Stannis' recruitment plans

[KingHodorTargaryen]

We are talking about the end of the war, when all is said and done. I am assuming the Aegon situation is settled, the war with the Others is settled, and Jon is settled:

1. I doubt Dany will just ship all of her people back across the sea to Essos.

2. I doubt a large number of Dothraki are going to die in the great battle.

3. The Dothraki are by nature slavers, rapers, and pillagers, but a strong leader (Dany) will change that, just like we are expecting her to do the same with the iron men.

4. No one is talking about occupation, unless she means to leave the Dothraki to in Meeree. She would never be that dumb. She needs them for battle so she will not leave them behind. Resettlement is the only real solution after the war.

5. Dorne makes by far the most sense. The climate and topology are the most similar. They will be right at home in southern Dorne next to the Greenblood.

1. She might have to.

2. If you puts them in the front lines, which makes sense, they will.

3. Then Ironmen were not originally slavers, though they do take thralls. All Dany needs to do is to give some land from the Reach, Westerlands, or Riverlands to the Iron Islands to support themselves.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

1. She might have to.

2. If you puts them in the front lines, which makes sense, they will.

3. Then Ironmen were not originally slavers, though they do take thralls. All Dany needs to do is to give some land from the Reach, Westerlands, or Riverlands to the Iron Islands to support themselves.

1. Not really, there is a place for them.

2. Why does it make sense to put them on the front lines? The Northern ice would be their worst climate. Forget the culling idea, thats now how Dany operates.

3. Oh is that all...lol. I'm sure those countries will be more than willing to just offer up land to the ironborn troops who have waged war and raided them for thousands of years.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

1. Not really, there is a place for them.

2. Why does it make sense to put them on the front lines? The Northern ice would be their worst climate. Forget the culling idea, thats now how Dany operates.

3. Oh is that all...lol. I'm sure those countries will be more than willing to just offer up land to the ironborn troops who have waged war and raided them for thousands of years.

1. It still is very difficult to settle them.

2. Why not put fearless savage warriors in the front? No one in Westeros is adequately dealed to fight the Others. Dothraki fighting style fits best with the Others. Remember very first prologue of GOT? Royce fought one on one against the Other. That how Dothraki get things done. They don't always have to fight on horseback as well, Drogo was very adept at that.

3. Dany will want retribution for what Tywin did, so Westerlands and Tyrion should take what they can get. The Reach will likely fight for Aegon, so there's that as well. There's also a soon to be vacant castle known as the Twins....

[Napyura]

1. It still is very difficult to settle them.

2. Why not put fearless savage warriors in the front? No one in Westeros is adequately dealed to fight the Others. Dothraki fighting style fits best with the Others. Remember very first prologue of GOT? Royce fought one on one against the Other. That how Dothraki get things done. They don't always have to fight on horseback as well, Drogo was very adept at that.

3. Dany will want retribution for what Tywin did, so Westerlands and Tyrion should take what they can get. The Reach will likely fight for Aegon, so there's that as well. There's also a soon to be vacant castle known as the Twins....

And Baratheon alliance n2 around Stannis in being force from Riverlands & North?

I think it wouldn't be interesting with only 2 armies.

[Tini]

3. Dany will want retribution for what Tywin did, so Westerlands and Tyrion should take what they can get. The Reach will likely fight for Aegon, so there's that as well. There's also a soon to be vacant castle known as the Twins....

The castles may be empty of their ruling family. Farmers and servants will still be there. I don't think they will take kindly to getting displaced or turned into Ironborn thralls.

The Ironborn must change. Theon and Asha could work towards change; unlike Victarion, they can see the need for change. Dany can see the need for change but she can't change the Ironborn if she needs to look after parts of Essos and all of Westeros as well. She has already found out that she can't even force change on a single city.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

There is shortage of food in half of the realm and winter has come, when Daenerys lands in westeros during this, with a vast army of Dothraki and all its people, how will she feed them? Bringing all of the Dothraki to westeros would be logistically unlikely, she will bring an army but neither can she bring the Dothraki khalasars, there are on an average 20,000 people in one khalasar, and those are the small ones, Daenerys will take control of Dothraki sure, but she cant bring them all, where is she going to find that may ships to bring all of her armies to Westeros, she will get ships but not for the staggering numbers you are suggesting.

We don't know exactly what the Rhoynar were, but they certainly came from a civilized life, if you have read the Tyrion chapters, there were palaces on the rhoyne that were once part of their kingdom, the Rhoynar exodus did cause war in Dorne, and Daeron the young tried to take Dorne but he never could hold it.

I didn't say no hope for Dothraki, the dothraki warriors who came to westeros to fight for Dany can return to Essos after the wars are done, and please explain the connection to Iron men, I think Dany will land in the vale with sufficient army but not so large that it would cause her logistical problems.

And Dorne is going to side with Aegon, not Daenerys, Aegon has already landed and Doran is going to act, and Arriane will play a role as well.

1. Who said she was bringing every khalasar? Likely she will bring the one she takes from Jhaqo (20,000 strong), some of her unsullied, some sell swords, and the ironmen. I estimate her army to be 30k strong. Additionally, she will bring a huge amount of stores and supplies with her. Also, after Slaver's Bay is settled Meereen and Essos will become a stable supplier of food.

2. Palaces don't denote civilized life. We know they were a warlike people for sure. They fled Essos after losing to Valyria and joined with House Martell to conquer Dorne. The Targaryen invasions had nothing to do with the Rhoynar per se. The invasions were the Targaryens ongoing attempt to bring Dorne into the fold by force.

3. Why have them fight and die only to return? They should certainly be given the option to return if that is their choice. But victory and death on the battlefield should earn them a place in Westeros if they so choose it. They will make them abandon the old ways for sure.

4. Ironmen are warlike, rapers, slavers (thralls and salt wives are slaves), looters, plunderer's. If you cannot see the similarity I don't know. They will have to abandon the old ways as well.

5. Dorne may side with Aegon, but what of it. It has nothing to do with after the war. It will make an excellent place for integrating the Dothraki if the logistics can be worked out.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

The castles may be empty of their ruling family. Farmers and servants will still be there. I don't think they will take kindly to getting displaced or turned into Ironborn thralls.

The Ironborn must change. Theon and Asha could work towards change; unlike Victarion, they can see the need for change. Dany can see the need for change but she can't change the Ironborn if she needs to look after parts of Essos and all of Westeros as well. She has already found out that she can't even force change on a single city.

I certainly agree the Ironborn must change. The thing is, they are easier to change than Dothraki. Ironborn are like Vikings, they needed to raid to sustain family. If the Ironborn stops taking thralls, then it would work fine provided they have enough land.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

1. Who said she was bringing every khalasar? Likely she will bring the one she takes from Jhaqo (20,000 strong), some of her unsullied, some sell swords, and the ironmen. I estimate her army to be 30k strong. Additionally, she will bring a huge amount of stores and supplies with her. Also, after Slaver's Bay is settled Meereen and Essos will become a stable supplier of food.

2. Palaces don't denote civilized life. We know they were a warlike people for sure. They fled Essos after losing to Valyria and joined with House Martell to conquer Dorne. The Targaryen invasions had nothing to do with the Rhoynar per se. The invasions were the Targaryens ongoing attempt to bring Dorne into the fold by force.

3. Why have them fight and die only to return? They should certainly be given the option to return if that is their choice. But victory and death on the battlefield should earn them a place in Westeros if they so choose it. They will make them abandon the old ways for sure.

4. Ironmen are warlike, rapers, slavers (thralls and salt wives are slaves), looters, plunderer's. If you cannot see the similarity I don't know. They will have to abandon the old ways as well.

5. Dorne may side with Aegon, but what of it. It has nothing to do with after the war. It will make an excellent place for integrating the Dothraki if the logistics can be worked out.

1. Unless she only takes the Dothraki, Unsullied and the Ironborn lose half of their men in battle, this is not logical. I estimate maybe 20K from Dothraki, 6K from Unsullied, 7K from Ironborn, 15K from any freedmen, and 7K from Volanteen defectors.

2. Agreed.

3. Dany herself reformed about 100 Dothraki with the hatchling dragons. I suppose 10K is the maximum number anyone could hope to control.

4. Agreed.

5. Dorne is the best place to put them, except for maybe the Iron Islands for the breeding of horses/ staying out of anyone's way. But I would think Dany would want to keep some control over the Dothraki, and putting them in a kingdom that is very probably going to be hostile to her doesn't seem like sound advice.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

1. Unless she only takes the Dothraki, Unsullied and the Ironborn lose half of their men in battle, this is not logical. I estimate maybe 20K from Dothraki, 6K from Unsullied, 7K from Ironborn, 15K from any freedmen, and 7K from Volanteen defectors.

2. Agreed.

3. Dany herself reformed about 100 Dothraki with the hatchling dragons. I suppose 10K is the maximum number anyone could hope to control.

4. Agreed.

5. Dorne is the best place to put them, except for maybe the Iron Islands for the breeding of horses/ staying out of anyone's way. But I would think Dany would want to keep some control over the Dothraki, and putting them in a kingdom that is very probably going to be hostile to her doesn't seem like sound advice.

1. Its logical if you take into account that she will some kind of force to oversee Meereen's safety and reconstruction (which I did). She stayed to rebuild that city, she won't leave it to the dogs.

3. Why is 10k the max? She will be the undisputed ruler this time around. Once she kills jhaqo she can begin to set new policy.

5. Iron Islands? I have to disagree on that one. The Dothraki don't need isolation, they need to be exposed to civilization and change.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

1. Its logical if you take into account that she will some kind of force to oversee Meereen's safety and reconstruction (which I did). She stayed to rebuild that city, she won't leave it to the dogs.

3. Why is 10k the max? She will be the undisputed ruler this time around. Once she kills jhaqo she can begin to set new policy.

5. Iron Islands? I have to disagree on that one. The Dothraki don't need isolation, they need to be exposed to civilization and change.

1. In A Storm of Swords, the estimate for her army was about 80K, not including anything from Meereen. If she left 40K people at Meereen, she still has about 50K actual people.

2. She cannot control too many Dothraki just like the Tyrells and Lannisters cannot and will not be able to control the Faith.

3. I had a recent idea that if Dany could instill some supernatural fear into the Dothraki about the sea and oceans, and control them that way. However, telling half naked savages that rape and kill as they please to play nice is not a good idea. Splitting them up between Dorne, Stormlands, Crownlands, and the Reach to place more control over smaller groups would be more beneficial.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

1. In A Storm of Swords, the estimate for her army was about 80K, not including anything from Meereen. If she left 40K people at Meereen, she still has about 50K actual people.

2. She cannot control too many Dothraki just like the Tyrells and Lannisters cannot and will not be able to control the Faith.

3. I had a recent idea that if Dany could instill some supernatural fear into the Dothraki about the sea and oceans, and control them that way. However, telling half naked savages that rape and kill as they please to play nice is not a good idea. Splitting them up between Dorne, Stormlands, Crownlands, and the Reach to place more control over smaller groups would be more beneficial.

1. I question this number. For sure, she had 11,200 unsullied, the Stormcrows, the Second Sons, and her freedman. The vast majority of the freed slaves were not warriors.

2. What on earth does changing the customs and practices of the Dothraki have to do with the Faith? You are comparing apples to oranges here.

3. I have to think about this one some more. Dorne and its culture make the most sense. They may not adapt as well to the other regions.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

1. I question this number. For sure, she had 11,200 unsullied, the Stormcrows, the Second Sons, and her freedman. The vast majority of the freed slaves were not warriors.

2. What on earth does changing the customs and practices of the Dothraki have to do with the Faith? You are comparing apples to oranges here.

3. I have to think about this one some more. Dorne and its culture make the most sense. They may not adapt as well to the other regions.

1. In A Dance of Dragons, there are many references to how the freedmen were being trained and could fight decently. I would expect one fourth of the freed people to fight.

2. I am simply stating how the Lannisters and Tyrells are having increasingly large problems with the Faith, especially with Cersei's asinine decision to let themselves arm. This is because these people have strong religious and cultural ideals that they fervently worship. This is much like the Dothraki, who fight due to religious and cultural ideals.

3. The culture itself maybe. However, having one large mass of Dothraki is not ideal. I would accept this more if there were say fifty small groups, which could be molded into more civilized people.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

1. In A Dance of Dragons, there are many references to how the freedmen were being trained and could fight decently. I would expect one fourth of the freed people to fight.

2. I am simply stating how the Lannisters and Tyrells are having increasingly large problems with the Faith, especially with Cersei's asinine decision to let themselves arm. This is because these people have strong religious and cultural ideals that they fervently worship. This is much like the Dothraki, who fight due to religious and cultural ideals.

3. The culture itself maybe. However, having one large mass of Dothraki is not ideal. I would accept this more if there were say fifty small groups, which could be molded into more civilized people.

1. Once the slavers are broken, Essos will be a different continent of sorts. Dany can finish filtering out the rebellion in Meereen and settle her freedmen there. I do not expect very many of them to make the trip to Westeros. She needs warriors and thats who she will take. Fighting decently does not make you a warrior.

2. The Dothraki fight and live because they know no other way. The Faith is actually interested in opposing injustice. The Tyrells and Lannisters are having problems with the Faith because of Cersei's many crimes. The Faith initially opposed the Targs because of their incestuous marriage practices. You point to a larger similarity based upon culture and religion, but do not see it. The Dothraki and the Faith are diametrically opposite.

3. Maybe Doran or Arianne could divide the Dothraki amongst their many lords, in completely different sections of Dorne. The Martells would take the most and settle them down by the Greenblood. The Yronwoods and Fowlers would take some to the Prince's Pass and Boneway respectively. Similarly, the Daynes, Quorgles, Manwoodys, Tollands, etc,. could take a portion. Dorne is big enough to separate the what is left of the Dothraki after the war.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

1. Once the slavers are broken, Essos will be a different continent of sorts. Dany can finish filtering out the rebellion in Meereen and settle her freedmen there. I do not expect very many of them to make the trip to Westeros. She needs warriors and thats who she will take. Fighting decently does not make you a warrior.

2. The Dothraki fight and live because they know no other way. The Faith is actually interested in opposing injustice. The Tyrells and Lannisters are having problems with the Faith because of Cersei's many crimes. The Faith initially opposed the Targs because of their incestuous marriage practices. You point to a larger similarity based upon culture and religion, but do not see it. The Dothraki and the Faith are diametrically opposite.

3. Maybe Doran or Arianne could divide the Dothraki amongst their many lords, in completely different sections of Dorne. The Martells would take the most and settle them down by the Greenblood. The Yronwoods and Fowlers would take some to the Prince's Pass and Boneway respectively. Similarly, the Daynes, Quorgles, Manwoodys, Tollands, etc,. could take a portion. Dorne is big enough to separate the what is left of the Dothraki after the war.

1. Tyrion would tell her Aegon will have landed in Dorne, and is rapidly gaining support. He would advise her to assume everyone to be an enemy. She needs all the help she can get. Also, it would not be too much of a stretch to assume there are 15K soldiers/ sellswords/ new knights that she would take. Tyrion knows the Golden Company, Dorne, and maybe some other lords would go to Aegon. He knows they are led by Jon Connington, a competent leader. He saw the training and studies that Aegon went through. I'm am sure Barristan, Vic, Jorah, Grey Worm, and the sellsword captains would feel similarly. Also, all this is assuming Meereen is left somewhat intact, which it is quite possibly not going to be.

2. I point to how the upbringing of fight to live/ love the gods is similar because it equates to how they style their lives, and how hard it is to change something you have been raised from birth to follow.

3. I am looking at the map, and I count about 15 castles/ towns with a lot of empty space near Hellholt. Assuming that the maximum number in each group is about 100, there would be 100 groups to spread around Dorne, with significant culling of the original number. Dorne would most likely hold the largest number of these groups, but it could be most simply fixed by placing these fearless savage warriors against the horde of undead.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

1. Tyrion would tell her Aegon will have landed in Dorne, and is rapidly gaining support. He would advise her to assume everyone to be an enemy. She needs all the help she can get. Also, it would not be too much of a stretch to assume there are 15K soldiers/ sellswords/ new knights that she would take. Tyrion knows the Golden Company, Dorne, and maybe some other lords would go to Aegon. He knows they are led by Jon Connington, a competent leader. He saw the training and studies that Aegon went through. I'm am sure Barristan, Vic, Jorah, Grey Worm, and the sellsword captains would feel similarly. Also, all this is assuming Meereen is left somewhat intact, which it is quite possibly not going to be.

2. I point to how the upbringing of fight to live/ love the gods is similar because it equates to how they style their lives, and how hard it is to change something you have been raised from birth to follow.

3. I am looking at the map, and I count about 15 castles/ towns with a lot of empty space near Hellholt. Assuming that the maximum number in each group is about 100, there would be 100 groups to spread around Dorne, with significant culling of the original number. Dorne would most likely hold the largest number of these groups, but it could be most simply fixed by placing these fearless savage warriors against the horde of undead.

1. Until proven otherwise, I expect Dany and Tyrion to assume Aegon is who he says he is (albeit cautiously). Dany will not make war against the son of her beloved Rhaegar unless he is a phony. All of the saber rattling involving Dany and Aegon is premature until more facts come out. I refused to believe she will pre-emptivley prepare to strike Aegon.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

1. Until proven otherwise, I expect Dany and Tyrion to assume Aegon is who he says he is (albeit cautiously). Dany will not make war against the son of her beloved Rhaegar unless he is a phony. All of the saber rattling involving Dany and Aegon is premature until more facts come out. I refused to believe she will pre-emptivley prepare to strike Aegon.

The dragons will be the ones to decide. If they don't like him, it's war. If one of them snuggles up and gets all cozy with him, Dany can kiss the Iron Throne goodbye. Besides, plenty of other enemies to fight, like Cersei if she is still alive, the Others, and Euron. Tyrion is certainly ready to fight him if Aegon doesn't give him Casterly Rock.

[The Mountain That Posts]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I find it cute that you all truely believe that Manderly would legitimately pledge felty to Stannis along with all the other Northern lords.

If ANYTHING, I feel like Manderly will be USING Stannis until Rickon is in a position to be crowned king and Stannis will be offed.

I expect a Stannis assassination once he's outdone his usefulness in ridding the north of Bolton.

[jarl the climber]

1. Until proven otherwise, I expect Dany and Tyrion to assume Aegon is who he says he is (albeit cautiously). Dany will not make war against the son of her beloved Rhaegar unless he is a phony. All of the saber rattling involving Dany and Aegon is premature until more facts come out. I refused to believe she will pre-emptivley prepare to strike Aegon.

I also think that Dany will want to beleive that he is the real deal. People tend to overlook the vision she had in the HOTU about Rhaegar talking to Elia about naming him. The fact that her brothers freind(JonC) is involved would seem to be good but Illryios and Varys connection to him might give her some pause. She probaly will not be near Westeros til the end of next book so I do not see anything developing immeadeatly. Still people will doubt Aegons claim but be willing to declare for Dany who they know is a true Targ and has dragons to boot. I think Aegon will tend to attract oppurtunists while the true hardcore Targ supporters will go with Dany until/unless she confirms his claim. This will be the basis for their fued and a lot of people will become disaffected by this squabbling and actually end up going with Stannis.

I've also kind of come to the beleif that these 20,000 mercenaries might be a bit of a red herring. I think Stannis will hire some mercenaries but I think he can come up with some better ways to exploit the loans the Iron Bank is willing to give him. I think he will try and bribe the Golden Company into betraying Aegon. Not sure if it will work but its worth a shot, I guess it wil depend on how Aegon is faring at the point in time that Stannis makes his offer to them. This Strickland guy seems like he would at least listen to the offer and not dismiss it out of hand.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I also think that Dany will want to beleive that he is the real deal. People tend to overlook the vision she had in the HOTU about Rhaegar talking to Elia about naming him. The fact that her brothers freind(JonC) is involved would seem to be good but Illryios and Varys connection to him might give her some pause. She probaly will not be near Westeros til the end of next book so I do not see anything developing immeadeatly. Still people will doubt Aegons claim but be willing to declare for Dany who they know is a true Targ and has dragons to boot. I think Aegon will tend to attract oppurtunists while the true hardcore Targ supporters will go with Dany until/unless she confirms his claim. This will be the basis for their fued and a lot of people will become disaffected by this squabbling and actually end up going with Stannis.

I've also kind of come to the beleif that these 20,000 mercenaries might be a bit of a red herring. I think Stannis will hire some mercenaries but I think he can come up with some better ways to exploit the loans the Iron Bank is willing to give him. I think he will try and bribe the Golden Company into betraying Aegon. Not sure if it will work but its worth a shot, I guess it wil depend on how Aegon is faring at the point in time that Stannis makes his offer to them. This Strickland guy seems like he would at least listen to the offer and not dismiss it out of hand.

The Golden Company have rolled the dice with Aegon. They are in it now for more than gold. They want to put a dragon on the throne and get back their lost lands and castles, or be granted new ones. Most of the Westerosi in the Company were simply tired of Essos and ready to come home no matter what result.

[dunkman]

I think this concern may also be underestimating the influence of the Braavosi Bank. I am quite confident they have sufficient influence to get guys out of contracts and deliver to Stannis what he needs.