[BOOK SPOILERS] Season 5 episode 9 event?

[joachim]

Not one of us knows what will happen in the next two books, so how can we possibly know that Quentyn's death won't have consequences?

[~No One~]

I know I'm in the minority, but I really like this being Jon's cliffhanger. Whether in S5E09 or S5E10, it should be the last thing we see at the Wall. If we book readers had to wait potentially 4 years to know if Jon lives or is dead, I think the show-onlys can bear 9 months.

I agree! We should all share in the torture of waiting to find out...

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

I knew this would be your response. You could have any character do anything to justify cutting a character you don't like. A random Frey extra could have killed Robb, boom, now you don't need to cast Roose Bolton. An extra could have killed Yoren, now you don't need to cast Amory Lorch. OR you could flesh out your characters to add verisimilitude to your world and create drama. Having un-named extras commit acts that have serious consequences is not good story telling. Quentyn is the only character in Dany's story with the movitvation and reasoning to release the dragons, you could have somebody random release the dragons but why? It's not as satisfying as having an established character doing something that affects the story, and getting killed in the process. That's good drama. Sure the show runners could change everything around, but none of the scenarios posted here make for better story telling.

He wasn't trying to release them, he was trying to steal them.

Amory Lorch was in 4 episodes in Season 2. He announced who he was before killing Yoren, then Tywin Lannister called him out by name in a war meeting where he punked him for not being able to read. Lorch found Arya with a stolen letter and chased after her before going to Tywin where he died from a poisoned dart. He was one of the names Arya gave Jaqen, so kind of an important part of her storyline. They could have cut him, but like I said, fleshing out minor characters, even just a little, adds a lot of depth to the world of Game of Thrones. They might have another "important" character release the dragons, but having some random extra do something so consequential is not good story telling.

Quentyn doesn't need much time, he only has like 4 chapters in ADWD, yet I thought he had one of the most memorable story lines in that book. Like I mentioned earlier, between season 3 and 4 we're losing 4 major characters that will leave a lot of extra time to introduce new characters. I have faith in the producers to make it work, but it's interesting to see so many people dismiss Quentyn as an expendable character.

I'd rather have seen Armory Lorch get torn to bits by the bear. Would've made Brienne's fight all more scarier.

Quentyn has four chapters in DwDs and Bran has three chapters. Did we really need to see his difficult journey to Mareen at the same time that we were seeing Tyrion's difficult journey to Mareen and Victorian's difficult journey to Mareen.

Television wise there's no reason to show all of those people having a difficult time getting to Mareen. The journey Quentyn makes is not the important thing. It's the end result.

I know I'm in the minority, but I really like this being Jon's cliffhanger. Whether in S5E09 or S5E10, it should be the last thing we see at the Wall. If we book readers had to wait potentially 4 years to know if Jon lives or is dead, I think the show-onlys can bear 9 months.

This same logic was the reason book readers wanted the Arya cliff-hanger at the end of the RW. LOL

Show only viewers wouldn't tolerate a Imp, Khaleesi, or Jon Snow season ending cliff hanger.

and

Jon Snow is alive, go re-read DWDs and come back with all the hints that he's alive.

Not one of us knows what will happen in the next two books, so how can we possibly know that Quentyn's death won't have consequences?

No one is arguing that his death is inconsequential, everyone is saying that showing his journey is pointless.

I agree! We should all share in the torture of waiting to find out...

To find out what that Davos is alive ( 2 fake deaths)? That Dany is alive? That Arya is alive? Bran is alive? That Tyrion is alive? That Stannis is alive? That Theon is alive?

I'll keep going.... but do you get the point?

Jon Snow, how can I put this, Jon Snow is

not dead

[Ser Tahu]

and

Jon Snow is alive, go re-read DWDs and come back with all the hints that he's alive.

Jon Snow, how can I put this, Jon Snow is

not dead

Actually all signs point to Jon being dead, but that he will be revived (most likely by Melisandre). Unless I'm much mistaken, GRRM himself once said that the various characters revivals are all leading up to a big revival (Jon).

But overall I don't think that a Jon assassination ending to a season would be bad, I just think that it will be the S6 ending, not the S5 ending :P.

[Razha]

In Theory they could cut virtually anybody - especially likes of Rikon, Myrcella, Bronn, Podric, Kevan, Blackfish (does he really contribute more to the North story than Quentyn does to the Essos?) - but why should they? Many characters could be cut or reduced to unnamed or named extras - this would streamline the story, but it would make it poorer as well.

There are some people who simply did not enjoy certain sections of the book and therefore feel that that is the part and those are the characters that can be easily removed (somehow this especially concerns the characters from AFFC/ADWD - - they have of course full right to think so, but I for one find Quentyn to be one of the most complelling and interesting characters - and fully deserving a season long story arc, even the expanded one.

Also, let's not forget all those fears - that have been expressed by many, even on this forum - that the show is catching up with GRRM. Keeping Characters like Quentyn could help to avoid that.

[Razha]

As to Jon, I think a lot will depend on the contents of TWOW

Jon's caesar moment seems a perfect season ending cliffhanger to me - unlike Robbs death that was obvious and definitive and therefore we could easily have the "aftermath" of it in the episode 10, Jons scene is not that definitive - we don't know weather he is dead or alive, or how could survive or be revived and that could be a perfect mistery to be kept till season 6. If Jon's assasination attempt happens in ep 9, they will need to show at least some kind of aftermath in ep 10 - and that would diminish impact in my opinion.

[DaveyJoe]

He wasn't trying to release them, he was trying to steal them.

He was trying to tame one, which led to their release.

I'd rather have seen Armory Lorch get torn to bits by the bear. Would've made Brienne's fight all more scarier.

Quentyn has four chapters in DwDs and Bran has three chapters. Did we really need to see his difficult journey to Mareen at the same time that we were seeing Tyrion's difficult journey to Mareen and Victorian's difficult journey to Mareen.

Television wise there's no reason to show all of those people having a difficult time getting to Mareen. The journey Quentyn makes is not the important thing. It's the end result.

I'd rather have seen The Tickler get stabbed by Arya at the Inn.

Do we really need to see anybody's journey? The majority of the book is travelling and politics. The end result? Story telling is about the journey, not the destination. Quentyn's death has no dramatic impact if we're not invested in his plight, that's why the journey is necessary. Personally I thought Quentyn's chapters were a lot more interesting than Tyrion's in ADWD.

[Aegon Spengler]

This whole Quentyn thing has kinda taken over this thread, but back to the op, if its true that they won't do the battles of Winterfell and Mereen in the same season, which one comes first? I, for one, think its totally plausible to have them happen in the same season, since the Winterfell battle might not need to be so epic, and they already have all the sets built for it.

[Vengeance]

The battle isn't at Winterfell though, it's set to take place three days north of it where Stannis has camped by the frozen lake - I suspect they'll defeat the Freys and the Manderleys will help them capture Winterfell through trickery.

[Aegon Spengler]

Ah, true. Maybe I'm just hoping we don't see stuff from book 6 as early as season 5 but I still could see that being portrayed in a less epic (expensive) way than Blackwater, or how this season's battle at the Wall and the eventual Mereen showdown will need to be. So I'm hoping: end of season 5=Daznak's Pit, dragons escape, Jon sends Mance to rescue "Arya". Early season 6, battle of Mereen, late season 6, Roose vs Ramsay, pink letter, and Dany sets off for Westeros.

[oierem]

Ah, true. Maybe I'm just hoping we don't see stuff from book 6 as early as season 5 but I still could see that being portrayed in a less epic (expensive) way than Blackwater, or how this season's battle at the Wall and the eventual Mereen showdown will need to be. So I'm hoping: end of season 5=Daznak's Pit, dragons escape, Jon sends Mance to rescue "Arya". Early season 6, battle of Mereen, late season 6, Roose vs Ramsay, pink letter, and Dany sets off for Westeros.

while for two seasons, Bran just stays in a cave, Sansa has random scenes with Littlefinger, and Arya trains in Braavos.

[Vengeance]

I don't think Daznak's pit is all that big and epic a scene, and I think because of the timescale issues with the other plot threads it'll need to be mid season, with the Battle of Meereen as the big season ender moment. Then the Battle of Ice can feature early season 6, as you say it shouldn't be that demanding - maybe just even show the aftermath. That gives seasons 6-8 to cover two massive and presumably action packed books.

[Aegon Spengler]

while for two seasons, Bran just stays in a cave, Sansa has random scenes with Littlefinger, and Arya trains in Braavos.

I think some characters are going to have to get into WoW stuff by season 6 for sure.

[Aegon Spengler]

It would be interesting to change up the formula, too. There are a ton of cliffhangers in the 4th and 5th books. Instead of having a huge epic moment in episode 9, what if everyone is basically left hanging (sometimes literally) at the end of episode 10? Is Davos dead? Brienne? Jon? Where the hell did Dany go? Is Arya blind? Theon? Mance? Then start season 6 with big events right off the bat.

[DaveyJoe]

It would be interesting to change up the formula, too. There are a ton of cliffhangers in the 4th and 5th books. Instead of having a huge epic moment in episode 9, what if everyone is basically left hanging (sometimes literally) at the end of episode 10? Is Davos dead? Brienne? Jon? Where the hell did Dany go? Is Arya blind? Theon? Mance? Then start season 6 with big events right off the bat.

I wouldn't mind this approach. I remember back in the 90s I loved the X-Files, and it always had an amazing cliffhanger to end the season. All summer long everybody would talk about it and speculate and the anticipation for the season premiere would reach pretty epic proportions. I think it'd be cool to see GoT do this with all of the cliffhangers in AFFC/ADWD.

[Mr Fixit]

X-Files isn't the best example. That show has since become infamous because of all its bull mythology cooked up on the spot.

[DaveyJoe]

X-Files isn't the best example. That show has since become infamous because of all its bull mythology cooked up on the spot.

It's one of the most influential tv shows of all time. Even if the mythology got convoluted later on, that doesn't change the fact that people were shitting their pants when Mulder was in a train that exploded at the end of Season 2.

[oierem]

I think some characters are going to have to get into WoW stuff by season 6 for sure.

Why some and not all? They can twist the cronology a bit, but not too much because otherwise the stories will go out of sync (and hopefully, characters should start slowly reuniting and having and impact on each other's storylines).

If some characters are into WoW stuff by season 6 and others are still in ADWD, what happens in season 7?

[Ser Tahu]

If some characters are into WoW stuff by season 6 and others are still in ADWD, what happens in season 7?

In season 7 everyone is in TWoW. Simple.

[oierem]

In season 7 everyone is in TWoW. Simple.

How, if they've already used Bran, Arya and Sansa's TWOW chapters in season 6? Or do you think that those characters (and other more minor ones) will have substantially more chapters than Jon, Dany or Tyrion?