[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Winter In My Heart]

Definitely, the opportunity was right there. Just another reason they should've dedicated the whole episode to the Starks. Could've used some of the money that paid for all that guard armor in Yunkai on a dignified death for Greywind.

:agree:

[teemo]

Does anyone else avoid the "Inside the Episode" segments? I watched them in season one and then something one of the D's said pissed me off so bad (can't remember what) that I never wanted to watch again :P

[Cas Stark]

Does anyone else avoid the "Inside the Episode" segments? I watched them in season one and then something one of the D's said pissed me off so bad (can't remember what) that I never wanted to watch again :P

LOL, I watch them religiously, even though they sometimes make me go "WTF" and they have totally convinced me that Dany is ultimately going to roll into Westeros as the savior dragon queen that she thinks she is.

[teemo]

LOL, I watch them religiously, even though they sometimes make me go "WTF" and they have totally convinced me that Dany is ultimately going to roll into Westeros as the savior dragon queen that she thinks she is.

:ack: :ack: :ack: :ack: :ack: :ack: :ack:

:tantrum:

and that's exactly why I'm avoiding them. So I don't end up breaking my television. Even though they pretty much did the RW justice (as much as they can for their creative capabilities) that doesn't quite make everything else forgiven.

[Harnisfechten]

Another nitpick I have, and perhaps the biggest issue for me: I didn't like the sword fight with Jorah, Daario and Grey Worm. It felt far too choreographic, and the worse bit was Grey Worm spinning his spear around on for no purpose other than to look 'cool'. Wasn't keen on how the guards just swarmed in either as if it was a Bruce Lee film about Ninja's...

totally goes against everything the unsullied stand for, when you think about it.

that's what I'm saying!

To all you knocking on the throats being cut, Have you ever watched the videos of the mexican drug cartels slitting their captives throats?thats exactly what it looks like. Is realism comical?

Most of the complaints aren't about the cgi. It's about the timing. The "hit-and-run throat cut". Guy enters stage right, cuts throat, exits stage left. That kinda thing. It was awkward. It had the timing of a theatre play.

Hightower, Dayne, and Whent weren't fighting undisciplined slave soldiers (Think Gold Cloaks but worse and not paid), they fought 7 relatively seasoned men on horeseback after spending God knows how long in the middle of nowhere desert. As unlikely as Jorah, Grey Worm, and Daario's victory is from a sheer numbers perspective, it's not exactly the same thing, or really even close. When I saw the scene unfolding I thought to myself...Ok so they're going to fight 20 guys?? Well this will be a comical holywood fight and just sat back and watched the very unrealistic but highly entertaining and artsy fight, so I got to enjoy it. Iain Glenn fighting is awesome!

Iain Glenn is one of the only actors who looks like he knows what he's doing with a sword.

[Lord Flashheart]

Iain Glenn is one of the only actors who looks like he knows what he's doing with a sword.

He looked like a boss with that sword.

One little nitpick that may have already been mentioned. Tormund says they would rather fight rangers in the field and that the old man may get alot of them out of the castle...so why kill him when letting him go helps your strategy?

[Harnisfechten]

He looked like a boss with that sword.

One little nitpick that may have already been mentioned. Tormund says they would rather fight rangers in the field and that the old man may get alot of them out of the castle...so why kill him when letting him go helps your strategy?

that's because show-Tormund is WAAAAYYYYYY different from book-Tormund. and show-Tormund is an idiot.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I just reread the three chapters leading up to and including the Red Wedding--I haven't read them in close to ten years maybe. They were amazing. Dacey Mormont, Smalljon and Greatjon, the Glovers, Jason Manderly--all of these rich side characters who loved and supported their King, who would (and did) die for him. Their loyalty is a huge part of what made the outcome so tragic, their futile struggle to save their King, Umber flipping over tables, Dacey smashing an armed guard in the face while only moments before being described as shy, beautiful when she danced with Robb. It was all so full of pathos, and it resonates, and none of it was overly gory in description. It hit me as much as the last time I read it, and reminded me why I loved Robb's story, his campaign, and much of my care for his character came from those of his bannermen who loved him so much, the loyalty he inspired.

None of this transferred to the screen, not in three seasons, and not on Sunday night. It was an utter waste of what could have been one of the most tragic moments in television history, but we were deprived of it due to the lack of vision of the creators of this show. So awful how it turned out, I have been in shock for the past two days--at just how bad this all turned out. I am so disappointed, but at the same time, I am glad I could go back and read those chapters and be returned right into those moments--the show didn't ruin that for me at least.

[TheDarkOne]

I just reread the three chapters leading up to and including the Red Wedding--I haven't read them in close to ten years maybe. They were amazing. Dacey Mormont, Smalljon and Greatjon, the Glovers, Jason Manderly--all of these rich side characters who loved and supported their King, who would (and did) die for him. Their loyalty is a huge part of what made the outcome so tragic, their futile struggle to save their King, Umber flipping over tables, Dacey smashing an armed guard in the face while only moments before being described as shy, beautiful when she danced with Robb. It was all so full of pathos, and it resonates, and none of it was overly gory in description. It hit me as much as the last time I read it, and reminded me why I loved Robb's story, his campaign, and much of my care for his character came from those of his bannermen who loved him so much, the loyalty he inspired.

None of this transferred to the screen, not in three seasons, and not on Sunday night. It was an utter waste of what could have been one of the most tragic moments in television history, but we were deprived of it due to the lack of vision of the creators of this show. So awful how it turned out, I have been in shock for the past two days--at just how bad this all turned out. I am so disappointed, but at the same time, I am glad I could go back and read those chapters and be returned right into those moments--the show didn't ruin that for me at least.

I have stated for many moons that the reason failures like this have occurred and keep occurring is the lack of time spent and effort made to develop characters. I'm not sure anyone even cared about TV Robb or his death. The gore certainly caused it to be unsettling, but on an emotional level I'm not sure it resonated or had any lasting effect besides the initial shock value.

The throat cut to throat cut is border line SNL skit type stuff. It is so awkward and out of place it made absolutely no sense whatsoever. On re watching, it is almost comical.

I won't even get into Robb's last words being Mommy. That's just.....regrettable for so many reasons.

[Winter In My Heart]

I have stated for many moons that the reason failures like this have occurred and keep occurring is the lack of time spent and effort made to develop characters. I'm not sure anyone even cared about TV Robb or his death. The gore certainly caused it to be unsettling, but on an emotional level I'm not sure it resonated or had any lasting effect besides the initial shock value.

The throat cut to throat cut is border line SNL skit type stuff. It is so awkward and out of place it made absolutely no sense whatsoever. On re watching, it is almost comical.

I won't even get into Robb's last words being Mommy. That's just.....regrettable for so many reasons.

I agree. But why is it regrettable his last words being mother? I know in the books it was his driewolf, but at least in this episode they showed some semblance of the two repairing their strained relationship even if it was rather to little to late on the writers part. I'd much rather him say mother than say his annoying dead wife's name. (Saying Grey Wind would have been nice though.)

[Pinkie Baelish]

I have stated for many moons that the reason failures like this have occurred and keep occurring is the lack of time spent and effort made to develop characters. I'm not sure anyone even cared about TV Robb or his death. The gore certainly caused it to be unsettling, but on an emotional level I'm not sure it resonated or had any lasting effect besides the initial shock value.

The throat cut to throat cut is border line SNL skit type stuff. It is so awkward and out of place it made absolutely no sense whatsoever. On re watching, it is almost comical.

I won't even get into Robb's last words being Mommy. That's just.....regrettable for so many reasons.

I'm not sure whether you're trolling or not, but pretty much everybody and their mother is talking about the Red Wedding on the internet. A compilation video of fan reactions has already reached 2 million views on Youtube in about 2 days, and given the eruption in social media following the episode, it's pretty damn clear that people did care about Robb's death.

As for Robb's last words being mother, well this is a change that only enhanced the tragedy IMO. The whole tragedy of the scene is Cat seeing what she thinks to be her last child being murdered in front of her. In the context of the show, Robb has been giving his mother the cold shoulder a lot this season, and only asked for her approval in episode 9. It seemed like his last words were almost a plea from help - it illustrated that he may be a king, but he was still a boy that needed his mother for support. And given the situation he was in, that doesn't make him look like a wuss at all.

I'm no parent, but for Catelyn to see her last son, who had been trying to live without her support, come and essentially plead for reassurance or support, only to be killed right in front of her- well, that is nothing short of devastating. Catelyn is still a mother, and I'd like to think, that in that moment, she still saw him as a small boy who needed his mother for love and support. And for that moment to be ripped apart by witnessing Roose stabbing Robb, well, that just makes the whole Red Wedding that much sadder IMO.

I think Robb's last words are supposed to make us pity Catelyn more than Robb, and it largely succeeded, if you ask me. Besides, Robb's connection with Grey Wind has been largely ignored in the show, so for his last words to be "mother" is far more effective in the context of the show.

[tws1978]

Wouldn't bother me at all if Stoneheart was missed out.

The whole reason why Aria spends time with BwB and witnesses the ressurrection is for GRRM to introduce the concept so we as readers already know it can be done and accept it when we later met ressurected Cat. D&D kept Beric and the ressurection on the show so I´m sure they will keep Stoneheart as well.

It doesn´t mean the actress has to be used at all in season 4. All they have to do is show a glimpse of nuCat in this week finale, make clear she was ressurected and she is using the brotherhood to go after Freys and then just have various characters mention the sighting of a mysterious woman and how the Freys seems to be disappear everywhere. The audience will connect the dots easily. MF can only come back as the special quest star somewhere in season 5 for her key scene with Brienne and Jamie.

D&D made a point of taking Gendry away from brotherhood because they liked the actor and wanted to use him more so I think that means this is it for the brotherhood and its onscreen presence and they have no intention to follow them in season 4 or later.

[Roose Seal]

None of this transferred to the screen, not in three seasons, and not on Sunday night. It was an utter waste of what could have been one of the most tragic moments in television history, but we were deprived of it due to the lack of vision of the creators of this show. So awful how it turned out, I have been in shock for the past two days--at just how bad this all turned out. I am so disappointed, but at the same time, I am glad I could go back and read those chapters and be returned right into those moments--the show didn't ruin that for me at least.

I thought Robb's storyline was handled superbly in season 1. The show gained a lot by making him a PoV character and it really felt like he had a loyal army surrounding him.

This season it's "Karstark appears out of nowhere. Karstark dies" "tent meeting. Catelyn does not speak" "another tent meeting. Blackfish says something thug-ish" over and over. There was absolutely no buildup.

Why do you think they added the whole pregnancy thing? It's cheap emotional manipulation.

Then they had to go and overkill with calling the baby Ned and having Talisa repeatedly stabbed in the stomach.

Was the scene shocking and unexpected? Sure. But it was also gross and completely devoid of emotion, for me, because it was painfully clear that they were going for shock value alone.

I'm still having a hard time believing that D&D supposedly wanted to make the show just so they could film the RW.

[Cadiva]

Biggest nitpick is Jorah didn't behead anyone or get a cool kill.

But why do some of you think Greywind killed Freys at the RW? He ripped one arm off and killed a few dogs. His death in the show strikes more chords because it represents the futility of the situation Robb & Co. are in.

Representation of Robb? He's trapped with no way to reciprocate the violence being extracted on him.

I've mentioned that before, I wonder if people are mixing up Grey Wolf's efforts during the Battles of Whispering Woods and Oxcross, where he is referred to as having killed lots of men. At The Twins he kills four Frey wolfhounds and bites the arm off one person.

[moey reed]

the red weddin seemed too rushed and wasn't dramatic enough imo..i would've loved to get to see the face clawing and mad cat..i must say that i found bran's and rickon's goodbyes a lot more heartwrenching to watch then the wedding

[Pinkie Baelish]

Does anyone else avoid the "Inside the Episode" segments? I watched them in season one and then something one of the D's said pissed me off so bad (can't remember what) that I never wanted to watch again :P

Weiss lost me when he said Stannis would make a terrible king. And I'm worried that they're going to make Dany the uber-badass flawless dragon princess while glossing over her inability to rule in Meereen. Although, they do need to keep her as likable as possible, because if the show follows the books closely in seasons 5 and 6, I guarantee many people would have given up on Daenerys.

[Cas Stark]

I thought Robb's storyline was handled superbly in season 1. The show gained a lot by making him a PoV character and it really felt like he had a loyal army surrounding him.

This season it's "Karstark appears out of nowhere. Karstark dies" "tent meeting. Catelyn does not speak" "another tent meeting. Blackfish says something thug-ish" over and over. There was absolutely no buildup.

Why do you think they added the whole pregnancy thing? It's cheap emotional manipulation.

Then they had to go and overkill with calling the baby Ned and having Talisa repeatedly stabbed in the stomach.

Was the scene shocking and unexpected? Sure. But it was also gross and completely devoid of emotion, for me, because it was painfully clear that they were going for shock value alone.

I'm still having a hard time believing that D&D supposedly wanted to make the show just so they could film the RW.

Exactly. The Robb Stark who so poignantly "called the banners" in Season 1, who won the loyalty of his bannermen by being the badass young wolf....he disappeared in Season 3 and become the lovestruck husband where the whole storyline about Northern loyalty, bannermen, war fell away and was reduced to 4 people rattling around Riverrun talking to each other and Robb and Talisa in luvs.

The entire arc in Season 3 should have been filled with foreboding, we should have seen the Freys leave, we should have seen more army, we should have had a handful of bannermen, as I've said 1000000 times, who would be a core of characters around Robb so when the RW came the viewer would be vested in them and feel their deaths, we might even have had a scene with Cat and Talisa where Talisa acwknowledges the price Robb payed to marry her...

The RW should have been the bulk of the episode, with much more lead up that this was going to be where Robb again turns the tables on his enemies, more details of what his plan was, more shots of the army, and so on.

As I've said, they did a good job for what they chose to make it, the death of Cat, Robb and his wife, the Romeo and Juliet of Westeros.

[Cas Stark]

Weiss lost me when he said Stannis would make a terrible king. And I'm worried that they're going to make Dany the uber-badass flawless dragon princess while glossing over her inability to rule in Meereen. Although, they do need to keep her as likable as possible, because if the show follows the books closely in seasons 5 and 6, I guarantee many people would have given up on Daenerys.

Stop worrying and accept it, LOL, that's what they're going to do, every time they talk about Dany they revert to fanboys, their take on her has convinced me that I am the one who is wrong about the author's intent and that she IS supposed to be perceived as a badass savior and that I am supposed to brush aside the morally questionable things she's done as necessary and part of her 'learning curve'...I'm not supposed to think she's an incompetant ruler who veers from extreme to extreme in her decision making [like I do].

[lunadangelo]

The "hit-and-run throat cut". Guy enters stage right, cuts throat, exits stage left. That kinda thing. It was awkward. It had the timing of a theatre play.

:agree: It was so terrible, like ninja style killing, absolutely unconvincing.

That and Cat going catatonic. IMO, it would have been much more convincing if she had fallen on to her knees still screaming and howling, may be even crawling over to her son and or pulling on her hair and banging her head on the floor :bang:

[ladyinblack]

I just reread the three chapters leading up to and including the Red Wedding--I haven't read them in close to ten years maybe. They were amazing. Dacey Mormont, Smalljon and Greatjon, the Glovers, Jason Manderly--all of these rich side characters who loved and supported their King, who would (and did) die for him. Their loyalty is a huge part of what made the outcome so tragic, their futile struggle to save their King, Umber flipping over tables, Dacey smashing an armed guard in the face while only moments before being described as shy, beautiful when she danced with Robb. It was all so full of pathos, and it resonates, and none of it was overly gory in description. It hit me as much as the last time I read it, and reminded me why I loved Robb's story, his campaign, and much of my care for his character came from those of his bannermen who loved him so much, the loyalty he inspired.

None of this transferred to the screen, not in three seasons, and not on Sunday night. It was an utter waste of what could have been one of the most tragic moments in television history, but we were deprived of it due to the lack of vision of the creators of this show. So awful how it turned out, I have been in shock for the past two days--at just how bad this all turned out. I am so disappointed, but at the same time, I am glad I could go back and read those chapters and be returned right into those moments--the show didn't ruin that for me at least.

:bowdown:

and all those loyal Northmen are massacred by men that they fought with side by side----ultimate betrayal