[Book Spoilers]The "Episode 9" Moment of Season 4

[Chocolate_dream]

I really think the only thing that can cause a big shock for episode 9 is emphasizing Littlefinger's twist. I mean, he reveals the main question from the first season, whodunnit to Jon Arryn. that's huge. I feel like in the book it's mentiond quiet briefly. If they can make the reveal more epic, it would be a good episode 9 moment (of course, the last scene would be him throwing Lysa out of the moon door).

I like this. This is such a big moment in the book and one of the most shocking reveals in the series yet.

[Arrogant Bastard]

I think it will be, if it is mostly contained to the end of ASOS, the duel between Gregor and Oberyn.

Surprised so many people saying Tyrion's escape; I think that has to be a season finale moment. Why have him kill Tywin in the penultimate episode just to have him travel in a ship in the finale?

Unlike each of the first three seasons, I think episode 10 next season will have most of the big moments, not episode nine. It should have:

LF pushing Lysa out the moon door

Tyrion killing Tywin

Jon being elected LC

Arya leaving for Braavos

[peash]

Surprised so many people saying Tyrion's escape; I think that has to be a season finale moment. Why have him kill Tywin in the penultimate episode just to have him travel in a ship in the finale?

Because its one of the big climaxes together with Lysa going out the Moon Door, for me Jon, Bran, Arya and Dany's end points are cliffhangers/transitions and Ep 9 seems to be when D&D prefer to have the main climax.

So IMO Purple Wedding has to happen pretty early, no later than the 3rd episode (maybe even the second), which gives time to introduce the Martell-Tyrell feud (I don't think D&D have painted themselves into too much of a corner here by eliminating Willas) but then leaves time for the trial to have concluded by Ep 6 and the duel :fencing: by Ep 7 and then Tywin being ignominiously killed :D in Ep 9, along with LF trading Lysa in for a newer model. Ep 10 is Lady Stoneheart, Jon rejecting Stannis's offer and becoming LC, Arya boarding the ship to Braavos and Dany deciding to stay in Meereen.

[serlihis]

There is a huge difference between the consequences of the Battle at the Wall and the Blackwater.

The major storyline of the second season was the war of five kings. The Blackwater was a pivotal battle that had repercussions in most of the major storylines. The Battle of the Wall has no consequences for anyone outwith that small group of characters (Jon/Sam/Stannis/Melisandre), so to disrupt the flow of the season by dedicating an entire episode - particularly the pivotal episode 9 - to the battle seems like an awful idea.

No consequences? How about the whole realm which is at stake? They have clearly foreshadowed this event ever since Osha namedropped Mance in S1. Dedicating one episode for it wouldn't sound that bad at all.

And Tywin's death must be ep 10. Imagine Tyrion enraged and committing to kinslaying and giving one of the most badass oneliners of the show. Then finally escaping.

[Les Météores]

It seems so obvious Tyrion killing Tywin is the big event, the Lannisters only go downhill from there and you have four seasons to built up their feud.

And Tywin's death must be ep 10. Imagine Tyrion enraged and committing to kinslaying and giving one of the most badass oneliners of the show. Then finally escaping.

I personally would feel frustrated. The murder in episode 9 and him sailing to Penthos for the finale to set season 4 in motion works for me.

[The hairy bear]

It would be a mistake, IMO, to structure S4 as the previous 3 and force all climaxes into 4x09. The ending of Book 3 is specifically designed as a waiting point in the story. GRRM intended to be the final part of a first act followed by a 5 years gap.

4x09 should only have Oberyn vs the Mountain, and end with Tywin sentencing Tyrion to death. Let the non-readers think that this is the big event. And in 4x10, "Only Cat" and "Not Shitting Gold".

[A Song of Tyrion's member]

Lady Stonheart will take season finale. I think the last half of the season will have something big happen each episode.

[FuriousGeorge]

+1 for Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae. Also this thread has made me realise that season 4 is going to be unbelievably epic.

[JagLover]

I just can't see this happening; it would be an abomination of storytelling. Dany has only TWO chapters left in ASOS. No matter what kind of filler scenes you throw in, there's no material for a season-long arc. I'd like to see the show dive headlong into ADWD where Dany is concerned.

Personally I would be happy with them choosing a new path.

They are coming to the end of the more easily filmable book material and in front of them lies the sprawling mass of AFFC/ADWD.

Out of those books I would say definitly keep the Jon and Arya plotlines but I won;t be disappointed if they pick entirely new paths for Dany, Tyrion and so forth and don't introduce most of the new characters brought into the books.

A Season 4 which ends with Dany landing in Westeros might have some screaming, but would work as far as I am concerned.

[JagLover]

I firmly expect the ADwD material to be finished by the end of Season 5. Compelling story arcs on-screen are more important than staying a step behind the author.

Well said

I fully expect that GRRM will bring out one more book before the show ends, but he won't finish it.

They have a choice, seven or eight fast paced seasons to the end of the story and end it before GRRM, or blindly follow AFFC/ADWD and lose most of their audience.

How many TV shows have gone past 8 seasons?

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

IMHO, in 4x09 Red viper versus the mountain is going to be the main event because the unsullied will believe that Tyrion is going to bite the dust (Robb, Cat, Talisa and Ned died in episode 9), and later will be the escape.

In episode 9, Stannis will offer Winterfell to Jon that will give hopes to the Stark's fans and in 4x10 he will reject it and he will be chosen Lord Commander.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

my pick would be tyrion escaping and killing tywin/sahe

I second this, although I can see the Littlefinger Lyssa moment happening in the same episode.

[~No One~]

With Stannis already heading north, the battle must be earlier, so I would said: oberyn versus the mountain and Tyrion killing Tywin and escapes

This. I was so shocked, I thought they would keep Stannis' destination a surprise!

Also, my S4 timeline from earlier in this thread just got owned! haha! They moved stuff along much more quickly in the finale (which is awesome, btw) than I thought they would. I guess everyone who said they'd put in stuff from AFFC and ADWD much earlier were right.

Now I'm guessing:

ep. 1 - Balon Greyjoy dies, and intro to story

ep. 2 - PW, Joffrey dies

ep. 3 - Ygritte dies

ep. 4 - Sansa meets Lysa

ep. 5 - Battle at castle Black

ep. 6 - Pt. 1 of Tyrion's trial

ep. 7 - Stannis saves the NW

ep. 8 - Oberyn's trial by battle

ep. 9 - Tywin/Shae die. Sansa builds a snow castle

ep. 10 - Jon is LC, Lysa flies, Arya sails away, Tyrion sails away, Bran meets Bloodraven, Dany takes Mereen and UN-freakin'-Cat!!!

I hope they give Davos some good stuff to do... he's the new token 'good guy' in the show!!

[TheEvilKing]

I think season 4 will be different in that the biggest event, the PW will occur half way through the season, and the climax (Tyrion kills Shae and Tywin, Jon elected LC, LF kills Lysa, Kingsmoot) happens in ep 10. None of these events is, on its own, shocking enough for an ep 9 on the level of the Red Wedding or the Ned Beheading. If they have the means and cash to throw at it, the climactic battle at the Wall could be their big ep 9.

[AegonSnow]

Now I'm guessing:

ep. 1 - Balon Greyjoy dies, and intro to story

ep. 2 - PW, Joffrey dies

ep. 3 - Ygritte dies

ep. 4 - Sansa meets Lysa

ep. 5 - Battle at castle Black

ep. 6 - Pt. 1 of Tyrion's trial

ep. 7 - Stannis saves the NW

ep. 8 - Oberyn's trial by battle

ep. 9 - Tywin/Shae die. Sansa builds a snow castle

ep. 10 - Jon is LC, Lysa flies, Arya sails away, Tyrion sails away, Bran meets Bloodraven, Dany takes Mereen and UN-freakin'-Cat!!!

That's a really good timeline.

If they want, they can throw a bit of Dorne and the Kingsmoot.

I REALLY want to see the Queenmaker chapter. It has a nice "Jamie gets his hand chopped off" climax to it.

[~No One~]

That's a really good timeline.

If they want, they can throw a bit of Dorne and the Kingsmoot.

I REALLY want to see the Queenmaker chapter. It has a nice "Jamie gets his hand chopped off" climax to it.

I could be way off, but I'd love for them to open next season with a death per episode for the first 3 episodes. Keep viewers on their toes!

Yes I agree with you, I do think we'll see the Kingsmoot... probably soon after Balon dies. We might even see Victarion sail away for Slaver's Bay next season. I think it would be cool to see Victarion, Quentyn, and Tyrion all sailing for Dany. That'd be good episode 10 stuff.

I'm not sure they're casting any other Dorne people besides Oberyn and Ellaria for next season, but showing Arianne and/or Quentyn in season 4 will make their storylines more relevant to viewers for season 5.

Can't wait! Here's hoping for TWOW in 2014!

[Rashtibram]

I think they can easily divide up the season like this:

1: intro of Oberyn, typical premiere with not a lot happening

2: PW, huge shocker

3: LF rescuing Sansa and getting to the fingers

4: Battle of Castle Black, Ygritte's death, Shae's betrayal

5: Arya and the Hound at the Crossroads Inn, Jorah's betrayal of Dany

6: Battle of the Wall, ends with Jon getting put in a cell by Janos Slynt and Alliser Thorne

7: Oberyn vs. Gregor, Sansa arriving at the Eyrie, Arya leaving for Braavos

8: Jaime and Brienne "Oathkeeper", Stannis' arrival at the Wall.

9: "Hands of Gold", Tyrion kills Tywin and Shae. This is not a season finale moment, it's perfect for the penultimate episode. It's just like Ned's death in season 1, it's the big climax of the season and should be in the climactic episode.

10: Jon's election as LC, the Moon Door, the Kingsmoot, and as the finale moment... Bran meeting the children. WW attack, them trying to fight, then get rescued in an epic moment (besides, they have to push Bran's story forward.)

EDIT: Why do people think Oberyn vs. Gregor and Tyrion's escape will be in the same episode? That would be like having the Hound vs. Beric and him kidnapping her in the same episode. Don't forget they have a lot of stories to juggle around.

[7V3N]

I retract my prediction about the battle at the Wall in episode 9 of next season. Now that we've had the scene with Stannis, Mel and Davos discussing the situation at the wall closing off Season 3(way to ruin a cliffhanger, guys), I'm with 7V3N that the Battle at the Wall will happen early in the season and will possibly be a good deal less impressive than I was hoping, assuming they want to run with their tradition of Episode 9 being the Wham episode.

I thank you for the agreement, but I was very upset by the finale, especially in the (though incorrectly displayed, we will ignore that fault) bluntness of it. The thing about his arrival is that he is done, Jon and the Watch are done, Jon is placed on a suicide mission, and Stannis arrives as a hero. All because it was his duty as king (which Davos reminded him)--not because of the Others. I fear the ripple effect will make him recruiting Northerners for the 'Great battle against the horrible enemy' which GRRM has done his best to avoid. Just see the quote in my signature.

[Rashtibram]

Personally I would be happy with them choosing a new path.

They are coming to the end of the more easily filmable book material and in front of them lies the sprawling mass of AFFC/ADWD.

Out of those books I would say definitly keep the Jon and Arya plotlines but I won;t be disappointed if they pick entirely new paths for Dany, Tyrion and so forth and don't introduce most of the new characters brought into the books.

A Season 4 which ends with Dany landing in Westeros might have some screaming, but would work as far as I am concerned.

I would prefer them to keep to the books, honestly. And I think one, streamlined season of ADWD and AFFC could be great, if they eliminate some of the more tedious storylines. Here's my prediction:

1. Jon beheading Janos, Euron sends Victarion on his mission, etc.

2. Bran meets Bloodraven, Stannis takes Deepwood Motte

3. Tyrion finds out about Aegon and Griff, "The Queenmaker"

4. Cersei and the faith, Brienne and Pod at the Quiet Isle

5. Arya, meet Sam; Brienne killing Rorge, attacked by Biter, saved by Gendry

6. Theon's escape, Margaery's trial, Cersei taken prisoner, Sam + Gilly

7. "Walk of Shame", Dany's wedding, Sam in Oldtown

8. Wildling's arrive at the Wall, "Daznak's Pit"

9. "The Dragontamer" (death of Quentyn, escape of dragons), Battle of Griffin's Roost, Barristan vs. Khrazz

10. "Daggers in the Dark", ADWD epilogue, ends with a shot of a snowy KL when we realize Winter has Come.

[Pwnyou]

I would prefer them to keep to the books, honestly. And I think one, streamlined season of ADWD and AFFC could be great, if they eliminate some of the more tedious storylines. Here's my prediction:

1. Jon beheading Janos, Euron sends Victarion on his mission, etc.

2. Bran meets Bloodraven, Stannis takes Deepwood Motte

3. Tyrion finds out about Aegon and Griff, "The Queenmaker"

4. Cersei and the faith, Brienne and Pod at the Quiet Isle

5. Arya, meet Sam; Brienne killing Rorge, attacked by Biter, saved by Gendry

6. Theon's escape, Margaery's trial, Cersei taken prisoner, Sam + Gilly

7. "Walk of Shame", Dany's wedding, Sam in Oldtown

8. Wildling's arrive at the Wall, "Daznak's Pit"

9. "The Dragontamer" (death of Quentyn, escape of dragons), Battle of Griffin's Roost, Barristan vs. Khrazz

10. "Daggers in the Dark", ADWD epilogue, ends with a shot of a snowy KL when we realize Winter has Come.

George RR Martin said that AFFC + ADWD will be 2-3 seasons.

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