If the Others make it past the Wall, won't it drastically change the entire feel of the series?

[Azor Ahoy!]

WoW should end with the collapse of the Wall and the Others flooding the North, while the war for the IT is more or less over.

ADOS should start with Stannis heading back to the Wall after beating the Boltons at Winterfell only to discover that it is gone and his army is overrun by the hordes of Others, Stannis is killed :bawl: but he manages to get ravens off to warn of the invasion.

That's why I believe the series CAN and WILL be finished in two more books.

[Corvo Attano]

And the Others might be capable of negotiations.

Excuse me while I go and beat my head against a wall.

I agree with the rest of what you're saying though

[paddington]

I got this crackpot theory that the others are already behind the wall. Maybe the others started out like the BwB, they discovered how to resurrect people, an just kept doing it and doing it, each time a little less of the person returned, until the only thing left was hate.

So Beric, UnCat are just like the others just at an early stage of the cycle.

[Corvo Attano]

The way I understand it, the only possible way The Others make it south of the wall is if the wall falls. There's magic in the wall - Coldhands couldn't pass beneath it, I don't think the Others will either. The Horn of Joramun is probably with Sam in oldtown, and he's probably the least likley person in the world to blow it. Westeros is safe.

I'd prefer if The Others remain shrouded in mystery, they're more interesting that way.

The theories about the Others are getting ridiculous though. First we had claims that they're not what they seem, then claims that they're misunderstood, then claims that they might me capable of negotiations. Before too long, we'll have people calling for an Other POV...

[Barty]

Will they come down as an unstoppable army?? I don't think so. Even when we are beyond the wall we don't see the others acting like an army - they prefer to hunt, stalk and kill like predators. If the humans are grouped together like Mance's army then they tend to stay away but will go in to kill the scouts or the weaklings left behind. The Fist is a dilemma but I think the others actually felt threatened by such a large presence of the NW there - it was the NW which defeated them last time.

If the NW is destroyed along with the wall then they will continue their hunting ways only this time they'll do it south of the wall. People won't be able to leave their strongholds, travel will become tougher, small villages might be wiped out but I don't see all the others coming together to form a large army unless the humans provoke them into it by marching a large army led by AAR against them.

[The Pain Yak]

The way I understand it, the only possible way The Others make it south of the wall is if the wall falls. There's magic in the wall - Coldhands couldn't pass beneath it, I don't think the Others will either. The Horn of Joramun is probably with Sam in oldtown, and he's probably the least likley person in the world to blow it. Westeros is safe.

If Westeros is safe, then the beyond-the-wall storyline and all the build-up to the return of the Long Night was a rather massive waste of time and words. The threat of the Others ends up looking pretty weak as the creatures who are supposed to herald the end of all things end up stuck in an area where they can't get at most people. That would certainly defy expectations if true...but not in a good way, I think.

I don't know how it will happen, or when, but I would bet almost anything the Others make it past the Wall. I would go further and suggest that somehow the Wall will be brought down by someone or something.

[BreastplateWithNipples]

If their attacks work like they did at the Fist then it certainly counts as "coming down as an unstoppable army" to me ;)

[Barty]

If their attacks work like they did at the Fist then it certainly counts as "coming down as an unstoppable army" to me ;)

I don't they do work like that - The Fist was an exception to the rule, probably because it was an armed company made entirely out of the NW - the other's sworn enemy. If the others work in the unstoppable army kind of way then why isn't Mance attacked(in a grand scale attack)? or after Mance's army breaks - why isn't Tormund attacked or the weeper or mother mole

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Will they come down as an unstoppable army?? I don't think so. Even when we are beyond the wall we don't see the others acting like an army - they prefer to hunt, stalk and kill like predators. If the humans are grouped together like Mance's army then they tend to stay away but will go in to kill the scouts or the weaklings left behind. The Fist is a dilemma but I think the others actually felt threatened by such a large presence of the NW there - it was the NW which defeated them last time.

If the NW is destroyed along with the wall then they will continue their hunting ways only this time they'll do it south of the wall. People won't be able to leave their strongholds, travel will become tougher, small villages might be wiped out but I don't see all the others coming together to form a large army unless the humans provoke them into it by marching a large army led by AAR against them.

:agree:

The Others are not replaying World War I, with trenches and fixed lines and everything, they are waging assymetrical warfare. And they will do it all over Westeros.

If their attacks work like they did at the Fist then it certainly counts as "coming down as an unstoppable army" to me ;)

Still only ~250 casualties on the human side, but far more wights destroyed, even an Other. Depending on the number of Others (not wights), it may have been even a pyrrhic victory.

[nara]

The Others won't even make it past the wall.

Just you watch.

Been wondering if greyscale will be the death of them

[The Pain Yak]

I don't they do work like that - The Fist was an exception to the rule, probably because it was an armed company made entirely out of the NW - the other's sworn enemy. If the others work in the unstoppable army kind of way then why isn't Mance attacked(in a grand scale attack)? or after Mance's army breaks - why isn't Tormund attacked or the weeper or mother mole

The impression I'm getting is that they're waiting until winter truly arrives before showing their full strength. Which means, with winter finally here as of the end of DwD, we should be seeing a lot more of them in WoW. Could be wrong, though.

[Lord Damian]

"there must always be a Stark in Winterfell", Winterfell and the Wall are connected, I just know it but cannot prove it. I think that the Starks somehow, throught the magic of the Brandon Stark, The Builder used a "warding" spell when the wall was built. Winterfell has not alive Starks, unless Rickon can get in there and that makes the Wall vulnerable. This is my opinion and we will have to wait and see if it is true. The others will be like a cancer, taking over other cells as it moves along, multiplying its host. Yes, the others will advance and keep going until it is stopped.

[King Tyrion VIII]

Excuse me while I go and beat my head against a wall.

I agree with the rest of what you're saying though

The Others may be fully capable of negotiations, it's possible they are ancient humans or some other advanced humanoid. I just don't think they will care enough to negotiate.

Edit to clarify: The Others and the White Walkers don't have to be the same. Maybe the Others are advanced humanoids, with the WW being the Sidhe made of ice. Seperate, but possibly working together.

[Falrinn]

This question kind of reminds of World War Z (the book, not the movie) where despite a world-wide zombie apocalypse there was a lot of fighting among the living. Sometimes it was a matter of one country looking out for themselves at the detriment of others, and then events spiraling out of control. Other times it was because the people currently in authority couldn't bring themselves to admit the fact there tactics were ineffective and had to be violently replaced. Other times it was just radicals groups who took advantage of the chaos in a bid to seize power for themselves.

These basic concepts could be applied to an invasion of Westeros by the Others. Even if everyone agrees that forming a coalition is in the best interests of Westeros, who would lead it? Dany is a Targeryen, and as such would have the support of Dorne and maybe part of the Reach. I don't think the people who fought so hard to kick the Targeryen's out of power would be eager to march under the dragon's banner once again even if it was backed by actual dragons. While the Night's Watch is technically neutral, I don't think anyone with a bone to pick with the Starks would want to serve Jon Snow. The potential candidates get even less popular from there.

So instead of an actual coalition we just have a loose collection of factions that agree that the Others are a problem. But how much of a problem? What if a few lords figure that the defeat of the Others is inevitable in the long term, so there is no harm in ensuring someone else takes the brunt of the casualties. Or perhaps we could have lords who command large amounts of manpower but are totally incompetent when it comes to actually fighting the Others ,since fighting Others demands different tactics then fighting humans, so smarter people have to violently replace them. Then we have the fact that the existence (well, former existence) of Crastor indicates that the Others might not be utterly incapable of negotiations, and it's not implausible some lord or other will try to sell out his/her fellow humans to the Others in exchange for their own survival.

So I would say there is plenty of room for the game of thrones even with an invasion of Westeros by the Others, there will just be some new pieces in play.

[Volantene Republican Army]

Another thing, how many Others are out there? The way they're depicted it seems like there couldn't be more than a few hundred to a few thousand of them. If that's that case, then it's hard to see them having huge piched battles with southern folks. More likely, even if they make it past the wall, they'll remain a figure of menace, killing small amounts of people at night, and nibbling at the edges of an increasingly cold world.

In fact, maybe the defining fact of the long winter is that it’s long. So the time-line would be something like: the wall falls; the others escape into a westeros already in the grip of winter; the Others begin to harass the southerners; the Others keep the winter going indefinitely; and then over tens of years begin to build up their forces, gradually choking off the rest of the continent.

[Corvo Attano]

A lot of people are saying it, so I'll shorten it down: The Others aren't soldiers, they're predators. If they do make it south of the wall, they won't be fighting open battles, they will be sneaking around, picking off people who stray far from the herd. The Others MO is actually not dissimilar to that of Slender Man.

[The Sleeper]

For one thing I never considered the game of thrones to be any more significant that the other story lines. Two, I am fairly sure that there is going to be a massive social uprising in Essos fueled by religious fanaticism with Dany as a figurehead, which could have as dramatic consequences to Westeros as the invasion of the Others.

As others have mentioned there will be a wide variety of responces to these events. Some will want to meet the threats head on, some will try to run and hide, others will get holed in their castles and of course others will try to use the situation to their advantage. All of these sound positively fascinating to read.

I also think that the tactics employed by the Others are only the first stage of buiding a sizeable wight army. Once they have that, they will probably move on to attacks like on the fist if only to break up entrenched positions and then hunt the survivors at their leisure. After all for some reason they don't operate in sunlight which limits them, but then there is a Long Night ahead of us.

I don't think there will be much left of Westeros afterwards and the game will have caused more than its fair share of destruction.

[Morienthar]

The others may be predators,But some predators hunt together and a large band of predator's hunting in a single prey in a group would be hard to stop.

[The Fourth Head]

I for one will be mightily disappointed if the Others don't make an appearance south of the Wall. If they don't, it will be a massive anticlimax.

I don't think they themselves are what is so interesting at this stage (we know nothing)- it's their effects. Already, their threat has caused the total disintegration of authority amongst the NW, undermining the attempts of their commander to forge alliances with the former enemy. The question now is, without Jon, will the wildlngs and NW cooperate against this threat, or kill each other? As the threat expands beyond the wall, the same can be asked of Dorne vs the Reach, or Dorne vs the Lannisters, or Littlefinger vs...everyone? Roose and Stannis? Jon and Ramsey? Jon and Jamie? It's all on a knife-edge.

I find the heresy theories fascinating, if, ultimately, a waste of time. Why spend years theorising and second guessing the mind of someone when, once TWOW is written, it will all be for nothing? As addictive as it is, I think the re-read projects are far more useful in understanding the characters and the story in general.

Still, suffice to say, I agree that we do not understand the Others intent, and assuming they are hellbent on mindless apocalypse is just that- an assumption. I think at some stage a need to adapt to the terror of winter will occur- and I for one an looking forward to it. Just as Dragons are having a huge impact on politics (they won Daenerys an army, Victarion is sailing to steal them, Dorne's alliance is now unlikely due to Quentyn getting torched, etc, etc) and will continue to (Dragons will be able to torch armies of wights- so why not ally with her, or whoever has them?) so ice will probably also play a big part in politics, religion and philosophy. Will people start sacrificing to the great Other (a ala Craster) to save themselves? Has Roose been doing this already? does sacrificing save someone, but makes them the thrall to fear? Will people attempt to wield ice as a magic form? wouldn't wielding ice when armies can be snowed in be a super-awesome thing? If so, why not serve someone who can wield ice magic? What of death? Is it really worth resisting if you can become like Coldhands for example? Is it something to embrace? Is overcoming your fear of death the key? Is that what being the King of Winter means? If not, who to support? What will save you? who has Dragons? who has Dragonglass? will treating with the CofTF be the key?

so many questions!

Still- I think the Starks and Ice are synonymous, and all is not what it appears. The Starks enjoying the cold and thriving in it has been hinted at throughout the series, and there is an overwhelmingly clear link between the Starks and ice, and the Targaryans and fire. I think for everyone else, they will probably be left with a choice of which side to pick- do you get frozen to death, killed by the Others, or side with the Starks, risking the Dragons? Or do you get burnt to hell or side with Daenerys, risking the Others?

[yaalanhoo]

Has anyone thought that maybe the Others built the wall to keep the Humans out and not vice versa?

For one thing it is made of ice and GRRM has said that the Others can do things with ice that people can't.

Another is that the building of it, which by all accounts must have been a monumental effort, is not described even in Old Nan's stories....I think she says that it may have been raised by Bran the Builder but no one knows for sure.