Ice and Fire animal project: Wolves

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I like this view. I always thought that people give children wolf names in order to symbolize their fierceness and wild nature. To make others their kid is to be frightened in a way, like the symbol of strength and endurance.

I saw a documentary once when she-wolves ripped alone three male wolves that came to see her babies. These wolves were from different pack, so she had to defend her babies. I also think there is a great strength in females, equal as males.

Yeah it just seems (from what I've read) that Lyanna is a very strong girl, and an incredible Stark in general, very wolfish :cool4:

[Mladen]

However I think the vast prevelance of the names meaning wolf, must mean that humanity does see something of virtue in the wolf, that it aspires to, or is proud to carry, in spite of all our antagonistic stories. Is it the wolf's pack mentality and loyalty that speaks to us, on a more primal level? Or is it perhaps his tenacity, manifesting himself as a formidable enemy to all who challenge him?

Nice catch, bbstark, and also I think that men genuinly both fear and admire wolves. They are not just vicious enemy, they are more than that. They are symbol of tenacity, endurance, family union. And although in many cultures wolf is represented as vile, many of them celebrate wolf as symbolf of power and strength.

It's hard to explain exactly, only that his connection to Ghost IMO seems slightly different than the other children's connections to their wolves, even Bran who is the most accomplished Warg still, again, IMO, seems to lack the closeness that Jon and Ghost have. And I just feel that all stems from Jon being Lyanna's kid and getting her 'Stark' powers instead of Ned's. I mean Ned raised him and a lot of his personality is that of Ned's other children. But he has a more special connection with the North and his wolf than the rest do, and for me this all comes from Lyanna.

Another very interesting point, Suzanna. I like the fact you think Jon`s wolf nature came from his mother, which I also believe, but Ghost is unique wolf, and you won`t find those in nature. Ghost is albino, with red eyes, and that`s something indicating us that unlike other Stark children, there`s more than just a wolf in Jon.

And, Suzanna, I believe that she-wolf theme in Stark girls will evolve soon enough. I see them becoming much stronger in the future.

I saw a documentary once when she-wolves ripped alone three male wolves that came to see her babies. These wolves were from different pack, so she had to defend her babies. I also think there is a great strength in females, equal as males.

FMOW, I saw that one too, it was quite interesting to see female fighting for her pups.

[King of Winters]

@ Mladen, will you be doing more of these animal projects about other houses?

[Mladen]

@ Mladen, will you be doing more of these animal projects about other houses?

Yes, I plan to do essays about lions, eagles, stags, krakens, dragons, dogs, cats, fishes etc...

Lions are planned to come next, if you are interested.

[King of Winters]

Yes, I plan to do essays about lions, eagles, stags, krakens, dragons, dogs, cats, fishes etc...

Lions are planned to come next, if you are interested.

I was very interested in this topic and I'm looking forward to the next one.

[Mladen]

I was very interested in this topic and I'm looking forward to the next one.

In about month, I`ll open Lion project, but for now we`ll focus on wolves. There`s another series of essays coming, I am in search for contributors.

[King of Winters]

In about month, I`ll open Lion project, but for now we`ll focus on wolves. There`s another series of essays coming, I am in search for contributors.

What kind of essays?

[Mladen]

What kind of essays?

I plan to deal with wolf theme individually within each Stark

Also, series of wolf mythology from variety of world`s mythologies

And, lastly, parallels from other novels regarding wolf theme.

[King of Winters]

I plan to deal with wolf theme individually within each Stark

Also, series of wolf mythology from variety of world`s mythologies

And, lastly, parallels from other novels regarding wolf theme.

They sound good.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

They sound good.

:agree:

[bbstark]

Yes, I plan to do essays about lions, eagles, stags, krakens, dragons, dogs, cats, fishes etc...

Lions are planned to come next, if you are interested.

regarding Lions, I'm sure there's a mountain of literature and documentaries, but one of my favorites is a BBC documentary called "Big Cat Diaries". It follows a pride of lions, some cheetahs and leopards as well. It's pretty true to nature, but also freaking adorable (the cubs, omg just want to :grouphug: hehhee)

[King of Winters]

regarding Lions, I'm sure there's a mountain of literature and documentaries, but one of my favorites is a BBC documentary called "Big Cat Diaries". It follows a pride of lions, some cheetahs and leopards as well. It's pretty true to nature, but also freaking adorable (the cubs, omg just want to :grouphug: hehhee)

I enjoyed that series. That could help you (Mladen) in your lion animal project.

[Mladen]

regarding Lions, I'm sure there's a mountain of literature and documentaries, but one of my favorites is a BBC documentary called "Big Cat Diaries". It follows a pride of lions, some cheetahs and leopards as well. It's pretty true to nature, but also freaking adorable (the cubs, omg just want to :grouphug: hehhee)

I enjoyed that series. That could help you (Mladen) in your lion animal project.

If you have any idea for the good references, please be free to PM me. You are most welcome to do that. And I sincerely thank for any help,

[Ice Stark]

i s

Excellent work,can't wait for the next ones!!!

:rolleyes:

i see what you did there! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :laugh:

[Suzanna Stormborn]

regarding Lions, I'm sure there's a mountain of literature and documentaries, but one of my favorites is a BBC documentary called "Big Cat Diaries". It follows a pride of lions, some cheetahs and leopards as well. It's pretty true to nature, but also freaking adorable (the cubs, omg just want to :grouphug: hehhee)

omg love that show!!! I have seen every episode. MLaden it's on Netflix, and would be a great source of info about lions, their mating, lifestyle, pack hierarchy, everything :)

[WinterKing]

BBC and Discovery have lots of good shows on animals.I would reccomend any of them.

[Manderlay]

For wolf`s path always leads home.

Direwolves died out of their inability to compromise, wolves are almost extinct because they don`t have sense for cruelty as men, and men prevailed due to his intelligent nature. The war between the South and the North is not finished. Of four remaining Stark children, only one will have to make the first move and attack, and then others will follow. They will tackle the beasts and the men that wounded them and rip them apart. Just like all the wolves in nature do.

Excellent post, enjoyed reading it :)

Liked that first line in the quote, I always thought that Eddard's advice to Arya was foreshadowing, I am very bad at foreshadowing but I didn't miss this one when I read it "When winter comes the lone wolf dies but the pack survives" and it fits Arya more so because she in fact is a lone wolf more so than her siblings who are scattered.

Yes, the starks are not capable of cruelty like we have seen from other houses, interestingly which stark sibling will make the first move, my bet would be Sansa, I think we are going to see her become a true alpha and Arya will be the first to unite with her sister, despite the contrast between the two sisters and their differences, we have seen that they still think of each other. The she wolves will strike first, whereas the alpha male Jon will strike in the north.

[Mladen]

Excellent post, enjoyed reading it :)

Liked that first line in the quote, I always thought that Eddard's advice to Arya was foreshadowing, I am very bad at foreshadowing but I didn't miss this one when I read it "When winter comes the lone wolf dies but the pack survives" and it fits Arya more so because she in fact is a lone wolf more so than her siblings who are scattered.

Yes, the starks are not capable of cruelty like we have seen from other houses, interestingly which stark sibling will make the first move, my bet would be Sansa, I think we are going to see her become a true alpha and Arya will be the first to unite with her sister, despite the contrast between the two sisters and their differences, we have seen that they still think of each other. The she wolves will strike first, whereas the alpha male Jon will strike in the north.

Thanks, manderlay. I am so glad you are so dedicated to read all of it. That pleases me more than any praise. Thank you, indeed. I know it`s long and difficult to stay focus, but I did my best

As for shadowing and the line `lone wolf dies, while pack survives`, I think that Starks died metaphorically. Sansa is Alayne, Arya is near becoming FM, Jon is well almost dead, Bran is becoming tree, and Rickon became wild. But, that metaphoric death is just intro for rebirth of Stark children and their return home. Because, Arya hid Needle, Sansa cleared out who her parents are, Bran has Summer, Rickon is searched. They will be metaphorically reborn, and some of them return home where they`ll be strong as united.

I like your observation on differences between men and wolves. I think that we use the term `beastly` so wrong, that we have forgotten that men is able to do far worse things than animal. I also believe that Sansa will emerge as alpha female, strong but protective woman, ready to attack and destroy her enemies, and protect her pack. Also, I am still thinking about incestual behavior within wolves and whether Martin will use this little data to go to another way. I don`t say I like it, but it`s been bugging me for some time.

[Manderlay]

Also, I am still thinking about incestual behavior within wolves and whether Martin will use this little data to go to another way. I don`t say I like it, but it`s been bugging me for some time.

Are you referring to Jon and Sansa? I have read some posts about that, technically Jon is her cousin and in westeros marriage of cousins is not considered incest, as Tywin married his cousin sister and Lady Lysa told Sansa she could marry sweet robin, although I admit lysa was nuts and in both cases they are cousins, However I do agree with you that this scenario has bugged me as well and more so in case of Jon as he was raised by Eddard and he is his son in his view even if he learns of his true parents and has always been a brother to sansa, I hope too that doesn't happen, but we have reason to hope as Jon is not the sort of person who will marry sansa as he has always considered sansa a sister and he would be uncomfortable with the idea same as sansa.

[Mladen]

Are you referring to Jon and Sansa? I have read some posts about that, technically Jon is her cousin and in westeros marriage of cousins is not considered incest, as Tywin married his cousin sister and Lady Lysa told Sansa she could marry sweet robin, although I admit lysa was nuts and in both cases they are cousins, However I do agree with you that this scenario has bugged me as well and more so in case of Jon as he was raised by Eddard and he is his son in his view even if he learns of his true parents and has always been a brother to sansa, I hope too that doesn't happen, but we have reason to hope as Jon is not the sort of person who will marry sansa as he has always considered sansa a sister and he would be uncomfortable with the idea same as sansa.

Yes, I am referring to Jon/Sansa possible marriage. Interestingly, the idea is somewhat repulsive, but I see GRRM can go with it. Why? Well, first, we don`t have any interaction between the two of them. In their POVs at the beginning, Jon talked to Bran, Arya, Ned, Robb, with everyone but Sansa. He is so close to Arya, and yet we haven`t seen him saying Sansa goodbye or goodluck at least. Then, we have their personnalities. People unite Jon and Dany, but Jon and Sansa have so much in common on deep, very intimate level. Third, they are cousins. This is problematic, given the fact that Old Gods are not fond of incest, and not to mention they were raised as brother and sister, they see each other as brother and sister. ot mentioning that Sansa is in love with Sandor, and Jon has some feelings for Val. Even more interestingly, how would Northern lords look upon it? Will they support the idea, given that Sansa is in succession line for Riverrun and Riverlands, through her blood relation with SR, can bring Vale to the fold? Or they would be against it?

Funny, as much as I hate the idea, I can`t deny there is a room for their marriage to actually happen.