Manderlay Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 The Red Dragons, because of Baelor Breakpear, I would pick him over Daemon Blackfyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I believe there was an SSM somewhere which kind of explained Daeron's actions as trying to eliminate his most dangerous competitor from the game without having to kill Daemon. I could be wrong. Yeah, Daeron had some very effective guys in his inner circle, but he was still an efficient king. Bringing Dorne into the kingdom wasn't a bad thing by any means, and they had no real part in sparking the conflict.I would argue Dorne did. The Dornish still have very "foreign" customs and many people were not happy at having them at court.Daemon is a Targaryen, despite his different surname and reversed sigil. I suppose that would also make his descendants Targs to an extent(they are included in the family tree). After all, they justified their claim through Targaryen succession. Daemon had some redeeming qualities but he should've never allowed himself to fall under peer presure from his half brother, friends, and second tier lords. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, then I'd support him for small time period, only to see the Lannisters and Tyrells fall in power though. If he clashes against Dany, then I really wouldn't care who would come out the victor. Dany is the most likely victor of the upcoming Dance anyway.The whispers about Daemon being the heir started as soon as he received the sword. It is not like he was convinced to rebel without a reasonable claim. For 12 years people had been whispering to him that he was the rightful heir. I think taking away Daenery's was the final straw and trying to arrest him was the final straw. All the arguments come back to the sword. Daemon II is completely left alone, when he does not have the sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 TargaryenForgive me the word, but the Blackfyres are retarded. Daemon believed that being a better warrior and holding a precious piece of metal makes him a better king than his brother. King is a ruler, not a warrior, a wise king, which the rightful one was, is what the realm needs, not some swordsman. And the other Blacfyres are even worse - they believed they have right to be king because their ancestor was a better warrior than his brother and received some sword. Can there be a more absurd claim? The Blackfyres and their friend Bittersteel are the most absurd claimants to ever appear.Sorry if I offended some Blackfyre fan, but this is how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Red. don't want to be on bloodraven's hit list!Smart man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkae Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 King should look the part. Nobody wants to be ruled by some bookish nerd.Targaryens are nothing but usurpers and impostors. I spit on the the red dragon and curse Brynden Rivers to seven hells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 King should look the part. Nobody wants to be ruled by some bookish nerd.Why? With this logic, we should build planes out of gold and diamons, not some stupid alloy of common metals. Such a plane would be wonderful to look at, sure, and people form entire world would come to see it... yet that thing would never take off, not without rocket engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Why? With this logic, we should build planes out of gold and diamons, not some stupid alloy of common metals. Such a plane would be wonderful to look at, sure, and people form entire world would come to see it... yet that thing would never take off, not without rocket engineIt is not the most important factor, but looking the part is important. The king is the symbol of the country and all his people. When he goes forward he represents the realm. It maybe shallow, but it is a one of the qualities a king needs.TargaryenForgive me the word, but the Blackfyres are retarded. Daemon believed that being a better warrior and holding a precious piece of metal makes him a better king than his brother. King is a ruler, not a warrior, a wise king, which the rightful one was, is what the realm needs, not some swordsman. And the other Blacfyres are even worse - they believed they have right to be king because their ancestor was a better warrior than his brother and received some sword. Can there be a more absurd claim? The Blackfyres and their friend Bittersteel are the most absurd claimants to ever appear.Sorry if I offended some Blackfyre fan, but this is how I see it.Daemon was more than just a warrior. Whether he would be a good king or not is another thing, but he was as honourable as you are going to get. I don't think there has been any leader to inspire as much love as Daemon did. Even Daemon II, whilst stupid and weak was a very moral man too.The sword was not just any sword. This was the sword that every Targaryn king had worn for near 200 years. As soon as Daemon received the sword, the whispers began. Daemon himself was a descendant of a senior branch of the royal family, through his mother Daena. Personally I would only reject Daemon's claim, because it would have serious repercussions on the stability of the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It is not the most important factor, but looking the part is important. The king is the symbol of the country and all his people. When he goes forward he represents the realm. It maybe shallow, but it is a one of the qualities a king needs.King is meant to rule. If he can just look good and smile and wave and leaves all the formal stuff to council, or worse, does not get it done, he is a bad king. he is nothing more than a pretty face good for nothing. King should rule and make the kingdom prosper and let haters hate, not shine more than sun and do nothing.Daemon was more than just a warrior. Whether he would be a good king or not is another thing, but he was as honourable as you are going to get. I don't think there has been any leader to inspire as much love as Daemon did. Even Daemon II, whilst stupid and weak was a very moral man too.Not denying this. Alas, honor is also not everything. Important, sure, but his Daeron was not a dishonorable person either.The sword was not just any sword. This was the sword that every Targaryn king had worn for near 200 years. As soon as Daemon received the sword, the whispers began. Daemon himself was a descendant of a senior branch of the royal family, through his mother Daena. Personally I would only reject Daemon's claim, because it would have serious repercussions on the stability of the realm.Sword will always remain a sword. It has certain symbolism, because people give it one. It will never be anything more than a sharpened piece of valyrian steel. It does not make one a king, no more than holding Longclaw makes Jon lord of Bear island Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 King is meant to rule. If he can just look good and smile and wave and leaves all the formal stuff to council, or worse, does not get it done, he is a bad king. he is nothing more than a pretty face good for nothing. King should rule and make the kingdom prosper and let haters hate, not shine more than sun and do nothing.A king is meant to do more than rule. He is supposed to lead, unite and inspire the people. He is the representative of the country. Of course a king, who just looks good and does nothing is bad, however, looking good in ceremonial occasions is still part of the job. Not the most important, but still a part of it.Not denying this. Alas, honor is also not everything. Important, sure, but his Daeron was not a dishonorable person either.I agree, but Daemon had honour, charisma, loyalty, compassion and leadership. It's interesting that nobody ever disputes he was the better man. The brother Bloodraven says he loved was probably Daemon.As for Daeron the way he treated the Fireball was not very honourable.Sword will always remain a sword. It has certain symbolism, because people give it one. It will never be anything more than a sharpened piece of valyrian steel. It does not make one a king, no more than holding Longclaw makes Jon lord of Bear islandSo what makes someone a king? What makes somebody an heir? When Robb wanted to disinherit Sansa for Jon what would you do? Who would you fight for Jon or Sansa? The sword was seen as a way of appointing the heir to the throne. It's not that the sword was magical, but people saw the sword as Aegon choosing Daemon as his heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 So what makes someone a king? What makes somebody an heir? When Robb wanted to disinherit Sansa for Jon what would you do? Who would you fight for Jon or Sansa? The sword was seen as a way of appointing the heir to the throne. It's not that the sword was magical, but people saw the sword as Aegon choosing Daemon as his heir.Varys explained this quite precisely. Power makes someone a king. And people who obey someone give this someone the power. Why they obey, it's their thing. Love, fear, greed. Obviously, some of them did believe it was the sword, else nobody would fight for the black dragon. But they lost and therefore were proven wrong, for though he did have power, his enemies had more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Varys explained this quite precisely. Power makes someone a king. And people who obey someone give this someone the power. Why they obey, it's their thing. Love, fear, greed. Obviously, some of them did believe it was the sword, else nobody would fight for the black dragon. But they lost and therefore were proven wrong, for though he did have power, his enemies had more.In a war that close in came down to luck. If Daemon had been more ruthless of the Fireball less unlucky things could have turned out differently.Still just to see how tough the question is, what do you if Sansa and Jon go to war over the North. Who do you fight for? The heir by most laws of succession or the heir the king appeared to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozentree Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 In a war that close in came down to luck. If Daemon had been more ruthless of the Fireball less unlucky things could have turned out differently.Still just to see how tough the question is, what do you if Sansa and Jon go to war over the North. Who do you fight for? The heir by most laws of succession or the heir the king appeared to choose.That would be the same person. Unlike daemon, who was younger than his brother, Jon is older than Sansa and a man (not an antifeminist, but this is westeros law). Also, I doubt they would fight. But OK, let's imagine this is Dorne, Sansa is older and they hate each other. I would go for Jon, because Sansa knows nothing about rule. She has been manipulated her whole life (and still is), while Jon made an able Lord Commander. If you want to take it to the extreme and give them equal leadership skills/experience, I would go for Sansa, since there is no reason to mess things up when it is of no importance to anyone but the pretenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalalOfDorne Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Dagoghlor Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Were I a knight or lord living in Westeros at that time, I'd have supported Daemon Blackfyre. The strong, charismatic leader who fights beside his men will always win my favor over the weak, scholarly leader who sends others to do his fighting for him. Although Baelor Breakspear would have been a great king, I'd still worry about the succession if something happened to him (which it did) and one of his younger brothers came to the throne. Aerys was noted for being sickly and frail and Rhaegel was mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Targaryens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Walrus Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Targaryens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Summer Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 All hail the Blackfyres! They are all really Targs anyway. A dragon by any other color is still a batshit crazy dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylin Stark Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 When we're comparing bloodlines and families, I'm with the Targs too.But when it comes to the current claimants to the throne, I like Aegon VI more than Dany (at the moment), whether or not he's Black or Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrojenReed Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Targs. They're the OGs.Edit: And also because I'm in love with Emilia Clarke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winters Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm surprised at how many people chose the Blackfyres. Compared to how many chose the Targs it's not a lot, but I was expecting less people to choose Blackfyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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