies of the curt"

[SkyBry]

Red viper is bi and Loras gay. Season 4...I expect things to happen...

[gande51]

Red viper is bi and Loras gay. Season 4...I expect things to happen...

Exactly !! I'm actually expecting that ..

[gande51]

lol I honestly loved their 'homosexual' senes lol.....Im a big LGBT rights actavist, my cousin is gay and will do anything to marry his partner of 7 years and I would give anything to see that happen :)

Oh and good for your cousin , I hope to see a law passed for the gay community to be allowed to wed anytime soon :)

[The Ghost of Winter]

I don't know what "sex scenes" are being complained about. Bj shown offscreen, and then a brief making out scene, the horror!!!!

[The Dragon King]

I don't know what "sex scenes" are being complained about. Bj shown offscreen, and then a brief making out scene, the horror!!!!

What do those scenes do to advance the story? If they help tell the story I'm ok with it but if it's to try to titillate me I'm against it, if I wanted that I'd just watch porn.

[Woel]

It's about defining characters in the scope of the world and when someone makes a comment about Renly's sexual preferences, it's not a character point about Renly but rather a point about the character who makes the comment. When Joffrey deems homosexual sex disgusting, the show isn't suggesting he's right. It's just characterization.

The fact that characters make heterosexist and homophobic comments in universe is not the issue. The issue is how the portrayal of homosexual characters, notably Renly, is shaped by these comments. As the OP says, the writers are most likely not homophobic, but in their writing they (unitentionally?) follow in a tradition of defining a queer character to a very large extent by their queerness.

Oh, and to the posters saying "so apparently I have 'straight privileges'? lolz": a very big, wholehearted FUCK YOU. Yes, you do. In almost every part of the world, straight and cisgender (i.e. not transgender) are privileged in all layers of society. You have the privilege to be accepted, to not have have your identity questioned. To not have to worry. So don't fucking try to make your privileges into a joke, because they are real, even though you in your ignorance might not see them.

[The Ghost of Winter]

What do those scenes do to advance the story? If they help tell the story I'm ok with it but if it's to try to titillate me I'm against it, if I wanted that I'd just watch porn.

Not much, but the vast majority of the sex scenes on the show don't either. I just don't get the point of singling these two out though. Welcome to HBO.

[Juba]

I can't imagine a more shameful and stereotyped re-imagining of Renly Baratheon's character. In the novels, King Robert’s youngest brother is no coward, an adequate jouster, popular with the commons, and also happens to be gay. And although his relationship with Loras Tyrell is an open secret at court, its depiction is subtle and well realized within Martin's created world--and neither Renly nor Loras is portrayed as the effeminate stock gay character.

D and D, however, have grossly transformed Renly into a clichéd whining simp who grows faint at the sight of blood (they also introduce the characters' sexuality by showing a scene of the two of them shaving their chests, a modern sexual trope. It’s as bad as if the show had been produced in the 70’s and they’d had them comb out their manly chest hair and oil their Mark Spit's mustaches, you know? Just fucking awful, cliche writing.)

I can’t really fathom why any of this was done. I mean, HBO has had no problem depicting non-stereotypical gay roles, most notably, Omar Little, from The Wire (one of the coolest and original characters ever to grace a TV screen). I can only assume the producers made a conscience decision to dumb down the character (as they've done with a myriad of others, most egregiously, Catelyn Stark), perhaps thinking such a character would somehow appeal to gay viewers.

I don’t think they could have been more wrong. It's among the numerous reasons I stopped watching the show at all.

[TFP]

In the book Renly jousts in the hand's tourney, and physically resembles a young Robert. Seems to be a fairly rugged man who happens to be homosexual. There's no doubt that the TV series camps him up a bit. He looks more like someone who might do Floras' flower arranging for him.

I quite like Margaery's offer to get her brother involved etc. She seems very non-judgemental.

[gande51]

The fact that characters make heterosexist and homophobic comments in universe is not the issue. The issue is how the portrayal of homosexual characters, notably Renly, is shaped by these comments. As the OP says, the writers are most likely not homophobic, but in their writing they (unitentionally?) follow in a tradition of defining a queer character to a very large extent by their queerness.

Oh, and to the posters saying "so apparently I have 'straight privileges'? lolz": a very big, wholehearted FUCK YOU. Yes, you do. In almost every part of the world, straight and cisgender (i.e. not transgender) are privileged in all layers of society. You have the privilege to be accepted, to not have have your identity questioned. To not have to worry. So don't fucking try to make your privileges into a joke, because they are real, even though you in your ignorance might not see them.

It's understandable that posters such as yourself think that the writers are defining queer characters by their queerness ... But I believe that the characters in the show are as , that's what they would have defined them as , as they also define Cersei as a complete bitch that commits incest ( I'm not comparing homosexuality and incest everyone , I am gay myself ) .

[The Dragon King]

I quite like Margaery's offer to get her brother involved etc. She seems very non-judgemental.

Do you think she might have ulterior motives?

[Lord Godric]

I didnt feel like they used Renly's sexuality to define him until Renly was dead. And more specifically, until last week's episode. Alive, he was a green king who liked to play at war. In people's memories he seems to be nothing more than the gay man who wouldn't fuck Margaery.

[Lady Blue Rose]

Actually, it makes complete sense for everyone to know and for solo much importance to be given to Renly's homosexuality. You see, it his the fact that he is homosexual that made it possible for Margery to become Joff's fiancé. Once dead, Renly's character, homosexual or not, had no further importance- the only remaining thing of value for the plot moving forward was the fact that he did not consumate the marriage.

As for foot soldiers knowing, it was said in court, when Margery was presented to Joff, that the marriage was not consummated. There are all kinds of sloggers, sellswords, servants, etc present in court, who would have heard. They would probably have arrived at the same conclusion Why else would Renly not consummate his marriage to a woman as beautiful as Margery....

I think you are over thinking this and just looking for issues where there are none.

[The Mountain That Posts]

I just don't get the point of singling these two out though. Welcome to HBO.

If you read my psots more clearly, you'll see that I actually disagree with more than half of the nudity/sexytime scenes in the series. But mentioning others wasn't entirely relevant to this thread.

[ckongo]

Note: Your initial post was really long so I didn't read it all.

I admit that TV characters tend to be defined by their homosexuallity if they are gay in the show. Shows like Modern Family and Will & Grace do it quite a bit. I don't watch much TV, but the only show I've seen where a character was gay without the show being all about their gayness was Six Feet Under.

Renly... Eh. GOT does go a little over the top with it I guess. D+D love to stick sexual references wherever they can it seems.

[Rhaenys Sand]

If only I had popcorn man...

[nitroholic]

I don't think HBO is being homophobic, but they definitely turned an interesting character into something much more one-dimensional.

Renly, the dashing, ambitious, and virile warrior, who just-so-happened to be gay, turned into Renly, the stereotypical fruit who couldn't stand the sight of blood.