Top 7 military commanders in ASOIAF (including Robert's Rebellion)

[Toxspecific]

Loads of the inhabitants and governors of King's Landing itself didn't know about the wildfire, how could Stannis? And he dealt with it pretty well after it did hit him, considering he was winning the land battle. Tywin was pretty lucky to have gotten an alliance with the Tyrells in time to save Joffrey.

The Blackwater was well fought by Stannis.

[Free Northman]

It is pretty clear from the books that Robert was a better battle commander than his brother. Jon even comments that Robert would have been at Winterfell's gates before Stannis even started his march through the Wolf's Wood, but that Stannis lacked that deciseveness, and would instead wait, brood, gather his strength and ponder his next action at length.

This Jon sees as a fatal flaw on Stannis's part, as he believes Robert would have siezed Winterfell before Roose even arrived there, thus depriving the Boltons of its fortifications.

Stannis even hates being compared to Robert, because everyone rightly points out how much better Robert was at warfare.

Stannis is competent and methodical, but definitely not a brilliant commander.

[GallowsKnight]

His march through the Wolf's Wood is idiocy and should result in certain death for any real life army.

What else was he meant to do? The weather hadn't turned bad by that point. He couldn't stay in Deepwood Motte (no supplies for thousands of men) or return to the wall. The Clans had joined him to rescue Ned's daughter and kill the Boltons. Any inactivity and his army would have melted away.

They were making good time then the Storm hit. So he does the only thing they can do in the terrible condition and forge on until they reach someplace where they can hole up.

[Chaircat Meow]

My list;

1. Tywin Lannister; the best all round commander to have and probably the most cunning. Experienced, combines prudence and aggression and usually comes up with the optimum military plan to fit the circumstances. When things go wrong it is usually very hard to foresee, or owes to incompetent subordinates or crazy magical intervention. Not a genius by any means, but the kind of really solid commander 'the greats' of history would come unstuck against.

2. Robert Baratheon; not the most cerebral general but chalked up the most 'wins' and is praised for rapid advances and commanding battlefield presence.

3. Brynden Tully; the execution of Robb's campaigns probably owe more to him than Robb given how crucial surprise was to both the WW and Oxcross. It was he who devised the idea to separate Jaime's horse from the camps that won the Starks-Tullys their greatest victory.

4. Robb Stark; more than a figurehead, imo, and possessed of very good instincts, but aided immensely by Cat, Brynden and Bloodraven and Bran. Actually does make a fair few mistakes.

5. Randyll Tarly; hasn't actually done that much but deserves this spot owing to reputation.

6. Jaime Lannister; actually a good, inspiring commander who even came close to winning the WW through his charge straight at Robb. Overly rash of course.

7. Stannis Baratheon; I agree with Free Northman. Stannis is a decent general, some of the time, but his plans in DwD never took long to descend to the crazy and he is never displayed showing any kind of brilliance, saving, perhaps, at Fair Isle (which we don't see).

[Free Northman]

What else was he meant to do? The weather hadn't turned bad by that point. He couldn't stay in Deepwood Motte (no supplies for thousands of men) or return to the wall. The Clans had joined him to rescue Ned's daughter and kill the Boltons. Any inactivity and his army would have melted away.

They were making good time then the Storm hit. So he does the only thing they can do in the terrible condition and forge on until they reach someplace where they can hole up.

Read Jon's thoughts on the situation, just after Stannis took Deepwood Motte, and see his juxtaposition of how Robert would have acted compared to how he expected Stannis to act. His judgement proved spot on, and was clearly Martin setting the scene for Stannis's soon-to-arrive tribulations in the Wolf's Wood.

[E-Ro]

Lets not forget during the BW many of his men turned on him rather then fight. Thank renlys ghost. If that hadn't of happened he would still have had say 17k men that's a lot more power then he has now and makes him a far bigger threat to the tyrell lannister alliance.

[Toxspecific]

Why are we still ignoring the fact that Stannis and the people defending King's Landing themselves had no clue that the wildfire stash even existed? How can he prepare for something like that? Or a last minute Tyrell alliance popping up?

[Chaircat Meow]

Lets not forget during the BW many of his men turned on him rather then fight. Thank renlys ghost. If that hadn't of happened he would still have had say 17k men that's a lot more power then he has now and makes him a far bigger threat to the tyrell lannister alliance.

Even without the ghost I don't think he's winning that fight. He was taken by surprise by a force with vastly superior numbers. Doesn't look good.

Mind you, the lannister and Tyrells (I think) were actually separated by the river so if Stannis did have more intelligence on their whereabouts, and took measures to order his men for a defense he could have had a chance.

[DurararaFTW]

It is pretty clear from the books that Robert was a better battle commander than his brother. Jon even comments that Robert would have been at Winterfell's gates before Stannis even started his march through the Wolf's Wood, but that Stannis lacked that deciseveness, and would instead wait, brood, gather his strength and ponder his next action at length.

This Jon sees as a fatal flaw on Stannis's part, as he believes Robert would have siezed Winterfell before Roose even arrived there, thus depriving the Boltons of its fortifications.

Stannis even hates being compared to Robert, because everyone rightly points out how much better Robert was at warfare.

Stannis is competent and methodical, but definitely not a brilliant commander.

i agree that Robert is the better battle commander, but that would not have been the optimal play. Roose was holding the castle against them AND he had the bigger army. Charging in straight on in the middle of a blizzard would have gotten them killed.

Really, Winterfell is a battle that played too Stannis' strength, he can wait an enemy out until there is no food and no one loyal too him no matter the condition like no one else. As Stannis says, all Roose had to do was wait him out but nobody inside Winterfell was patient enough to do that and Roose failed to maintain order. Now the advantage has shifted back too Stannis' favor. Roose is sending over half his men out into the blizzard, the Freys, Ramsay and the Manderlys are going out seperately, and they don't even know where the hell Stannis is.

[Fetch me a block]

Robert was better than Stannis, but they had very different styles. Many of Robert's battles were high-risk, decisive affairs were his strike hard and fast philosophy won the day. Stannis is slow and methodical, not giving battle in the short term unless he knows he can win. Robert would not win at Winterfell, simply because he doesn't have the patience.

[Fetch me a block]

Why are we still ignoring the fact that Stannis and the people defending King's Landing themselves had no clue that the wildfire stash even existed? How can he prepare for something like that? Or a last minute Tyrell alliance popping up?

But he would have won even with his fleet being crushed as it was. He would have won if not for the Tyrells, but Stannis did send out scouts. Trouble they all got killed.

[GallowsKnight]

Read Jon's thoughts on the situation, just after Stannis took Deepwood Motte, and see his juxtaposition of how Robert would have acted compared to how he expected Stannis to act. His judgement proved spot on, and was clearly Martin setting the scene for Stannis's soon-to-arrive tribulations in the Wolf's Wood.

I don't see how it's spot on. Stannis isn't late to Winterfell because he dawdled. He's late because the mother of all storms blindsided his army.

And of course Robert Baratheon could do better:

We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right.” Stannis rose to his feet. “I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt

[Chaircat Meow]

i agree that Robert is the better battle commander, but that would not have been the optimal play. Roose was holding the castle against them AND he had the bigger army. Charging in straight on in the middle of a blizzard would have gotten them killed.

Really, Winterfell is a battle that played too Stannis' strength, he can wait an enemy out until there is no food and no one loyal too him no matter the condition like no one else. As Stannis says, all Roose had to do was wait him out but nobody inside Winterfell was patient enough to do that and Roose failed to maintain order. Now the advantage has shifted back too Stannis' favor. Roose is sending over half his men out into the blizzard, the Freys, Ramsay and the Manderlys are going out seperately, and they don't even know where the hell Stannis is.

No, this assumes Stannis was counting on internal divisions in the Bolton army forcing Roose to make a mistake. Remember though, Stannis thinks Manderly chopped Davos and is thus firmly behind the Iron Throne. Bolton's stupid piecemeal attack is going to save him but it was not something he was, or could have, been counting on.

I think Jon had this one right; seize the castle quickly or don't bother.

[Fetch me a block]

My list;

1. Tywin Lannister; the best all round commander to have and probably the most cunning. Experienced, combines prudence and aggression and usually comes up with the optimum military plan to fit the circumstances. When things go wrong it is usually very hard to foresee, or owes to incompetent subordinates or crazy magical intervention. Not a genius by any means, but the kind of really solid commander 'the greats' of history would come unstuck against.

2. Robert Baratheon; not the most cerebral general but chalked up the most 'wins' and is praised for rapid advances and commanding battlefield presence.

3. Brynden Tully; the execution of Robb's campaigns probably owe more to him than Robb given how crucial surprise was to both the WW and Oxcross. It was he who devised the idea to separate Jaime's horse from the camps that won the Starks-Tullys their greatest victory.

4. Robb Stark; more than a figurehead, imo, and possessed of very good instincts, but aided immensely by Cat, Brynden and Bloodraven and Bran. Actually does make a fair few mistakes.

5. Randyll Tarly; hasn't actually done that much but deserves this spot owing to reputation.

6. Jaime Lannister; actually a good, inspiring commander who even came close to winning the WW through his charge straight at Robb. Overly rash of course.

7. Stannis Baratheon; I agree with Free Northman. Stannis is a decent general, some of the time, but his plans in DwD never took long to descend to the crazy and he is never displayed showing any kind of brilliance, saving, perhaps, at Fair Isle (which we don't see).

Spot on with your description of Robert, thoughtfulness doesn't always win the day. In fact I find parallels between Robb and Robert, don't you?

Trouble is with Tywin he never (in military terms) thinks outside the box. When Robb has the upper hand, Tywin gambles on him losing steam rather than trying to take him out. Tywin hasn't actually won that many battles, and I think the Stark-Tullys had much better overall management of their campaign, but then again Robb did have better advisers than Tywin's.

[Chaircat Meow]

But he would have won even with his fleet being crushed as it was. He would have won if not for the Tyrells, but Stannis did send out scouts. Trouble they all got killed.

I agree Tyrion's wildfire gambit actually failed: Stannis would have got across.

However, he had been awaiting his fleet for days before the battle so why did he not replace the lost scouts?

Unless Shagga knew magically that he had to go all out on the very day the Lannister-Tyrell host unexpectedly arrived.

[Fetch me a block]

No, this assumes Stannis was counting on internal divisions in the Bolton army forcing Roose to make a mistake. Remember though, Stannis thinks Manderly chopped Davos and is thus firmly behind the Iron Throne. Bolton's stupid piecemeal attack is going to save him but it was not something he was, or could have, been counting on.

I think Jon had this one right; seize the castle quickly or don't bother.

I don't see how Stannis could have done this. Think about it, Bolton got there first and that was almost inevitable. Stannis could have tried to move faster but no one could have seen that storm coming.

[Fetch me a block]

I agree Tyrion's wildfire gambit actually failed: Stannis would have got across.

However, he had been awaiting his fleet for days before the battle so why did he not replace the lost scouts?

Unless Shagga knew magically that he had to go all out on the very day the Lannister-Tyrell host unexpectedly arrived.

Yes, Stannis didn't replace his lost scouts, and that was silly.

[Chaircat Meow]

Spot on with your description of Robert, thoughtfulness doesn't always win the day. In fact I find parallels between Robb and Robert, don't you?

Mmh, I think Robb might have had more brains but yes they are similar in many ways.

Trouble is with Tywin he never (in military terms) thinks outside the box. When Robb has the upper hand, Tywin gambles on him losing steam rather than trying to take him out. Tywin hasn't actually won that many battles, and I think the Stark-Tullys had much better overall management of their campaign, but then again Robb did have better advisers than Tywin's.

Ah, this is where people go wrong. He wasn't banking on him losing steam after the Whispering Wood, he was burning the riverlands to try and coax him to give a battle near Harrenhal; where 1. Tywin would be close to his base and could choose his ground, and 2. where he could stop Bolton's men joining Robb and 3. he had some chance of altering plans and defending KL if the situation called for it. Of course, if Robb did cower at RR and let his banners disperse, that would be fine too as far as Tywin was concerned.

He didn't think Robb could get west because the pass at the Golden Tooth was well guarded. Robb proved him wrong there but the reaction from people who hear about that is pretty much a 'WTF how did he do that.' It's not really a sign you lack military acumen to believe a crucial strategic choke point might just do its job.

[Corvo Attano]

The Tyrells are the only army to have suffered no significant losses so far over the time of the books, and Lord Randyll is the real brain behind them, so he should be higher.

Also, what about Beric Dondarrion/Thoros? Surely the BWB are brilliant strategists?

[DurararaFTW]

No, this assumes Stannis was counting on internal divisions in the Bolton army forcing Roose to make a mistake. Remember though, Stannis thinks Manderly chopped Davos and is thus firmly behind the Iron Throne. Bolton's stupid piecemeal attack is going to save him but it was not something he was, or could have, been counting on.

I think Jon had this one right; seize the castle quickly or don't bother.

He was waiting on a mistake, I don't feel Roose is so perfect that he needs to forced to make one.