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Maia

Surprising Lannister ancestor?

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Everyone seems to forget here that Gerion Lannister sailed to Valyria in 291 AC in search for Brightroar, the ancesteral Valyrian steel greatsword of House Lannister. He was never seen again, so maybe we see him back in the upcoming book? Maybe he found Brightroar or something else of importance to the story.

I don't think anyone has forgotten him, but he wouldn't have anything to do with the surprising ancestor..

And Gerions return would not be recorded in a history book, since it hasn't even happend in present asoiaf times (300AC)

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Maybe something to do with who Lann the Clever was. All we know is that he was trickster from the Age of Heroes, right? How would he have won control of an entire kingdom without the loyalty of the populace or an army behind his back?

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Maybe something to do with who Lann the Clever was. All we know is that he was trickster from the Age of Heroes, right? How would he have won control of an entire kingdom without the loyalty of the populace or an army behind his back?

Have you see the notes from the reading on the History of the Westerlands? Lann's origins are discussed and no clear answer given, so it can't be him. It's almost certainly Webber.

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Maybe they're tied to House Velaryon.



It would make sense why Cersei and Jamie have had their thing going on forever, they named their kid Joffery, and why she's attracted to Aurane who looks all Targ-esque and all (which is a characteristic of the Velaryons being from the Freehold and closely having babies with Targs even pre-Doom)


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Maybe they're tied to House Velaryon.

It would make sense why Cersei and Jamie have had their thing going on forever, they named their kid Joffery, and why she's attracted to Aurane who looks all Targ-esque and all (which is a characteristic of the Velaryons being from the Freehold and closely having babies with Targs even pre-Doom)

How would having Velaryon blood explain the relationship between Cersei and Jaime?

The name Joffrey was not a Velaryon name, but a name from the Stormlands, given to Laenor Velaryons youngest son because of the love Laenor had had for the deceased Joffrey.

And having Velaryon blood also wouldn't explain attraction to a Targaryen-looking Velaryon..

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I thought Joffrey is a name from Vale?

Joffrey Velaryon was named for Joffrey Lonmouth, a knight from the Stormlands.

In asoiaf, we also see Joffrey Caswell, from the Reach.

I don't recall any Joffrey's from the Vale.. Though there might be a few there, as well.

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I have always thought Robert named Joffrey to honour Jon Arryn, in the same vein Ned did with Jon - and of course, I remembered Rhaenyra's mother is from Vale, as well.

The dead lover of Laenor completely escaped my mind. :)

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Sorry folks, I read the first few pages and the last but I skipped the 300 pages in the middle.



Heres my list of ramblings.



I see a lot of thoughts on the Castameres. But why?



Lannisters of Casterly Rock took over from the Casterlys.


Reynes of Castamere to over from the Castameres?



The Red Lions, Almost exactly reversed colours as the Lannisters Coat. Maybe they seperated at some point. Maybe when the Targs took over or before.



A coat of Gold or a coat of Red a lion still has claws.


Red or Black a dragon is still a dragon. Targaryen blood lines.



Targ - Red Dragon on Black.


Blackfyre - Black Dragon on Red.



more Bastardry


BR has a White Dragon on Black and Red.



Jon Snow has a White Wolf on Black


Stark has a Grey Wolf on White.



Its all about the coat of arms.



Also


And then Brightroar (Gold) and Bloodrain (Red)


And then Darksister (Red) and Blackfyre (Black)



Wild guess the Lannisters are bastards or spawned from the Raynes. Lann "The Clever" Rayne. Or the otherwayround. Or not.

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How would having Velaryon blood explain the relationship between Cersei and Jaime?

The name Joffrey was not a Velaryon name, but a name from the Stormlands, given to Laenor Velaryons youngest son because of the love Laenor had had for the deceased Joffrey.

And having Velaryon blood also wouldn't explain attraction to a Targaryen-looking Velaryon..

Yeah it doesn't hold much water haha

Well I was saying Jaime-Cersei would be like that because Aegon the Conquerer wed and bed his 2 sisters all who were half Velaryon.

Also, Joffery Velaryon's mom was Rhaenyra who of course sought power during ciil war (tDwD). It's one of the rare cases (if only I think) female Targs wedding a male Velaryon post conquest. Both Joffery's died at 13/14 and were slapped as kids by their relatives.

Also, aren't Velaryons known for their blue eyes and silver hair as well?

Just interesting parallels but I'm kind of talking out of my ass and having fun with it.

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Yeah it doesn't hold much water haha

Well I was saying Jaime-Cersei would be like that because Aegon the Conquerer wed and bed his 2 sisters all who were half Velaryon.

Also, Joffery Velaryon's mom was Rhaenyra who of course sought power during ciil war (tDwD). It's one of the rare cases (if only I think) female Targs wedding a male Velaryon post conquest. Both Joffery's died at 13/14 and were slapped as kids by their relatives.

Also, aren't Velaryons known for their blue eyes and silver hair as well?

Just interesting parallels but I'm kind of talking out of my ass and having fun with it.

Rhaenyra isn't the only Targaryen woman we know of post-conquest to marry a Velaryon. Rhaenys (the queen that never was) married Corlys Velaryon (and Laenor, Rhaenyra's husband, was their son). Of course, there are also several other Targaryen women who we have no idea who they married, as of now.

As far as what features Velaryons are known for having, well it's pretty much the same as the Targaryens. However, the Velaryons also inter-married with the Targaryens on Dragonstone before the conquest.

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Rhaenyra isn't the only Targaryen woman we know of post-conquest to marry a Velaryon. Rhaenys (the queen that never was) married Corlys Velaryon (and Laenor, Rhaenyra's husband, was their son). Of course, there are also several other Targaryen women who we have no idea who they married, as of now.

As far as what features Velaryons are known for having, well it's pretty much the same as the Targaryens. However, the Velaryons also inter-married with the Targaryens on Dragonstone before the conquest.

And in addition to all that intermarrying, the Velaryons are originally from Valyria, as well ;)

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Yeah it doesn't hold much water haha

Well I was saying Jaime-Cersei would be like that because Aegon the Conquerer wed and bed his 2 sisters all who were half Velaryon.

Also, Joffery Velaryon's mom was Rhaenyra who of course sought power during ciil war (tDwD). It's one of the rare cases (if only I think) female Targs wedding a male Velaryon post conquest. Both Joffery's died at 13/14 and were slapped as kids by their relatives.

Also, aren't Velaryons known for their blue eyes and silver hair as well?

Just interesting parallels but I'm kind of talking out of my ass and having fun with it.

I doubt female Targaryens wedding male Velaryons is rare after the conquest. There are a few examples of such marriages and betrothals that we know of, and IMO likely to be more over the first 150 years after the conquest, possibly even up to the times of Egg and his sons (where there is currently the biggest gap in knowledge of wives of kings and their children).

* Rhaenys Targaryen (daughter of Prince Aemon and Jocelyn Baratheon) and Corlys Velaryon

* Rhaenyra Targaryen (daughter of Viserys I and Aemma Arryn) and Laenor Velaryon (son of Corlys and Rhaenys Targaryen)

* Rhaena Targaryen (daughter of Prince Daemon and Laena Velaryon) and Lucerys Velaryon (son of Laenor and Rhaenyra Targaryen)

I may be missing some. And IIRC there was a statement in one of the last two short stories that indicated Corlys may have had a Targaryen mother.

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I doubt female Targaryens wedding male Velaryons is rare after the conquest. There are a few examples of such marriages and betrothals that we know of, and IMO likely to be more over the first 150 years after the conquest, possibly even up to the times of Egg and his sons (where there is currently the biggest gap in knowledge of wives of kings and their children).

* Rhaenys Targaryen (daughter of Prince Aemon and Jocelyn Baratheon) and Corlys Velaryon

* Rhaenyra Targaryen (daughter of Viserys I and Aemma Arryn) and Laenor Velaryon (son of Corlys and Rhaenys Targaryen)

* Rhaena Targaryen (daughter of Prince Daemon and Laena Velaryon) and Lucerys Velaryon (son of Laenor and Rhaenyra Targaryen)

I may be missing some. And IIRC there was a statement in one of the last two short stories that indicated Corlys may have had a Targaryen mother.

Baela Targaryen and Jacaerys Velaryon

Corlys had a Targaryen ancestor (so mother or grandmother, most likely). Valaena Velaryon (mother of Aegon I) had a Targaryen mother herself.

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Is it confirmed that Baela and Jacaerys were betrothed? I didn't recall any mention of who Jacaerys was betrothed to, though it seemed impossible that Lucerys was betrothed and Jacaerys wasn't, and Baela makes sense.


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Baela Targaryen and Jacaerys Velaryon

Corlys had a Targaryen ancestor (so mother or grandmother, most likely). Valaena Velaryon (mother of Aegon I) had a Targaryen mother herself.

Along the same lines as Valaena, Alyssa Velaryon was, I believe, referred to as a cousin of her husband Aenys I. Presumably not a first cousin (unless Aegon I had other siblings we don't know about), but could very well be descended from a sibling of Valaena's or a sibling of Aerion's which would indicate recent Targaryen ancestry

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Is it confirmed that Baela and Jacaerys were betrothed? I didn't recall any mention of who Jacaerys was betrothed to, though it seemed impossible that Lucerys was betrothed and Jacaerys wasn't, and Baela makes sense.

Yeah, in the Rogue Prince is it stated that they were betrothed.

Along the same lines as Valaena, Alyssa Velaryon was, I believe, referred to as a cousin of her husband Aenys I. Presumably not a first cousin (unless Aegon I had other siblings we don't know about), but could very well be descended from a sibling of Valaena's or a sibling of Aerion's which would indicate recent Targaryen ancestry

If Daemon Velaryon was the brother of Valaena, then Alyssa could be his granddaughter. That would then have made them cousins through Valaena and Daemon. Though another Targaryen-Velaryon marriage is, of course, also likely, depending on how many distant Targaryen cousins there still were around the time of the Conquest..

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