ADWD least-liked book because...?

[locke and key]

I don't see a lack of resolution or cliff-hangers as a problem, per se, given that the story has not yet been concluded.

There was very little resolution, and plenty of cliffhangers, at the end of ACOK.

no adwd is far more riddled with non-resolved cliff hangers, while it's true that most characters have a new path to follow at the end of acok they also have resolution for their old one, for instance while being faced with a new situation at the end of acok, tyrion also has resolved his storyline of that book by realising that he's good at ruling and wants to continue and arya while heading off to a new destination also has learn't lessons in harrenhal and has realised that she has to fend for herself and escape herself rather than have someone do it for her, whereas even in theons storyline in adwd which IMO is the most complete arc in adwd he just has a bemusing cliffhanger where he suddenly jumps off winterfell.

[Greyjoy67]

It's better than AFFC, but tbh, if you ignore fact we're all in love with Martin's universe and suck up anything he offers.... for the most part, both books are badly paced, badly structured stories that take too long to get anywhere and frequently have no pay-off. Quentyn and Brienne's storylines may as well be thrown in the bin when we reach them in the series, for all the excitement we get.

[Table8]

The book is long and slow. Mereen was an annoying mess. Too many words without any real action. It felt like GRRM focused too much time providing details of the scenery than actual plot movement (tyrion's chapters especially) And after reading so many pages, not one resolution?!?

It wasn't all bad. The North storyline was amazing. That last Davos chapter with Wyman was the most satisfying in the book. The Theon chapters were wonderful.

It will be interesting to see non readers' response when the tv series gets to AFFC and ADWD. I'm sure "jump the shark" will be used often...

[hollowcrown]

I don't see a lack of resolution or cliff-hangers as a problem, per se, given that the story has not yet been concluded.

There was very little resolution, and plenty of cliffhangers, at the end of ACOK.

Every arc had it's own little conclusion though - Jon had to join the Wildlings, having served time as a Ranger, the Blackwater had been concluded, same with Tyrion's time as hand, and Daenerys had got her prophecy and decided to leave Qarth.

The end of Dance is the equivalent to if Clash had ended just before the Battle of the Blackwater happened. Everyone would've been like WTf!!! And it messes up the narrative for the next book too.

[Swan Targ]

I like AFFC and ADWD

Though ADWD was kinda dragging at some points

It did get a lot better towards the end

[hollowcrown]

Anyone else feel as if there was too much travelogue and downtime in general? It got to the point where every moment of Dany and Tyrion's life got documented in a chapter. When Cat travelled to King's Landing in AGoT it didn't take as long as Tyrion's slow meandering journey.

[SeanF]

Every arc had it's own little conclusion though - Jon had to join the Wildlings, having served time as a Ranger, the Blackwater had been concluded, same with Tyrion's time as hand, and Daenerys had got her prophecy and decided to leave Qarth.

The end of Dance is the equivalent to if Clash had ended just before the Battle of the Blackwater happened. Everyone would've been like WTf!!! And it messes up the narrative for the next book too.

At the end of ACOK, we don't know whether Tyrion, Theon or Davos are alive or dead. Sansa' s story is up in the air. We don't know whether or not Catelyn killed Jaime. We don't know if Jon will survive meeting Mance Rayder, or what will happen to Arya. I'd say there's a great deal that's not concluded.

[The Great Walrus]

For me it was the lack of progress in Danys arc and the disappointing cliffhangers that i'll have to wait for years to be resolved.

[ServantOnIce]

I'm sort of getting beat up elsewhere on the Internet because I said that many people found ADWD harder to like largely due to at least half of it taking place in Essos. The names were more difficult, the culture not as familiar, made it harder to get into. Was this a factor in your disliking of ADWD, compared to the other books? Don't get me wrong, ADWD is still a decent book, but compared to the others, (IMHO) the Essosi plots were more difficult to get into. Thoughts?

I think that ADWD is the worst book in the series. There are things about AFFC that is redeemable but there are things about ADWD that are beyond redemption.

The prologue is just boring, it serves no real purpose. I was anticipating Tyrion, Daenarys, and Jon Snow, and except for Snow the other two were boring. Daenarys did nothing but have a bunch of sex and made horrible governing decisions.

Tyrion finally seemed to have found a family amongst the outcasts of the Shy Maid, and it falls apart.

It goes nowhere; the book goes nowhere and doesn't get cranking until the last third of the book. Then I really feel that it moves into light speed, but overall the plot is convoluted and there are so many POV characters you just get lost, and not in a good way.

Also, the event with Jon Snow felt rushed and cheap, didn't make sense at the time. Melisandre, Shireen, Selyse and King's Men are still at the Wall why try something like that? It makes no sense.

Awful book, JMO.

[hollowcrown]

At the end of ACOK, we don't know whether Tyrion, Theon or Davos are alive or dead. Sansa' s story is up in the air. We don't know whether or not Catelyn killed Jaime. We don't know if Jon will survive meeting Mance Rayder, or what will happen to Arya. I'd say there's a great deal that's not concluded.

The arcs feel like more complete character developments than:

• Bran sitting in a tree. Where is Jojen?
  
• Jaime runs off with Brienne....somewhere
  
• Dany stands in front of some Dothraki. We have no idea how much control she has over her Dragon
  
• Theon jumps off a wall
  
• Stannis?!?! No idea.
  
• Jon is stabbed.
  
• Sam is in the Citadel doing...something
  
• Barristan takes over a city in order to do...something
  
• Aeron is on the Iron Islands doing...something.
  
• Cersei is STILL waiting for her trial by combat
  
• Arya has someone elses' face or something. No idea what she's going to do next.
  
• Victarion still has yet to sail somewhere significant
  
• Tyrion still hasn't met Dany.
  
• The battle of Winterfell and Mereen are both left COMPLETELY UNRESOLVED. (WHICH MEANS the narrative structure of the next book will suffer in a way that the cliffhangers at the end of Clash didnt cause because the big climaxes of the respective storylines in Clash had all occured)
  

[The Fourth Head]

Anyone else feel as if there was too much travelogue and downtime in general? It got to the point where every moment of Dany and Tyrion's life got documented in a chapter. When Cat travelled to King's Landing in AGoT it didn't take as long as Tyrion's slow meandering journey.

I agree, If GRRM sticks to this present pace, nothing will get resolved in 2 books' time.

[Nerolunar]

Lets just be patient. Im sure he can wrap it up nicely... Or atleast I hope so..

[Swan Targ]

Anyone else feel as if there was too much travelogue and downtime in general? It got to the point where every moment of Dany and Tyrion's life got documented in a chapter. When Cat travelled to King's Landing in AGoT it didn't take as long as Tyrion's slow meandering journey.

Yes, that's what dragged the book

[David Selig]

Too much of Jon, too much of Slaver's Bay, too many cliffhangers. And too much bloat and repetition in general. Tyrion whining non-stop and asking about whores got old really quickly. Look at Davos's second chapter. it could've easily been a single page.

[kiasyd]

And tell me the purpose of Quentyn?

To fulfil MMD prophecy. :dunno:

[Nictarion]

I liked it better than AFFC. I missed Dany and Jon in Feast. But they are my favorite characters so I'm biased.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

When I was reading the pre-ADWD archive, many people were expecting Dany to finally come to Westeros (one reason, the misleading dancing dragons title) but GRRM took a different route. He wrote one book full of "consequences of your actions if you conquered three slaver cities, aftermath after you killed your daddy, and difficulties you have to face being the LC of the NW," instead of writing what his readers wanted to happen in that book. I was kinda disappointed too after finishing ADWD, but after re-reading it, I sort of pick a few bits of what GRRM wanted to tell to his readers (though I'm more of "I want more actions and less of that" :P). But I like this book more than AFFC, tbh.

[Maxpey]

I actually liked ADwD. I thought it was far better than the slow and plodding AFfC where I felt like nothing relevant happened.

:agree: However, like others I do wish there was a little more plot advancement, especially in Essos.

[PatrickStormborn]

It was unfinished, and a lot of the material was simply unneccessary.

[The Boar of Gore]

I like AFFC and ADWD, there are some great moments, but there's not enough story progression and they need editing. And the female characters in particular seem to regress. Sansa was supposed to have learned to be brave in her own way and not to be too trusting by this point. Daenerys seems to run out of drive for most of ADWD until the end. Cersei, you could almost admire Cersei when she made her speech to Ned Stark in GOT, but she's now a trainwreck.