[Book Spoilers]The "Episode 9" Moment of Season 4

[The Pain Yak]

Let me know what you think.

You're putting the Battle at the Wall way too early. Producers have said there's another Blackwater-scale battle on the horizon. That means either Meereen or the Wall, and viewers are likely to have about the same interest in another-random-slaver-city-on-the-continent-we-don't-care-about as readers have had.

[AegonSnow]

You're putting the Battle at the Wall way too early. Producers have said there's another Blackwater-scale battle on the horizon. That means either Meereen or the Wall, and viewers are likely to have about the same interest in another-random-slaver-city-on-the-continent-we-don't-care-about as readers have had.

There's two battles on the wall. IIRC

The first one from the South.

And then the one where Stannis Arrives

[The Pain Yak]

There's two battles on the wall. IIRC

The first one from the South.

And then the one where Stannis Arrives

True, and I expect the former to occur early in the season. The anticipated show schedule I was responding to, however, has Stannis breaking the Wildlings at the Wall in Episode 3. Waaaaayyyy too early.

[7V3N]

True, and I expect the former to occur early in the season. The anticipated show schedule I was responding to, however, has Stannis breaking the Wildlings at the Wall in Episode 3. Waaaaayyyy too early.

That's why I have those events separate. I have the battle at episode 2, then Stannis arriving at episode 3, and the Purple Wedding at 4, ... It's a line-up that gives a new great event at every episode. The biggest complaint I've seen about this season is that there were too many "slow" episodes. It also puts every story at a good point whether it be at the end of ASOS or beginning of AFFC/ADWD. Bran is the only one I had going slow because they would do good to not get ahead of themselves (due to his lack of content from the end of ASOS to the end of ADWD for a TV show.

[metr0man]

I think it will be Stannis arriving to crush the WIldlings as the big climax of Season 4.

The twist is though that I think they will change the timeline of events... so you'll have AFFC/ADWD stuff happening first... and THEN have the big battle at the Wall end.

Basically:

early in the season:

Purple Wedding

Mid-season:

Tyrion escapes, kills Tywin, Arya, Lady Stoneheart, all that stuff.

Late season: Cersei ruling, Tyrion travelling to meet Dany, whatever parts of Ironborn/Dorne the writers leave in

Last two episodes; Big assault on the Wall that is the Blackwater-esque battle.

[7V3N]

I think it will be Stannis arriving to crush the WIldlings as the big climax of Season 4.

The twist is though that I think they will change the timeline of events... so you'll have AFFC/ADWD stuff happening first... and THEN have the big battle at the Wall end.

Basically:

early in the season:

Purple Wedding

Mid-season:

Tyrion escapes, kills Tywin, Arya, Lady Stoneheart, all that stuff.

Late season: Cersei ruling, Tyrion travelling to meet Dany, whatever parts of Ironborn/Dorne the writers leave in

Last two episodes; Big assault on the Wall that is the Blackwater-esque battle.

I disagree. They have already had Stannis do nothing this season. They can't pull that off for another season. They need him to become a major player again, and he does so and became loved by readers the moment he saved the Wall. From that point on people want more of him, and the show can take advantage of that by making him save the Wall earlier, and getting interaction between Stannis and Jon, which viewers are sure to love, as soon as possible.

[Faint]

So let me get this straight: They are going to spend the entirety of the fourth season covering the last fourth of Tyrion's material from the third book?

Will Stannis be sailing that whole time?

[7V3N]

So let me get this straight: They are going to spend the entirety of the fourth season covering the last fourth of Tyrion's material from the third book?

Will Stannis be sailing that whole time?

No. They will be getting into some AFFC/ADWD stuff at the end. I am sure the plots at the Wall will be advanced. There is just so much there, and so many great characters.

[Faint]

No. They will be getting into some AFFC/ADWD stuff at the end. I am sure the plots at the Wall will be advanced. There is just so much there, and so many great characters.

I'm all for commencing the fourth and fifth books by the middle of next season. If the showrunners are honestly plotting a seven season run, I would hope they would try to include as much material from the last four books as they have done for the first three.

[Loras]

I think it will be Stannis arriving to crush the WIldlings as the big climax of Season 4.

The twist is though that I think they will change the timeline of events... so you'll have AFFC/ADWD stuff happening first... and THEN have the big battle at the Wall end.

Basically:

early in the season:

Purple Wedding

Mid-season:

Tyrion escapes, kills Tywin, Arya, Lady Stoneheart, all that stuff.

Late season: Cersei ruling, Tyrion travelling to meet Dany, whatever parts of Ironborn/Dorne the writers leave in

Last two episodes; Big assault on the Wall that is the Blackwater-esque battle.

I think that the showrunners need to be really careful with the placing of the Battle for the Wall. The Wall is not King's Landing, the nucleus of the plot throughout season 2. To place the battle in Episode 9 would mess with the climax of the season. There is no fallout for the other characters from the Battle for the Wall. It is no Red Wedding or Blackwater.

The episode 9 moment has to be Tywin's death, because the fallout from that death is massive and has an impact on most of our other characters. Season 4 will be another season of Tyrion, to think that his big moment won't be the episode 9 event is silly - IMO.

The battle for the wall should be episode 7, to allow all of the other stories time to reach their own climax.

[YouSnowNothing]

I'm sticking with this timeline personally.

E1- Meet the red Viper

E2 - Red Viper chats with Tyrion, gets offered Cersei

E3-- Purple Wedding

E4 -Tyrion awaiting trial

E5 - Trial Pt 1 - KIngguard and Pycelle testify

E6 - Trial Part II - Varys and Cersei Testify

E7 -Trial Part III Shae testifies, Tyrion requests trial by combat

E8 -Red Viper vs Mountain

E9 - Tyrion's execution / escape. (I think they'll try and fakeout viewers into thinking the big event is Tyrion getting beheaded like Ned)

E10 - Pentos.

This is exactly what I would do. Except maybe he and all the KL characters might miss out episode 7 to make room for the Battle of the Wall and other thematically related storylines (like 309 this year, cutting out all Lannisters and KL and focusing primarily on the Starks). All the trial can be folded into episodes 4-6.

[Loras]

This is exactly what I would do. Except maybe he and all the KL characters might miss out episode 7 to make room for the Battle of the Wall and other thematically related storylines (like 309 this year, cutting out all Lannisters and KL and focusing primarily on the Starks). All the trial can be folded into episodes 4-6.

Yeah, I agree that the outline looks very realistic and sensible.

I wouldn't include Pentos in Season 4 either. Episode 10 needs to only feature a single Tyrion scene where he physically escapes the Red Keep and gets on a ship. It could potentially feature a brilliant Tyrion/Varys scene as a 'final meeting' between the two.

The audience doesn't need to know what Tyrion is going to do next, just that he is done with King's Landing. It finishes the character arc much more effectively. The lingering question that the audience should be asking is 'where is he going', 'what will he do next?' - and potentially will Cersei's assassins catch him?

[Pinkie Baelish]

Usually the show goes with a big moment to end episode 4. I don't know whether it's because the first 4 episodes are released early to be reviewed by critics, but it's possible. So it would make sense if they had a game-changer to end ep 4. I can only think of two events that qualify as such: the Kingsmoot and the Purple Wedding. I'm going with the Purple Wedding. Joffrey dying two episodes in would feel too rushed, the first couple episodes of each season have always been used as the foundations for the entire season, and constructing the beginning of each character's arc. We need time to make the audience hate him once again, just so that his death is extremely satisfying.

[jentario]

Tyrion's escape is finale material, what are you guys talking about?!

My choice would be the final Battle at the Wall with the siege going on basically throughout the whole season. Oberyn vs Gregor for episode 9 as well unless they will make the episode focused on the Wall like Blackwater (which I would very much like, if they can make it work). The Wall's stuff would be:

1- Jon prepares for the wildling attack behind the Castle (it's a bummer that show Ygritte didn't shoot him at Queenscrown, but we can still have some good scenes with Aemon), scenes with Ygritte and Tormund will have a scene and we're introduced to Styr the Magnar

2- No Wall.

3- The Battle Behind the Wall, Ygritte gets the ax

4- No Wall. PW? Stannis sets off on a journey from Dragonstone and disappears,

5- Jon preparing the Wall for the giant wildling army, which would be the episode's cliffhanger

6- first and minor Wall battle (mostly off-screen for budget issues), sense of dread and that there is no point in fighting... A Mance scene, I guess.

7- Jon gets thrown into an ice cell, another Mance scene revealing the Horn of Winter (but not explaining its purpose)

8- Jon is given an ultimatum at the ice cells and he accepts it, more recognition that there is no way the Night's Watch will make it

9- Big Battle at the Wall- maybe the return of Ghost and... STANNIS!

10- Aftermath, Jon making a choice between Winterfell and the NW. Tywin does not shit gold.

[Loras]

Tyrion's escape is finale material, what are you guys talking about?!

My choice would be the final Battle at the Wall with the siege going on basically throughout the whole season. Oberyn vs Gregor for episode 9 as well unless they will make the episode focused on the Wall like Blackwater (which I would very much like, if they can make it work). The Wall's stuff would be:

1- Jon prepares for the wildling attack behind the Castle (it's a bummer that show Ygritte didn't shoot him at Queenscrown, but we can still have some good scenes with Aemon), scenes with Ygritte and Tormund will have a scene and we're introduced to Styr the Magnar

2- No Wall.

3- The Battle Behind the Wall, Ygritte gets the ax

4- No Wall. PW? Stannis sets off on a journey from Dragonstone and disappears,

5- Jon preparing the Wall for the giant wildling army, which would be the episode's cliffhanger

6- first and minor Wall battle (mostly off-screen for budget issues), sense of dread and that there is no point in fighting... A Mance scene, I guess.

7- Jon gets thrown into an ice cell, another Mance scene revealing the Horn of Winter (but not explaining its purpose)

8- Jon is given an ultimatum at the ice cells and he accepts it, more recognition that there is no way the Night's Watch will make it

9- Big Battle at the Wall- maybe the return of Ghost and... STANNIS!

10- Aftermath, Jon making a choice between Winterfell and the NW. Tywin does not shit gold.

There is a huge difference between the consequences of the Battle at the Wall and the Blackwater.

The major storyline of the second season was the war of five kings. The Blackwater was a pivotal battle that had repercussions in most of the major storylines. The Battle of the Wall has no consequences for anyone outwith that small group of characters (Jon/Sam/Stannis/Melisandre), so to disrupt the flow of the season by dedicating an entire episode - particularly the pivotal episode 9 - to the battle seems like an awful idea.

If you consider the storylines for Season 4, it becomes clear that Tyrion will be front and centre once again. His escape from KL is finale material you are right, but killing Tywin and Shae is the "Red Wedding" moment of the season. The fallout from that has big repercussions for the big characters, including Stannis.

[~No One~]

Usually the show goes with a big moment to end episode 4. I don't know whether it's because the first 4 episodes are released early to be reviewed by critics, but it's possible. So it would make sense if they had a game-changer to end ep 4. I can only think of two events that qualify as such: the Kingsmoot and the Purple Wedding. I'm going with the Purple Wedding. Joffrey dying two episodes in would feel too rushed, the first couple episodes of each season have always been used as the foundations for the entire season, and constructing the beginning of each character's arc. We need time to make the audience hate him once again, just so that his death is extremely satisfying.

IMO after 3 seasons of coming across solidly as a huge twat, the audience already hates Joffrey. His first scene in S4 is probably going to be when he receives gifts from everyone, and he's a pretty big dick then. It'll be a pretty good intro to his douchebaggery for any who've forgotten.

If they delay the PW till episode 4, they'll never even finish the rest of ASOS. The entirety of season 3 has been laying the foundation for the sh*t that's about to hit the fan...Ygritte, Oberyn, Joffrey, Shae, Tywin... They've gotta get a move-on just to fit those in....it's a huge character death on average every 2 episodes!!!!

I agree that there's always a big episode 4, and I think it'll be Ygritte dying. Jon has LOADS of stuff to do at the wall... I don't even think we'll get to the LC vote next year.

[GREYJOY4LYFE]

Set up for the Joffrey-Margarey wedding will be Episode 1. Balon Greyjoy dies: set-up for Kingsmoot will be Episode 2. Joffrey's wedding will be Episode 3. Set up for Dany taking over Meeren will be Episode 4. Kingsmoot, set up Battle at Wall will be Episode 5. Tyrion's trial episode 6. Battle for the Wall will be Episode 7. Mountain vs. Red Viper episode 8. Tyrion's escape will be Episode 9. Jon being named Lord Commander and Dany taking over Meeren, expelling Jorah will be Episode 10, final scene: Lady Stonehart. Sprinkle in some Dornish and Brienne going on her quest here and there throughout.

[AegonSnow]

Let's have a bit of Sansa/LF at the VALE too.

[The Pain Yak]

I retract my prediction about the battle at the Wall in episode 9 of next season. Now that we've had the scene with Stannis, Mel and Davos discussing the situation at the wall closing off Season 3(way to ruin a cliffhanger, guys), I'm with 7V3N that the Battle at the Wall will happen early in the season and will possibly be a good deal less impressive than I was hoping, assuming they want to run with their tradition of Episode 9 being the Wham episode.

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

With Stannis already heading north, the battle must be earlier, so I would said: oberyn versus the mountain and Tyrion killing Tywin and escapes