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Xcorpyo001

[Book Spoilers] Was that Domeric?

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We know from the book that Ramsay became the heir of Roose Bolton only after Domeric Bolton, the rightful heir to the Dreadfort suffered an unfortunate 'accident', most likely by Ramsay's hands, as Roose himself tells Theon at a later time.

Could the producers insert that in the tv show to better portray Ramsay's true character?

Until this episode I believed everything in the Dreadfort dungeon with Theon's torturers was just a ploy and everybody knew that the guy torturing Theon was not Ramsay, and they played along in his escape so that Ramsay could have one of his little hunts.

Now I believe his position is a normal one for a bastard raised at his lord father's court. Jon was a exception for many reasons, and even him had some problems with Cat.

I believe Ramsay released Theon not for his own entertainment, but to set a trap for his brother. Once he'll trick Theon in revealing all that happened at Winterfell, he'll just take Theon back to the Dreadfort, accuse Theon for the death of Domeric and his guards, and force Roose to declare him his next heir, especially after getting the information from Theon, proving his worth as his father's right hand.

This will really change the scene with Roose and Reek/Theon having their first face to face.

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Nah, I doubt they'd make that guy be him. Domeric was described as being a normal, nice dude who liked horses and got along well with the Starks, definitely not a sadistic rapist.

I could eat my words later mind you, but I just don't see things unfolding that way. I figure he was just Creepy Bolton Extra #01.

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I hope not. Mainly because I hate it when TV shows are like: "That featured extra you killed two episodes was actually quite an important person!" It's an interesting theory though and entirely possible.

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Could be, but why did Roose Bolton tell Robb in s2 that his bastard was marching on Winterfell if Ramsey's just the janitor of the dungeons and Domeric's in charge?

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Right, forgot about that - Domeric dying is the only reason Ramsay's allowed as much power as he is. Wouldn't make any sense for Roose to be all "My bastard this, my bastard that" if his actual son was still alive and kickin'.

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Ramsay couldn't just pick a random Dreadford goon to play along at impersonating him while he's just a simple guy in the background.

So killing off one his trusted men just for conning Theon is a little far-fetched. What was the plan then? How was he going to free Theon without bloodshed? I don't see Ramsay convincing 5 of his men, especially someone from his close inner-circle to just die so he could fool Theon into trusting him.

Yes, I could see Ramsay kill some of his own soldiers just for the lols of it, but not one of his trusted supporters. And that guy seemed pretty surprised to find himself with an arrow in his shoulder.

Not to mention the fact that he missed a vital organ on that guy while he directly killed all the rest. He probably wanted to make it a personal kill, up-close and personal. He wanted to show his brother who was the one that killed him and why.

And Domeric's last words were 'Bastard'. All his men know better than do that, even with an arrow in him.

It will really add to Ramsay's deviousness if it proves to be true.

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Right, forgot about that - Domeric dying is the only reason Ramsay's allowed as much power as he is. Wouldn't make any sense for Roose to be all "My bastard this, my bastard that" if his actual son was still alive and kickin'.

The only power Ramsay has so far in the TV show is that he is being allowed to sweep the floors in the dungeons. Yes, it may be a ploy, or simply a reality he plans to rectify the first chance he gets, which is Theon's timely escape.

This will be a nice setup for the will Robb will make to legitimize Jon. Roose will also be forced to legitimize his bastard, because he's in a war and if he dies he'll have no legal heirs.

The death of his son will make him realize that he needs another heir, so his 'sacrifice' in taking one for the Stark team and marry a very fertile Frey will be a win/win for him, especially if he plans to get rid of his bastard at a later time, when he'll once again have a rightful heir that can survive Ramsay. Just as a backup, at least.

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Right, forgot about that - Domeric dying is the only reason Ramsay's allowed as much power as he is. Wouldn't make any sense for Roose to be all "My bastard this, my bastard that" if his actual son was still alive and kickin'.

It would be cool if it were true, but this is the only thing holding me back for thinking that. Still a bit confused to who they were they must have been random Dreadfort men

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The only power Ramsay has so far in the TV show is that he is being allowed to sweep the floors in the dungeons.

Directly. Indirectly, Roose refers to him often enough.

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While watching the scene I also thought: "Domeric?", but in the next second I remembered Roose saying his bastard already is in a position to command an army. The guy being killed did not resemble book-Domeric chracter at all, too. So I concluded it was not him.

Ramsay using a bow (Theon's preffered weapon) to kill them is still curious though and looks like blame-shifting, but if it will be said eventually that the man was indeed Domeric, I would consider is as a poor writing :dunno:

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If Domeric were alive, Roose wouldn't have sent his bastard to take Winterfell from Theon.

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While watching the scene I also thought: "Domeric?", but in the next second I remembered Roose saying his bastard already is in a position to command an army. The guy being killed did not resemble book-Domeric chracter at all, too. So I concluded it was not him.

Ramsay using a bow (Theon's preffered weapon) to kill them is still curious though and looks like blame-shifting, but if it will be said eventually that the man was indeed Domeric, I would consider is as a poor writing :dunno:

In what episode is Roose talking about his bastard commanding an army? I think I missed that line, which will explain me posting this crackpot theory here. I mix lines from the show and the book from time to time. In the book Roose is talking a lot about his Bastard.

Anyway, I thought the show presenting Ramsay's evolution from a bastard to The Bastard will be cool and will explain the amount of show time Theon has in a season that should be Theon-free according to the books.

As long as they don't cut off the "Last of the Giants" song from the show so we can see more Ramsay/Theon/Pimp-Pod, all is cool in the world.

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In what episode is Roose talking about his bastard commanding an army? I think I missed that line, which will explain me posting this crackpot theory here. I mix lines from the show and the book from time to time. In the book Roose is talking a lot about his Bastard.

Anyway, I thought the show presenting Ramsay's evolution from a bastard to The Bastard will be cool and will explain the amount of show time Theon has in a season that should be Theon-free according to the books.

As long as they don't cut off the "Last of the Giants" song from the show so we can see more Ramsay/Theon/Pimp-Pod, all is cool in the world.

"Let me send word to my bastard at the Dreadfort. He can raise a few hundred men and retake Winterfell before the new moon. My boy would be honored to bring you Prince Theon's head."

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Yup, thank you for the link. Now i'm convinced I was wrong in hoping it was Domeric. The chances of Roose trusting his bastard with such a task as reclaiming Winterhell(I just love Hot Pie in that scene) while his heir is still alive are slim to none.

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In what episode is Roose talking about his bastard commanding an army? I think I missed that line, which will explain me posting this crackpot theory here. I mix lines from the show and the book from time to time. In the book Roose is talking a lot about his Bastard.

Here, for example.

Anyway, I thought the show presenting Ramsay's evolution from a bastard to The Bastard will be cool and will explain the amount of show time Theon has in a season that should be Theon-free according to the books..

It messes up continuity in a lot of ways. And that would be another such dissapointment with the writers.

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If Domeric was alive, Roose wouldn't talk about his bastard. Furthermore, if Domeric was alive, he would have gone to war with his father, like all the other Northern lords did. He would have been shamed to stay behind. There is no Domeric in the show

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This theory isn't totally shot. I do think there is something in the exchange Theon and Ramsey have as Theon mounts the horse.

Theon: "I'll make you a lord on the island islands for this."

Ramsey: "We're not on the Iron Islands."

This could suggest Ramsey does want lordship, and this little response is a quip meaning "Oh, I want you to help me be a lord, but not in the iron islands, I'm gonna blame you for my brothers death."

I don't think we can say for sure that Roose wouldnt talk about his bastard is Domeric was alive. It could have been that Ramsey was closer to winterfell to begin with, or that Roose actually likes his bastard more. I might be shipping my own confusion into what I remember but I thought I remembered talk of how Ramsey was more like Roose anyhow and/or how Roose seemed to take a liking to his bastard. I could be totally botching that though.

We can at least gather that since the last guy killed does in fact call Ramsey "bastard" that he does know who he is. I honestly think Ramsey is playing a game and has basically sacrificed these five men to improve the results. It goes hand and hand with the "Winter is coming" line. He is trying to trick Theon (and that means the viewer too) into thinking he is a good guy.

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