Robb's worst betrayals came from his aunt and his grandfather

[Minsc]

I wouldn't have punished the Freys for fighting on the other side (Lyn Corbray was knighted fighting for the Targs, forgiven by Jon Arryn, and killed Prince Llewelyn Martell.), but I would punish them because they DIDN'T FIGHT AT ALL!

It is ridiculous to argue that you wouldn't punish someone for fighting against you, while punishing someone who delayed their response.

[PrinceHenryris]

It is ridiculous to argue that you wouldn't punish someone for fighting against you, while punishing someone who delayed their response.

While I personally agree, Jon Arryn disagreed.

Robert Baratheon called his Maester to heal Ser Barristan.

Ned Stark returned Dawn to the Daynes.

Westeroosi morals are different than ours.

When the Liege Lord calls his banners, you'd better show up. Even Lady Dustin admits she had to send enough that it wouldn't look suspicious.

[Minsc]

While I personally agree, Jon Arryn disagreed.

Robert Baratheon called his Maester to heal Ser Barristan.

Ned Stark returned Dawn to the Daynes.

Westeroosi morals are different than ours.

When the Liege Lord calls his banners, you'd better show up. Even Lady Dustin admits she had to send enough that it wouldn't look suspicious.

And yet none of those characters thought that Walder Frey was deserving of death for showing up late, thus that doesn't mean they would rather favor a open traitor who fought against him over someone who is just slow to support them.

[PrinceHenryris]

And yet none of those characters thought that Walder Frey was deserving of death for showing up late, thus that doesn't mean they would rather favor a open traitor who fought against him over someone who is just slow to support them.

Just because Hoster, Ned and Big Bob didn't besiege the Twins, doesn't mean they shouldn't have.

If Ned had more brains than honor, he should have sacked the Twins

The Twins are now the only thing stopping a Northern army from moving South in a hurry. Any smart logistician would have realized the value of the Twins.

[The Dragon King]

I think only Tyrion proposed to attack the Vales and it was after he was almost killed by that crazy bitch, yet Tywin didnt give a single fuck.

Tywin was likely relieved at the time because he expected he to join Robb, that she didnt join Tywin still makes her a traitor and he would have dealt with her appropriately in time.

[The Dragon King]

It is ridiculous to argue that you wouldn't punish someone for fighting against you, while punishing someone who delayed their response.

It's not ridiculous at all. How can you not respect loyalty? Those that remained loyal to the Targs, who were the rightful monarchs, are the ones you want on your side when you take the throne. There's nothing worse than an unreliable ally like Walder Frey, who will just betray you when it suits him, oh wait...that's exactly what happened!

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

She was a selfish *woman* who murdered her husband, helped start a massive war that got her brother in law, sister, and nephew killed all just to please her sugar (and possibly baby) daddy.

[Talleyrand]

Walder Frey didn't come once, and he did it again years later.

If he'd swung from a rope, it's likely Ser Stevron would've been promptly available and without haggling.

Cause that logic works so well - thats why Robb is Joff's loyal vassal, the Karstarks rode with Robb till the end and why Aerys had such a long and fruitful reign after killing Rickard.

Executing the heads of houses with little provocation does not secure the loyalty of their successors - it gets you a blood feud.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't see why Lysa had to help Robb.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I don't see why Lysa had to help Robb.

Family, Duty, Honor

Family comes first

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Family, Duty, Honor

Family comes first

True. SRobin comes before Robb.

And Lysa was the one who was hurted by Hoster who didn't followed the motto. So no Lysa had no reason to help Robb.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

True. SRobin comes before Robb.

And Lysa was the one who was hurted by Hoster who didn't followed the motto. So no Lysa had no reason to help Robb.

Funny thing is if she was in trouble , like say the Lannisters were marching on her for whatever reason she would expect Robb and Edmure to come help her.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Funny thing is if she was in trouble , like say the Lannisters were marching on her for whatever reason she would expect Robb and Edmure to come help her.

Maybe. But still, there was no reason why she should endanger Robin to help Robb.

[SkaggCannibal]

I always find it interesting how Lysa is being painted as an idiot for staying out of the war, yet Doran Martell is often seen as being a mastered player/politician when his only accomplishment is staying out of the war.

That's because all of Lysa's allies were being slaughtered, while Doran's enemies were all fighting each other.

Lysa, if she had a brain, would have realised she was part of the strongest alliance in the whole of Westeros, North+Riverlands+Vale, all bound by blood. Now that apparently wasn't important enough to lift a finger and help the family. Calling Lysa smart for throwing this alliance out of the window... No I don't agree.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Maybe. But still, there was no reason why she should endanger Robin to help Robb.

If someone did want to kill Sweet Robin they wouldn't send an army to the Eyrie, they would send a single person and do it secretly, kinda like what LF is doing now. Keepin the Vale's forces in the Vale made absolutely no sense in that regard. 100 men could hold the Eyrie against 100,000 while all of the Vales forces marched with Robb and SR would be fine.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

If someone did want to kill Sweet Robin they wouldn't send an army to the Eyrie, they would send a single person and do it secretly, kinda like what LF is doing now. Keepin the Vale's forces in the Vale made absolutely no sense in that regard. 100 men could hold the Eyrie against 100,000 while all of the Vales forces marched with Robb and SR would be fine.

But what she should take any chance?

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

But what she should take any chance?

any good person should stand with family

[Jon's Queen Consort]

any good person should stand with family

But not against his child's welfare.

[complexphoenix]

Ok, I'm with you on Lysa, but not on Hoster. Hoster's relatively light treatment of Walder Frey was a disaster in retrospect, but at the time those decisions were made they seemed perfectly reasonable. Whereas Lysa's decision was immediately and obviously raising the odds that the Lannisters would defeat Robb, so yes, that is a betrayal.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

But not against his child's welfare.

It would put him in more danger than he was already in. Sending the Vales forces with Robb while leaving a few hundred men at each stronghold in the Vale, no Lannister army could take the Vale much less the Eyrie. So in that respect not sending your army to help Robb and Edmure makes no sense. If someone wanted SR dead, as far as she is concerned there is, then it would be far easier to just send a single person to do it. So really SR isn't really any safer.