[Book Spoilers] Anybody else surprised...

[Cas Stark]

Don't forget that the tv only viewers are still under the impression that the Iron islanders are the ones who killed everyone and burned down Winterfell. They do not know that it was the Boltons, so when this is revealed it will be a shock.

Is that because they didn't pay attention to Osha when she said "no, look, here are dead Ironborn all over the place, too and there is Theon's dead horse" when they left Winterfell?

[victim]

I like the idea of Roose walking in to the torture chamber and telling Ramsey to cut Theon down, but that would require the time travel machine to get him there so quickly.

Roose can just borrow Littlefinger's one. I like this idea too though. The first rule is show don't tell.

[Kyoti]

I think a lot of people are viewing this the wrong way. When you look back at any great movie or show with a great twist all of the clues were there plain as day, but as an unsullied viewer you are focused on different things, it's only after we know the big reveal that we pick up on all of the "obvious" clues. As book readers we get very wrapped up in who Roose is because he is way more important in the books than he is in the show, but that is the big reveal. His storyline up until the RW is pretty irrelevant to the story as a whole, but show Roose is being set up to be the huge villain you never saw coming but should have.

Right now he is creepy but forgettable, whereas Ramsey is a sadistic bastard but unless you are really paying attention and remember one line from an intentionally forgettable character from almost a year ago then you have very little idea who he might be. At this point if I were writing the show I would have Theon's finger skin show up as the very first scene of episode 9 with a lovely Bolton pink wax seal on it. In that one scene you will instantly connect the dots for even the slowest viewer and it will painfully illustrate how Robb is walking into a trap making the episode that much more impactful. You have to understand that this show has to stand alone for people who will never read the books and there is nothing like having the villains strike a devastating blow to the heroes in the middle of a series.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Absolutely NONE of the non-book reading fans I know know who "Boy" is. Most people are not diehard fans of this show like we are. The "I'll send my bastard" line from season two was very much an aside. There was deliberately no emphasis on it. It is EASILY forgettable. If someone was intrepid enough to rewatch Season Two to pick up clues, then they would get it but most casual tv fans do not know wtf is going on with Theon's story, much to D&D's design.

[AndrewStark]

I think that they are doing a great job ,because bolton and ramsay are goign to be the most hated characters When jofrey and tywin die... Just a tough

[yushkevsh]

I thought we would too, maybe they're saving it for a season finale, so they can reveal it and cause all of the non-book people to scratch their heads and say "who is bruce bolton?"

its the dumbest "mystery" ever. Roose already said to Robb last season that he was sending his bastard to retake winterfell from Theon. Then, people showed up and retook winterfell from Theon. Anyone who was paying attention should already know who it is, and anyone who wasn't probably doesn't even remember who Roose Bolton is anyhow, and therefore will not give a crap when Boy is revealed.

Exactly this.

[Envie]

I'm still agreeing with everyone who says to non-book readers it's definitely NOT obvious from the given clues that Ramsay is Roose Bolton's son or even the significance of that. I did some reading of the 'unsullied' remarks and the speculations are running wild all over the place, even that he's some sort of secret Stark bastard like Jon Snow haha.

Try to remember that as a book reader, you were given pages upon pages of very detailed descriptions of what Ramsay looked like, how he talked to others (even his Father) and all of the sadistic games he enjoyed playing long before "reek" showed up on the scene later in the book and you realized all the things Ramsay had done to him. Television only folks have had none of that. They were led to believe "boy" was some obviously planted house servant who is working for someone else and is torturing Theon for some reason they don't yet know. Everyone hated Theon, but now they're feeling really sorry for him and that's EXACTLY what book readers felt after awhile but in a different way. I think the television writers have come up with a suitable way to display the tragedy of Theon's story arc. Sure, most of us feel we're being bashed over the head by the repetitive torturing, but most of us already came to the conclusion by the end of the last book that while yes Theon was a douchebag and did some really traitorous things, his paybacks and the fact that he had huge regrets and remorse for what he did makes his story one of the saddest in the entire series. Now the show viewers are coming to that realization too. It hammers home the fact that there are no truly evil vs. good characters in this story.

[Kyoti]

I'm still agreeing with everyone who says to non-book readers it's definitely NOT obvious from the given clues that Ramsay is Roose Bolton's son or even the significance of that. I did some reading of the 'unsullied' remarks and the speculations are running wild all over the place, even that he's some sort of secret Stark bastard like Jon Snow haha.

Try to remember that as a book reader, you were given pages upon pages of very detailed descriptions of what Ramsay looked like, how he talked to others (even his Father) and all of the sadistic games he enjoyed playing long before "reek" showed up on the scene later in the book and you realized all the things Ramsay had done to him. Television only folks have had none of that. They were led to believe "boy" was some obviously planted house servant who is working for someone else and is torturing Theon for some reason they don't yet know. Everyone hated Theon, but now they're feeling really sorry for him and that's EXACTLY what book readers felt after awhile but in a different way. I think the television writers have come up with a suitable way to display the tragedy of Theon's story arc. Sure, most of us feel we're being bashed over the head by the repetitive torturing, but most of us already came to the conclusion by the end of the last book that while yes Theon was a douchebag and did some really traitorous things, his paybacks and the fact that he had huge regrets and remorse for what he did makes his story one of the saddest in the entire series. Now the show viewers are coming to that realization too. It hammers home the fact that there are no truly evil vs. good characters in this story.

I read something else that had nothing to do with this topic at all, but from the perspective of the Red Wedding how jarring would it be for a TV audience to see an entire wedding party slaughtered, a mother rip her face to shreds, and pet dire wolf killed only to have his head sewn and crowned on a dead king's body with zero hint of the brutality going on in this country? Imagine how awful that scene would be without seeing Theon tortured episode after episode. Along with everything Envie said I think this is a major secondary reason to show so much of Theon's conversion to Reek.

[Envie]

I read something else that had nothing to do with this topic at all, but from the perspective of the Red Wedding how jarring would it be for a TV audience to see an entire wedding party slaughtered, a mother rip her face to shreds, and pet dire wolf killed only to have his head sewn and crowned on a dead king's body with zero hint of the brutality going on in this country? Imagine how awful that scene would be without seeing Theon tortured episode after episode. Along with everything Envie said I think this is a major secondary reason to show so much of Theon's conversion to Reek.

Well yes, if they were looking for good 'warm-up' material for the horrifying events to come, then seeing Ros shot full of arrows and Theon tortured relentlessly are definitely good ways to get the audience sympathetic and desensitized a bit depending on how gory they intend to go with the RW scene. Personally I don't think they're going to show Robb beheaded and that's likely another reason they've left his dire wolf out of most of the scenes / episodes lately. I don't know why I think that, but I just have a feeling it may not be done as gruesomely as in the book.

[Kyoti]

Well yes, if they were looking for good 'warm-up' material for the horrifying events to come, then seeing Ros shot full of arrows and Theon tortured relentlessly are definitely good ways to get the audience sympathetic and desensitized a bit depending on how gory they intend to go with the RW scene. Personally I don't think they're going to show Robb beheaded and that's likely another reason they've left his dire wolf out of most of the scenes / episodes lately. I don't know why I think that, but I just have a feeling it may not be done as gruesomely as in the book.

If they fail to show Robwind then I will be disappointed. There is nothing that displays just how disgusting the Freys are then how they treat the bodies of the dead.

[wolverine]

Is that because they didn't pay attention to Osha when she said "no, look, here are dead Ironborn all over the place, too and there is Theon's dead horse" when they left Winterfell?

That was quite a while ago and I don't remember it from the show at all.

[Asshai by the Shadow]

They don't need to be shown in every episode. What was the point of "Ros"? No point, all that BS about a commoner's perspective in KL, was just that, BS. She was there to take her clothes off and she got a LOT of screen time. Why not trim some of Dinklage's scenes to give an extra minute here or there to Roose Bolton and other not Stark and not Lannisters. How many Tyrion/Shae scenes do we need? Wouldn't that time have been better spent on Robb's story? Or a little more Stannis this season so people didn't forget who he was? That entire Pod and the whores was an insane waste of time and completely extraneous to anything. Give all that time to Roose Bolton and maybe people would remember who he was before he kills Robb Stark. And why bother giving Bran's story any screen time at all if going to be crap about Meera and Osha spatting like teenage girls in the high school hallway? Or, cut some time off Theon's segements this year and give it Robb or Stannis or Arya.

:agree:

[Joyful Union]

They don't need to be shown in every episode. What was the point of "Ros"? No point, all that BS about a commoner's perspective in KL, was just that, BS. She was there to take her clothes off and she got a LOT of screen time. Why not trim some of Dinklage's scenes to give an extra minute here or there to Roose Bolton and other not Stark and not Lannisters. How many Tyrion/Shae scenes do we need? Wouldn't that time have been better spent on Robb's story? Or a little more Stannis this season so people didn't forget who he was? That entire Pod and the whores was an insane waste of time and completely extraneous to anything. Give all that time to Roose Bolton and maybe people would remember who he was before he kills Robb Stark. And why bother giving Bran's story any screen time at all if going to be crap about Meera and Osha spatting like teenage girls in the high school hallway? Or, cut some time off Theon's segements this year and give it Robb or Stannis or Arya.

Look, we get it, you really dont like how the show has been this season, and you dont like the changes made. That does not make alternative points of view "BS".

[Asshai by the Shadow]

I'm so curious HOW they will reveal boy's identity. I really liked the mystery and where this story was going up until last week's failure of a scene. The idea of it was good but poor execution.

Anyways, that being said, I thought at first maybe in episode 9 before the wedding, Roose will show Robb theon's skin and say it's from my son Ramsay. Which would be a good reveal BUT Roose said that by the time his son got there the Ironborn got away. So Robb would be like wait a minute.... which makes no sense for this scene like it did in the book where Roose was honest about his son having Theon.

I personally really hope they do not mix the RW with a Ramsay voice-over or reveal that would be terrible. That scene is so grand on its own it needs to be done by the book IMO.

The reveal will hopefully be in episode 10 but all I can imagine is him being like mwhahahah I am Ramsay Bolton mwhahah. And people will be like mmm cool... lol jk but with so many of the criticisms this storyline has gotten I really hope they do a really amazing reveal so it pays off. I'm sure it will fingers crossed

[Cas Stark]

Look, we get it, you really dont like how the show has been this season, and you dont like the changes made. That does not make alternative points of view "BS".

Ros did not offer any kind of unique commoner perspective or unique insight into LF. Since they have LF and Varys constantly blabbing to each other about their plans, her in the brothel served no purpose except to be a hot babe. There was absolutely nothing done with her character that was in any way special or different that provided any insight into the story that didn't already exist. She took her clothes off a lot and got abused a lot. Neat. Because there really wasn't enough nudity or violence without adding her character.

[Kyoti]

Ros did not offer any kind of unique commoner perspective or unique insight into LF. Since they have LF and Varys constantly blabbing to each other about their plans, her in the brothel served no purpose except to be a hot babe. There was absolutely nothing done with her character that was in any way special or different that provided any insight into the story that didn't already exist. She took her clothes off a lot and got abused a lot. Neat. Because there really wasn't enough nudity or violence without adding her character.

I think she served as a great insight into the depth of Joff's cruelty, how big of a blind-spot Littlefinger has for Sansa, how weak Varys' spy network could be, how clever Tyrion can be when forced to be on the spot, and how someone can go from Wintertown whore to Major Domo for the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands in just a year or two of smart moves. But you know, she showed her boobs, so useless character.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I think a lot of people are viewing this the wrong way. When you look back at any great movie or show with a great twist all of the clues were there plain as day, but as an unsullied viewer you are focused on different things, it's only after we know the big reveal that we pick up on all of the "obvious" clues. As book readers we get very wrapped up in who Roose is because he is way more important in the books than he is in the show, but that is the big reveal. His storyline up until the RW is pretty irrelevant to the story as a whole, but show Roose is being set up to be the huge villain you never saw coming but should have.

Right now he is creepy but forgettable, whereas Ramsey is a sadistic bastard but unless you are really paying attention and remember one line from an intentionally forgettable character from almost a year ago then you have very little idea who he might be. At this point if I were writing the show I would have Theon's finger skin show up as the very first scene of episode 9 with a lovely Bolton pink wax seal on it. In that one scene you will instantly connect the dots for even the slowest viewer and it will painfully illustrate how Robb is walking into a trap making the episode that much more impactful. You have to understand that this show has to stand alone for people who will never read the books and there is nothing like having the villains strike a devastating blow to the heroes in the middle of a series.

I agree with this. I think it's different for us book readers actually knowing. However, the way they are setting it up is almost like the first time I read the books. I barely paid attention to Roose Bolton or "Reek" as characters other than thinking Bolton was a little odd and figuring that Arya didn't reveal herself to him based on his weirdness and her instincts, but I did not follow on through my thoughts. I pretty much ignored Reek. It wasn't until after everything happened and all was revealed that I was like "Oh snap! I didn't see that coming!" I think they are trying to create that same feeling for Unsullied viewers. I do know that my unsullied family are somewhat unsure of Roose, him sending Jaime to Kings Landing was a tip-off that something is not quite right with him, but they haven't connected the dots yet. I didn't connect those dots on my first time reading at this point either. I think it's cool how they will have to go back and re-watch and have "Oooh!" kind of moment.

[Angmar]

It's confusing, but it goes in line with the books. At first I was very puzzled about Ramsay's story and the first Reek in ACOK. Here it works the same I think.

[Gendels Children]

the reveal will most likely be after the RW maybe the next episode or maybe the same episode, the soonest I would expect it would be just before RW in the same episode so the viewer can be kinda like "oh shit whats gonna happen here" since in the books the wedding was all pretty dodgy from the beginning, but in not sure how they will portray that in the show

[Gendels Children]

I agree with this. I think it's different for us book readers actually knowing. However, the way they are setting it up is almost like the first time I read the books. I barely paid attention to Roose Bolton or "Reek" as characters other than thinking Bolton was a little odd and figuring that Arya didn't reveal herself to him based on his weirdness and her instincts, but I did not follow on through my thoughts. I pretty much ignored Reek. It wasn't until after everything happened and all was revealed that I was like "Oh snap! I didn't see that coming!" I think they are trying to create that same feeling for Unsullied viewers. I do know that my unsullied family are somewhat unsure of Roose, him sending Jaime to Kings Landing was a tip-off that something is not quite right with him, but they haven't connected the dots yet. I didn't connect those dots on my first time reading at this point either. I think it's cool how they will have to go back and re-watch and have "Oooh!" kind of moment.

wow yeah I have to agree that pretty much sums up how things worked when I first read about it too, it was great! I loved not being able to see what was going to happen, and the viewers should be able to get that experience too :D