So, is this racist?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Of course it's not racist, white people are the target. Everyone knows only white people can be racist....

As much of an overstatement as that may seem, there are a fair number of folks who will openly make that exact argument.

but if you're white and you get something from Norse mythology inked on you, you'll get asked if your a nazi/racist every time you show it.

Well, that's unfortunate. It is entirely possible to be proud of your heritage or think Norse mythology is very cool without being a racist. The whole Norse thing got sort of gunked up by Hitler and his Wagner fetish. Now if you're talking swastikas.....

[Nichole]

Maybe I didn't even bat an eye at a gringo menu since we have a local restaurant that is named Gringos. I guess some might consider that racist.

[Robin Of House Hill]

The whole Norse thing got sort of gunked up by Hitler and his Wagner fetish. Now if you're talking swastikas.....

Well, that's not a good example. Here is why. It's just another thing Hitler stole.

[Sci-2]

Well, that's not a good example. Here is why. It's just another thing Hitler stole.

Yeah, there are a good number of swastikas in Hindu imagery.

I actually have a white friend who visits India regularly and gets a kick out of freaking people by posting such images on his Facebook.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Well, that's not a good example. Here is why. It's just another thing Hitler stole.

Norse mythology is literature, and placing an entire body of literature off limits just because of the identify of one of its fans is wrong. Same with Wagner's music.

But a symbol? What's the loss in not using that if it has come to be identified in western culture -- as in flags and everything -- with a horribly murderous, racist regime? What have you lost?

If you're Hindu, fine. But Urine Greyjoy said he was a white guy, not Indian.

[Sonic The Hedgehog]

Maybe I didn't even bat an eye at a gringo menu since we have a local restaurant that is named Gringos. I guess some might consider that racist.

I actually met a girl who was totally unaware of there being any insults against Asian people because her only contact with the word was from Chink's Steaks. That was a funny conversation.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Norse mythology is literature, and placing an entire body of literature off limits just because of the identify of one of its fans is wrong. Same with Wagner's music.

But a symbol? What's the loss in not using that if it has come to be identified in western culture -- as in flags and everything -- with a horribly murderous, racist regime? What have you lost?

If you're Hindu, fine. But Urine Greyjoy said he was a white guy, not Indian.

Two things wrong with that.

1. A symbol should not be prohibited because people are too ignorant to know it means things unassociated with Nazism.

2. Because someone is white, doesn't rule out his being a Hindu., though if I had to guess, I would guess UG isn't one.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

1. A symbol should not be prohibited because people are too ignorant to know it means things unassociated with Nazism.

I agree that it shouldn't be prohibited. On the other hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable to private parties to draw their own conclusions about the morality of someone who uses a symbol identified so specifically with such a regime. At the very least, it is insensitive to some very serious issues.

[Sci-2]

I agree that it shouldn't be prohibited. On the other hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable to private parties to draw their own conclusions about the morality of someone who uses a symbol identified so specifically with such a regime. At the very least, it is insensitive to some very serious issues.

I'd actually say outside of India it'd be best for Hindus to not use the symbol unless it's a key piece of iconography to any subset of believers.

Most Hindus I know don't think the swastika is all that central to Hinduism.

[ants]

......Actually, it isn't necessarily offensive, and it is a lot easier than saying "Norte Americano". What I'm trying to address is that if one group can coin a term that refers to another, why is the reverse deemed improper?.

When I saw the TV news piece about the restaurant and saw examples of their "gringo menu", my reaction was, why would they think I'd like that better than authentic Mexican food? Do they think my taste buds are incapable of liking Mexican food?.....

But have you proven that? There seems to have been a number of people post in the thread that the word simply means foreigner. Presumably, people from other parts of the world who visited central America would also have the term applied. Given the US is the dominant source of visitors, it might make sense you have thought it applied to you.

I think the comparisons you used were not the reverse, since the equivalent in English would be "foreigner", "tourist" or maybe "immigrant", not words associated with referring to a group derogatorily.

[Robin Of House Hill]

But have you proven that? There seems to have been a number of people post in the thread that the word simply means foreigner. Presumably, people from other parts of the world who visited central America would also have the term applied. Given the US is the dominant source of visitors, it might make sense you have thought it applied to you.

I think the comparisons you used were not the reverse, since the equivalent in English would be "foreigner", "tourist" or maybe "immigrant", not words associated with referring to a group derogatorily.

So, if I open a restaurant and have a "foreigner's menu" that features Mexican food, no one should get offended? But more to the point, inside the US, I'm not a foreigner, so the idea of calling it a "gringo menu" in the US, is fundamentally flawed.

[TheLoneliestMonk]

Thats why I brought up goyem and muggle. One means non jew, the other non magic user. Would a word for non American be racist? Is ther a problem with a group having a term for those that do not share the language(idioms, colloquialism, dialect etc.) experiences history and culture?

[TheLoneliestMonk]

So, if I open a restaurant and have a "foreigner's menu" that features Mexican food, no one should get offended? But more to the point, inside the US, I'm not a foreigner, so the idea of calling it a "gringo menu" in the US, is fundamentally flawed.

Foreigner is the wrong wording. Coming from southern California, I always took gringo to mean non-mexican

[Robin Of House Hill]

Foreigner is the wrong wording. Coming from southern California, I always took gringo to mean non-mexican

Now, we get to the truth of it. So what slang term for Mexican, might I safely name my menu section?

[TheLoneliestMonk]

A more apt comparison would be a slang term for non-American

ETA And I think this word could be useful. Americans have as much a unique shared history, experience, language etc. that a word for those who do not share those things could absolutely serve a purpose.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

So, if I open a restaurant and have a "foreigner's menu" that features Mexican food, no one should get offended? But more to the point, inside the US, I'm not a foreigner, so the idea of calling it a "gringo menu" in the US, is fundamentally flawed.

But...you're eating in a restaurant that is expressly going for a "south of the border" feel. It's supposed to be fun. So rather than saying something boring like "Foreignor menu", you try to stay with the theme and say "gringo" menu. Kind of gives me that "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" feel.

I suppose it would be like going to a, let's say, Boston/seafood themed restaurant in the deep south, and then having a sub menu of "Rebel vittles" that had some traditional southern stuff on it. Or a southern restaurant in Boston or something that has "Yankee grub".

I don't like real double standards either, but I don't think that's what's really going on here. This is just supposed to be something fun, and I think the vast majority of gringos would take it that way unless they're trying to start an argument to prove some point.

[Kolantero]

Isn't that perhaps just an indication of white privilege at work? The dominant culture can afford to laugh off the jabs made at its own expense, because at the end of the day, they aren't dealing with the cultural disadvantages that facilitate disparaging comments made in an oppressive context.

Yep, that's exactly what it is when people in a society are taught that it is more acceptable to use racial slurs (although i wouldn't call "gringo" a slur from my experience with U.S. culture, but maybe that's just the effect of the society allowing it) against a specific group. I'm sure that this opinion has nothing to do with some pre-conceived notion which demands that everything is explained as "white privilege"

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Now, we get to the truth of it. So what slang term for Mexican, might I safely name my menu section?

There may not be one. I can't really think of too many acceptable terms for blacks to call whites, or vice-versa, that would really work. To my ears, though, gringo doesn't have that negative connotation, perhaps because it's always been a word that refers to wealthier, and generally better off, people from a wealthier country.

[Penguin king]

Whilst it's clearly possible for members of a minority to discriminiate against members of the majority, is there anyone in this thread who'd really be offended by being called a gringo?

Imagine you're walking down the road talking on your phone, not really paying attention, and you almost bump into a mexican gentleman. He looks a bit annoyed, and says "Hey gringo, watch where you're going!" Does his use of language really offend you? Speaking personally I don't think it would bother me. I don't think i'd find gaijin or honkey particularly upseting either. On the other hand If he were to call me an asshole, or a cock-muncher or use some other non specific insult, it might just rile me up a little.

[The Mance]

I agree that it shouldn't be prohibited. On the other hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable to private parties to draw their own conclusions about the morality of someone who uses a symbol identified so specifically with such a regime. At the very least, it is insensitive to some very serious issues.

Like the Confederate flag?