If the Others make it past the Wall, won't it drastically change the entire feel of the series?

[Morienthar]

Has anyone thought that maybe the Others built the wall to keep the Humans out and not vice versa?

But humans can go to the other side,It's the others who can't come in,There are actually several thousands of men living on the other side of the wall.

[Corvo Attano]

Has anyone thought that maybe the Others built the wall to keep the Humans out and not vice versa?

For one thing it is made of ice and GRRM has said that the Others can do things with ice that people can't.

Another is that the building of it, which by all accounts must have been a monumental effort, is not described even in Old Nan's stories....I think she says that it may have been raised by Bran the Builder but no one knows for sure.

Humans can pass beneath the wall, but Others can't. I don't think they would have built a wall that allows their enemies through but not themselves.

[yaalanhoo]

But humans can go to the other side,It's the others who can't come in,There are actually several thousands of men living on the other side of the wall.

Well, yeah, 100,000 in Mance's army but they are trying to get South of it to avoid the Others.

Coldhands couldn't go through the portal in the Nightfort for magical reasons...do those magics prevent Others from crossing as well?

[Morienthar]

Well, yeah, 100,000 in Mance's army but they are trying to get South of it to avoid the Others.

Coldhands couldn't go through the portal in the Nightfort for magical reasons...do those magics prevent Others from crossing as well?

Yes,That's sort of the point of the Wall,It's there to guard the realms of men against the Others.

[RhaenysBee]

Unless they invent airplanes, they won't make it past the Wall. GRRM said WoW will take us farther North, that means the characters are going North and not the Others South.

Also, noticed, how it took a whole bloody book for Jaime and Brienne to get from the Riverlands to King's Landing? We have TWO books left and if the last one does not entirely focus on resolving all the twenty million billion conflicts we already have, it will spoil the whole entire story.

[The Fourth Head]

Yes,That's sort of the point of the Wall,It's there to guard the realms of men against the Others.

It's confusing. The Others are made of ice, and the Wall is a magical icy structure that keeps them out. If the CotF were responsible for building the wall, (highly likely given the magic imbued in it, the weirwood door, the lord's crow sitting on the shoulder of the Lord Commander offering advice, the fact that the NW are referred to as "crows" etc etc) then how can a race capable of manipulating ice like that not have a strong connection with the Others? We don't know for certain the Wall is made of anything but ice. All I know is that there is a big mystery regarding ice, the wall, the CotF, forgotten nameless old gods, the Night's King and misremembered history in general, and chances are, a surprise or two regarding roles and motives is most possible.

As an aside- do you think UnCat would have any fear of the Others now she has died? Would Jon if he was brought back? Is that what becoming the King of Winter requires? To conquer his fear of death? Is a man without fear no longer a man? This series increasingly seems centred on death, sacrifice, and passing beyond death. With two of them now potentially having passed beyond death, I love the whole aspect of fear tied in with the Others and the Starks. (Eddard- "I learned how to die a long time ago" Arya "fear cuts deeper than swords", Eddard "(being afraid) is the only time a man can be brave". As the Others embody a fear of death, with death itself running ahead of them (the mutiny at Crasters, the asassination of Jon) this relationship with fear, the Others and the Starks will be fascinating.

[yushkevsh]

Others don't like fire, dragons breathe fire.

My guess would be the Others scale (or topple or melt or whatever) the Wall around the time Dany makes her long-awaited debut in Westeros.

[King Tyrion VIII]

I for one will be mightily disappointed if the Others don't make an appearance south of the Wall. If they don't, it will be a massive anticlimax.

I don't think they themselves are what is so interesting at this stage (we know nothing)- it's their effects. Already, their threat has caused the total disintegration of authority amongst the NW, undermining the attempts of their commander to forge alliances with the former enemy. The question now is, without Jon, will the wildlngs and NW cooperate against this threat, or kill each other? As the threat expands beyond the wall, the same can be asked of Dorne vs the Reach, or Dorne vs the Lannisters, or Littlefinger vs...everyone? Roose and Stannis? Jon and Ramsey? Jon and Jamie? It's all on a knife-edge.

I find the heresy theories fascinating, if, ultimately, a waste of time. Why spend years theorising and second guessing the mind of someone when, once TWOW is written, it will all be for nothing? As addictive as it is, I think the re-read projects are far more useful in understanding the characters and the story in general.

Still, suffice to say, I agree that we do not understand the Others intent, and assuming they are hellbent on mindless apocalypse is just that- an assumption. I think at some stage a need to adapt to the terror of winter will occur- and I for one an looking forward to it. Just as Dragons are having a huge impact on politics (they won Daenerys an army, Victarion is sailing to steal them, Dorne's alliance is now unlikely due to Quentyn getting torched, etc, etc) and will continue to (Dragons will be able to torch armies of wights- so why not ally with her, or whoever has them?) so ice will probably also play a big part in politics, religion and philosophy. Will people start sacrificing to the great Other (a ala Craster) to save themselves? Has Roose been doing this already? does sacrificing save someone, but makes them the thrall to fear? Will people attempt to wield ice as a magic form? wouldn't wielding ice when armies can be snowed in be a super-awesome thing? If so, why not serve someone who can wield ice magic? What of death? Is it really worth resisting if you can become like Coldhands for example? Is it something to embrace? Is overcoming your fear of death the key? Is that what being the King of Winter means? If not, who to support? What will save you? who has Dragons? who has Dragonglass? will treating with the CofTF be the key?

so many questions!

Still- I think the Starks and Ice are synonymous, and all is not what it appears. The Starks enjoying the cold and thriving in it has been hinted at throughout the series, and there is an overwhelmingly clear link between the Starks and ice, and the Targaryans and fire. I think for everyone else, they will probably be left with a choice of which side to pick- do you get frozen to death, killed by the Others, or side with the Starks, risking the Dragons? Or do you get burnt to hell or side with Daenerys, risking the Others?

How would the Heresy threads all be for nothing?

[BannermanOfDorne]

I won't be able to help but feel a little dissapointed if the 'Others-storyline' is going to be limited to 'beyond the Wall'.

There has been almost nothing but foreshadowing throughout this series about the return of the Others to make it look like they are going to be the biggest threat/thing to all of Westeros when they finally decide to make their move. I can't see a climax worthy of all that foreshadowing if they're not even going to breach the Wall.

On the other hand with only 2 books to go I don't really see a grand invasion coming either...

[lostinwesteros]

My remembrance of the history is that 'way, 'way back when there was still enmity between the COTF and the First Men, it was the invasion by the Others [throughout Westeros] that caused the COTF and the FM to join together, and that's how the Others were defeated and driven up into the far, far North. Then, after that, the wall was constructed, by Brandon Stark and I believe some of the COTF as well, and that's when the magic was somehow woven into it that keeps the Others from penetrating it. [And, yep, there's magic in Winterfell, too, and the Stark who's still in Winterfell will play out part of that, I'm sure of it but can't prove it.]

Anyway, whether it's by the Others coming around the Wall [by sea or to the west of The Shadow Tower] or whether the wall is ruptured or torn down or whatever, there's just got to be an invasion by them into Westeros like there was 'way back. The series is, of course, building to a climax and although I have NO idea what that will be, IMO it's got to involve the Others, the Ice Dragon, Dany's Dragons, and Westerosi, at the very least. [i agree with whoever it was who said Martin wouldn't have created all of the new characters he has in the last books if they weren't still going to be around and play a significant role in what's to come.]

This is an incidental point and is purely part of the TV series, not Martin's books, but I did love the part in Dany's 'dreams' in the HOTU where she came into the Iron Throne room and it was deserted, torn down, and covered in snow.

Dum, da dum dum...

[Ser Arthyr Dracenstein]

Men can cross through the Wall via the gates in the Wall where the NW have built their castles, plus the weirwood gate under the Nightfort (there may be others that we don't know about yet) and these seem to have wards to prevent the Others and their wights from passing through (the wights in AGoT

had to brought through by men).

So if the Others had built the Wall to keep men out of the Far North, then maybe the Children had built these gates from the Far North to the North so that men , particularly the First Men and maybe in particularly the Starks, could go into the Far North to help them survive against the Others.

If that is so and the Others built the Wall, maybe they have built gates of their own and so don't have to bring the Wall down to pass through and we don't know because no PoV character has witnessed it yet.

And perhaps the poster who said the Boltons might be working for/with the Others was right.

And wasn't there an old theory that the defeated Others of the last war were buried under the Wall and the Wall was a prison? What if it was true but the Wall wasn't a prison, but someplace to preserve the Others so that they can awake once more?

Just a couple of thoughts. Debunk at will.

[Beorn Snow]

I´m not a big fan of the white walker plot per say. Most fantasies have a hero or a group of heroes saving the entire world from a magical menace. For the long night to be repeated after aeons and for a new AA to appear, all sounds very Wheel of Time-ish. (Not that I dislike those stories, I love fantasy). But the appeal of asoiaf was the political intrigue, the history of the noble lines and royal lines and the big question of the iron throne. I do though like the way the Others are ignored, just like politicians today ignore environmental risks and other real problems, while focusing on bullshit. But...

As frustrating as it will be for the game of thrones to be postponed is, it will have some bonuses.

I´d like to see the reactions of some characters to a zombie apocalypse.

f.x. Jaime and Brienne fighting walkers on a pile of corpses trying to reach a safe spot.

Or, the look on Cersei´s face (in tv-show portrayal) when she stands face to face with a whight.

Or KL completely smashed and covered with snow. (Yes, it would be bloody awesome, let the new dynasty build a different palace somewhere else, if there is one)

[hollowcrown]

The Others were awoken by the Wildlings hunting in dark places for the horn of Joramun weren't they?

Why were the Wildings trying to get south and bring down the wall, if they were the ones who woke the Others in the first place? Weird stuff going on here.

[hollowcrown]

Also is the horn of Joramun the same horn that Victarion has at the moment...that Euron found in Valyria? Maybe the horn binds the dragons to you, and then the dragons bring down the wall.

[Sunny D]

I am a big fan of: The Others built the wall.

The wall is old. It could have, at one point, been solid. any breaches in the wall could have been made after its construction. (castles and gates etc).

I think the whole Long night/wall myth will be revealed to be an Un-truth, and history has changed it with time. I think that the others are a sort of Sidhe, similar to a summer and winter fae court. this is the truth that will be revealed and jon will become some sort of mortal leader of the Others.

I also have a theory there was an alliance of sorts between the Others and the Northmen/Starks. and that they original Ice is actually a referance to the ice swords that the starks used to use.

its crackpot, and i havent articulated it well. but Jon becoming a hero and/or AA such is too easy

[jarl the climber]

Well, yeah, 100,000 in Mance's army but they are trying to get South of it to avoid the Others.

Coldhands couldn't go through the portal in the Nightfort for magical reasons...do those magics prevent Others from crossing as well?

In AGOT they were able to take the 2 wights they found through a gate. Its an open question if they could actually pass through an open gate under their own power.

[unSonofStannis]

Yes all of Westeros uniting to face a common threat and battling for survival would be terribly boring and predictable so there must be something more to the Others than meets the eye. Ive heard theories about them like Mance Rayder working with them or they're looking for the Starks to lead them, hopefully it turns out to be something like that.

[Morienthar]

It's confusing. The Others are made of ice, and the Wall is a magical icy structure that keeps them out. If the CotF were responsible for building the wall, (highly likely given the magic imbued in it, the weirwood door, the lord's crow sitting on the shoulder of the Lord Commander offering advice, the fact that the NW are referred to as "crows" etc etc) then how can a race capable of manipulating ice like that not have a strong connection with the Others? We don't know for certain the Wall is made of anything but ice. All I know is that there is a big mystery regarding ice, the wall, the CotF, forgotten nameless old gods, the Night's King and misremembered history in general, and chances are, a surprise or two regarding roles and motives is most possible.

As an aside- do you think UnCat would have any fear of the Others now she has died? Would Jon if he was brought back? Is that what becoming the King of Winter requires? To conquer his fear of death? Is a man without fear no longer a man? This series increasingly seems centred on death, sacrifice, and passing beyond death. With two of them now potentially having passed beyond death, I love the whole aspect of fear tied in with the Others and the Starks. (Eddard- "I learned how to die a long time ago" Arya "fear cuts deeper than swords", Eddard "(being afraid) is the only time a man can be brave". As the Others embody a fear of death, with death itself running ahead of them (the mutiny at Crasters, the asassination of Jon) this relationship with fear, the Others and the Starks will be fascinating.

1.Here comes my favourite theory-Others are Corrupted CotF,The wall is made of Ice what kind of Ice is a mystery.

2.I don't think being dead would lessen your fear of the others but it would lessen your fear of death,And yes the relationship between the Starks and Fear and Death is an interesting one also it's good to mention here that the R'hlor cult thinks of death as the greatest evil.

[West Cumbrian Wildling]

To answer the original question, have you ever watched Independence Day? That is how the book will feel once we have others south of the wall. All the major families will unite against the common enemy, however it will be like a horror film for the small folk.

Once the threat of the others starts to diminish however will the families stay united?? I think not someone will try and play the game of thrones again.

[Black Crow]

I am a big fan of: The Others built the wall.

The wall is old. It could have, at one point, been solid. any breaches in the wall could have been made after its construction. (castles and gates etc).

I think the whole Long night/wall myth will be revealed to be an Un-truth, and history has changed it with time. I think that the others are a sort of Sidhe, similar to a summer and winter fae court. this is the truth that will be revealed and jon will become some sort of mortal leader of the Others.

I also have a theory there was an alliance of sorts between the Others and the Northmen/Starks. and that they original Ice is actually a referance to the ice swords that the starks used to use.

its crackpot, and i havent articulated it well. but Jon becoming a hero and/or AA such is too easy

Heresy is calling to you - over on the ADwD page