ADWD least-liked book because...?

[total1402]

Cliff hangers, and nothing happens after over a thousand pages.

Martin all but smears my favourite character to make a deconstruction of a messianic hero figure and makes her an incompetant high school girl who is left helpless by mickey mouse enemies. So much for Tyrion and Illyrios remarks because that character is not in ADWD and how on earth this character is going to reach Westeros, let alone conquer it, is beyond me. But worse, he spends 10 massive chapters on this bloated mess just so that we really, really, really understand how much of a useless piece of shit Daenerys is in ADWD. Then, to add final insult, just as the character FINALLY says "fuck it I'll just kill them"; he ends the story. He made her so stupid that what sympathy he does make for her trying to help the slaves is completely overwhelmed.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

Dany's story, Tyrion's story and to a lesser extent, Jon's story were sluggish. Compared to GoT -> aSoS, it's like watching Nascar for half an hour, then they suddenly all slow down to 10 mph right as they're 3/4 of the way to the finish line.

[Winterfellian]

And tell me the purpose of Quentyn?

I actually enjoyed Quentyn's storyline. Besides providing a much needed reality check to Dany's antislavery campaign (his description of post-Dany Astapor as the closest thing to hell he hope ever to know was chilling) his death will probably shatter any potential Dany-Dorne alliance we could have expected at Dany's landing. This will become very significant since the second version of the Dance of the dragons seems inevitable by now.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

I actually enjoyed Quentyn's storyline. Besides providing a much needed reality check to Dany's antislavery campaign (his description of post-Dany Astapor as the closest thing to hell he hope ever to know was chilling) his death will probably shatter any potential Dany-Dorne alliance we could have expected at Dany's landing. This will become very significant since the second version of the Dance of the dragons seems inevitable by now.

Mm hm. I loved Quentyn and actually had tears well up (I don't cry over book characters... Normally) when I read of how his friends cradled his head when he died by dragonfire. He was the redeeming (well, him and Barristan Selmy) aspect of the Mereen storyline. It was essentially a Prince of Dorne walking up to Dany, offering his hand and 50,000 spears and a worthy alliance of a Queen of Westeros, with a minor, foreign aristocrat who had no familial distinction to speak of, and the Westerosi certainly wouldn't accept as King. She had given it up for a temporary peace in a city she (apparently) didn't intend to keep forever, as well as giving the pathetic excuse of "Well, he doesn't have them with him now.", as if she would expect Dorne to solve her problems half of a world away.

[raj34]

A blizzard of cliffhangers and way too much bloat. Also, moving the ending of ADWD will screw up the narrative structure of tWoW and probably make an eighth book necessary.

Anne Groell was completely AWOL on this one. An unmitigated editorial debacle. It's a shame too because I believe a one volume "Feast of Dragons" including most of the missing payoffs could have surpassed even aSoS.

[hollowcrown]

Mm hm. I loved Quentyn and actually had tears well up (I don't cry over book characters... Normally) when I read of how his friends cradled his head when he died by dragonfire. He was the redeeming (well, him and Barristan Selmy) aspect of the Mereen storyline. It was essentially a Prince of Dorne walking up to Dany, offering his hand and 50,000 spears and a worthy alliance of a Queen of Westeros. She had given it up for a temporary peace in a city she (apparently) didn't intend to keep forever, as well as giving the pathetic excuse of "Well, he doesn't have them with him now.", as if she would expect Dorne to solve her problems half of a world away.

Plus poor Quentyn wasn't hot enough for Dany.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

Plus poor Quentyn wasn't hot enough for Dany.

Ah yes, forgot about that.

[Doctor Steve Brule]

with jon potentially dead, stannis maybe dead, dany at the dragon aids whim of a khal-

the real cliffhanger of the book is-

where did whores go?

[Maegor the Cuddly]

with jon potentially dead, stannis maybe dead, dany at the dragon aids whim of a khal-

the real cliffhanger of the book is-

where did whores go?

I swear that quote has been repeated enough in the book that I don't need to read it any more... He's not even looking for it, yet he keeps asking it as if it'll help him find it.

[Faint]

I like it well enough but some of its sins are unforgivable. The sad thing is most of its problems would have been resolved had certain characters (i.e., Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion) been stripped off chapters in order to give other characters more chapters.

Imagine a book where, instead of Jon-Daenerys-Tyrion having 35 chapters, they had 25 chapters, and there was 10 more chapters to give everybody else.

[hollowcrown]

Also - no payoff for the Others.

The Others open the saga and are one of the biggest threats - loads of my TV watching friends think they're really cool - "Wow I can't wait to learn more about the White Walkers!".

Then the Others are just completely absent from both Feast and Dance. Nothing happens regarding them or anything, it's like they just stopped trying to do whatever they do after Sam killed one of them.

[Swan Targ]

Cliff hangers, and nothing happens after over a thousand pages.

Martin all but smears my favourite character to make a deconstruction of a messianic hero figure and makes her an incompetant high school girl who is left helpless by mickey mouse enemies. So much for Tyrion and Illyrios remarks because that character is not in ADWD and how on earth this character is going to reach Westeros, let alone conquer it, is beyond me. But worse, he spends 10 massive chapters on this bloated mess just so that we really, really, really understand how much of a useless piece of shit Daenerys is in ADWD. Then, to add final insult, just as the character FINALLY says "fuck it I'll just kill them"; he ends the story. He made her so stupid that what sympathy he does make for her trying to help the slaves is completely overwhelmed.

Sadly, I agree

Dany was kinda ruined in ADWD. I think GRRM was trying to show she is still just a girl, but still

Just when she rode the dragon I was like fuck yeah just so later on we find out it was out of nowhere and she still has no idea on how to control the beast

And on her last chapter, when we are finally going somewhere, it ends lol

Can she ride the dragon? can she control it? will drogon kill the dorthraki? will he fly off to his dragonstone and leave her there?

That bothered me

[Maegor the Cuddly]

I like it well enough but some of its sins are unforgivable. The sad thing is most of its problems would have been resolved had certain characters (i.e., Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion) been stripped off chapters in order to give other characters more chapters.

Imagine a book where, instead of Jon-Daenerys-Tyrion having 35 chapters, they had 25 chapters, and there was 10 more chapters to give everybody else.

Agreed. I wouldn't have minded extra Davos POV chapters, or even Areo to give some background as to the Dornish plot, or better yet, Jon Connington who manages to go from, Essos, to taking over Griffin's Roost all in one chapter. It was one of my favorite chapters, because there was change, a big change in the story and the political climate as a result.

[Zared]

it's not the best book, but I liked it. It had some of the best chapters of the series so far.

[ckongo]

ADWD being the worst in a series like ASOIF may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Yet, I find AFFC to be the worst. The last two feel incomplete, but ADWD interested me more. The Essos stuff was hard to get into largely because of what you said. Things like Theon's chapters which were my favorite in the series put it ahead of AFFC for me.

My belief of best novels in the series are 3,2,1,5,4

[Faint]

Agreed. I wouldn't have minded extra Davos POV chapters, or even Areo to give some background as to the Dornish plot, or better yet, Jon Connington who manages to go from, Essos, to taking over Griffin's Roost all in one chapter. It was one of my favorite chapters, because there was change, a big change in the story and the political climate as a result.

The thing is, I really feel the same Daenerys story could have been told in 7 chapters instead of 10, the same Jon story in 9 chapters instead of 13, and the same Tyrion story in 8 chapters instead of 12. If you do that, the Battle of Winterfell and the Battle of Meereen fit into A Dance with Dragons.

[Swan Targ]

I swear that quote has been repeated enough in the book that I don't need to read it any more... He's not even looking for it, yet he keeps asking it as if it'll help him find it.

I really didn't get the point of repeating that so much.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

The thing is, I really feel the same Daenerys story could have been told in 7 chapters instead of 10, the same Jon story in 9 chapters instead of 13, and the same Tyrion story in 8 chapters instead of 12. If you do that, the Battle of Winterfell and the Battle of Meereen fit into A Dance with Dragons.

I think that's another thing the story lacks. A good battle. What was the last serious battle we had in the series? Stannis's curbstomping of the Wildlings? That happened in ASOS... We need our fix of large-scale bloodshed... Putting in the Battle of Winterfell and the Battle of Meereen would more than satiate us bloodthirsty fans.

I really didn't get the point of repeating that so much.

By the end of the book I was convinced it was stuck in his head, like a song that you don't like yet heard someone singing, and can't stop repeating it in your head.

[Harroway]

Agreed. I wouldn't have minded extra Davos POV chapters, or even Areo to give some background as to the Dornish plot, or better yet, Jon Connington who manages to go from, Essos, to taking over Griffin's Roost all in one chapter. It was one of my favorite chapters, because there was change, a big change in the story and the political climate as a result.

This. Agree on JonCon, he had only two chapters but they were concise and effective. The first introduces the Golden Company and explains why they won't go to Dany. The second is all about the early invasion and what's next. If only it went the same way for the other POVs.

In Dance, I find the Essos part draggy but the Westerosi part is rather compelling. Its major flaws: no conclusion (battle of meereen, battle of winterfell, Cersei/Marg trial) and we still know nothing about the Others.

[RenlyIsNotRight]

Half of ADWD was amazing (read: everything that happened in Westeros)

The other half of ADWD was...not so much (read: everything that happened in Essos, especially Meereen)