[Book Spoilers]The "Episode 9" Moment of Season 4

[Reposado]

They don't have to, but they must be sticking with the same round about pattern every series for a reason, which is big moments in ep 4 and 9, so I

there's a lot of things they seemingly do with little reasoning behind

I've no idea what the final scene of S4E10 will be though.

my pick would be, dany takes off on drogon

[Timotheus]

Tyrion meets Illyrio on the other side of the sea, doesn't he? I don't see how they can put that in episode 10. The last scene of Tyrion of season 4 will probably be him taking off on a ship. I'm not sure when he will kill Tywin and Shae though.. I personally think that's more episode 10 material than episode 9 material.

[Reposado]

Tyrion meets Illyrio on the other side of the sea, doesn't he? I don't see how they can put that in episode 10. The last scene of Tyrion of season 4 will probably be him taking off on a ship. I'm not sure when he will kill Tywin and Shae though.. I personally think that's more episode 10 material than episode 9 material.

Illyrio could easily be on the ship that picks him up. not to much of a variation there

[Khal-a-bunga]

Illyrio could easily be on the ship that picks him up. not to much of a variation there

What sense would it make for him to be on that ship? It's not like Tyrion planned his escape.

[~No One~]

This should happen MUCH sooner. Waiting several episodes for Jaime to arrive in KL would break the willing suspension of disbelief, even if they are creative with chronology.

Sure, but it couldn't be earlier than episode 4 by my count. I'm fairly sure that the PW is episode 2. Jamie's not there for that. And then his first encounter upon returning to KL is with Cersei in the sept by Joffrey's dead body. If that happens in episode 3, then he meets his father in episode 4, I could see that too. But earlier isn't possible as there's a lot to fit in in season 4, without even pulling much from the next 2 novels.

[Reposado]

What sense would it make for him to be on that ship? It's not like Tyrion planned his escape.

hes been to kings landing before. he could be on this ship for a number of reasons

[YuvalTheVal]

I really think the only thing that can cause a big shock for episode 9 is emphasizing Littlefinger's twist. I mean, he reveals the main question from the first season, whodunnit to Jon Arryn. that's huge. I feel like in the book it's mentiond quiet briefly. If they can make the reveal more epic, it would be a good episode 9 moment (of course, the last scene would be him throwing Lysa out of the moon door).

[PatrickStormborn]

Killing Tywin is certainly episode 8 or 9 material (I think it could open episode 10, but I'm not sure how they could drag it out for that long if we assume that the Purple Wedding will be in episode 2 or 3). On the other hand, Littlefinger killing Lysa is certainly episode 10 material - probably penultimate scene material, followed by Bran meeting Bloodraven.

[Khal-a-bunga]

hes been to kings landing before. he could be on this ship for a number of reasons

Strikes me as a bit too convenient. Setting Tyrion up to meet Dany is more likely to be the beginning of his story line in season five. If season four ends like I think it will (with Tyrion strangling Tywin and Shae happening in the finale), then they'll leave Tyrion's whereabouts unknown until the premiere of the fifth season. I think that, for the most part, the endings for the major characters in the show will remain consistent with where A Storm of Swords ended. Certain characters are more problematic than others in this regard (Bran, in particular), but D&D have shown themselves to be pretty consistent in how they plot out the story lines of the main characters of the show (Arya, Dany, Jon, and Tyrion), so using their narrative arcs as a basis seems to be the best way to go.

Killing Tywin is certainly episode 8 or 9 material (I think it could open episode 10, but I'm not sure how they could drag it out for that long if we assume that the Purple Wedding will be in episode 2 or 3). On the other hand, Littlefinger killing Lysa is certainly episode 10 material - probably penultimate scene material, followed by Bran meeting Bloodraven.

Agree with this with regards to the scene at the Eyrie. That's definitely a penultimate moment for next season. I wonder about Bran meeting Bloodraven, though, because there's the matter of what to do with Lady Stoneheart. I wouldn't necessarily mind that moment not ending season four, and ending it with Bran meeting Bloodraven. But then where does the moment with UnCat go? And what will Bran do in season five?

I also think that Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae is a finale moment, as well. I think episode nine will focus quite a bit of the trial of Tyrion (they'll have Shae testify against him this episode), and will also have the duel between Oberyn & The Mountain. At this point, the audience expects something major to happen in the penultimate episode, followed by a relatively calm finale that primarily wraps things up while setting the table for next season. That duel fits the bill, as it has the simultaneous effect of condemning Tyrion to death, which will be a huge deal for the non-reader audience. Not to mention the fact that the Red Viper is sure to play a bigger part in the show than he did in the books, so his death (as well as the death of The Mountain - I don't think he's coming back in the show) will have a huge impact on the audience, as well. But it will all be expected, to a certain degree, because the ninth episode has been built up so much over the course of these last three seasons.

That allows the finale to come out and really surprise the audience (non-readers) with a number of huge deaths, and a re-contextualization of the entire series with the reveal that Littlefinger was behind the death of Jon Arryn. It also leaves what I view to be the four main characters in similar states:

- Jon has been elected the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

- Dany chooses to stay and learn how to rule in Mereen.

- Tyrion is running away from his old life.

- Arya is journeying towards a new life.

There's a nice symmetry between these characters and these situations that would work well to cap off what's essentially the end of the first segment of the story for this series as a whole. It leaves mystery as to where some characters are heading next, while firmly planting some characters in positions of leadership.

[Mr Fixit]

- Dany chooses to stay and learn how to rule in Mereen.

I just can't see this happening; it would be an abomination of storytelling. Dany has only TWO chapters left in ASOS. No matter what kind of filler scenes you throw in, there's no material for a season-long arc. I'd like to see the show dive headlong into ADWD where Dany is concerned.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Killing Tywin is certainly episode 8 or 9 material (I think it could open episode 10, but I'm not sure how they could drag it out for that long if we assume that the Purple Wedding will be in episode 2 or 3). On the other hand, Littlefinger killing Lysa is certainly episode 10 material - probably penultimate scene material, followed by Bran meeting Bloodraven.

You’ve identified the main problem with all these prognostications. They all figure that there have to be eleven more episodes between the Red Wedding and the end of the Storm material. There don’t, and there probably should not be. We know that Joffery bites in Martin’s Episode 2. The idea of Tyrion sitting around in jail for 7 more episodes is really hard to take. Too much bread, not enough butter.

And anyway, the showrunners have said that they will be showing character plot arcs from the whole Song of Ice and Fire, not just some one-to-one, or even here a one-to-two, book-to-season mapping. There is just no way to stretch the remaining Storm material into an entire TV season that works equally well for all the major characters they have to show.

Bran and Dany are just two of them; there are other problems, too. They will have to pull material from Feast and Dance to make this all add up sensibly for all the characters involved.

[Reposado]

Strikes me as a bit too convenient. Setting Tyrion up to meet Dany is more likely to be the beginning of his story line in season five. If season four ends like I think it will (with Tyrion strangling Tywin and Shae happening in the finale), then they'll leave Tyrion's whereabouts unknown until the premiere of the fifth season. I think that, for the most part, the endings for the major characters in the show will remain consistent with where A Storm of Swords ended. Certain characters are more problematic than others in this regard (Bran, in particular), but D&D have shown themselves to be pretty consistent in how they plot out the story lines of the main characters of the show (Arya, Dany, Jon, and Tyrion), so using their narrative arcs as a basis seems to be the best way to go.

sure. its probably not how i would do it. but he could be there

You’ve identified the main problem with all these prognostications. They all figure that there have to be eleven more episodes between the Red Wedding and the end of the Storm material. There don’t, and there probably should not be. We know that Joffery bites in Martin’s Episode 2. The idea of Tyrion sitting around in jail for 7 more episodes is really hard to take. Too much bread, not enough butter.

And anyway, the showrunners have said that they will be showing character plot arcs from the whole Song of Ice and Fire, not just some one-to-one, or even here a one-to-two, book-to-season mapping. There is just no way to stretch the remaining Storm material into an entire TV season that works equally well for all the major characters they have to show.

Bran and Dany are just two of them; there are other problems, too. They will have to pull material from Feast and Dance to make this all add up sensibly for all the characters involved.

sure. but you dont do all the asos stuff and then move on. you mix it in. stuff from affc begins in episode 1 next season.

but the plot lines from asos still take the whole season.

season 4 should end with

jon being named LC

tyrion killing tywin and escaping

the kingsmoot

the myrcella kidnapping attempt

the lords declarant

arya burying needle

brienne at the mummers ford(ideally killing locke)

bran arriving at the cof

and i think, dany getting on drogon in the pit

fulfill those arcs and you easily can have the best season yet,

[YouSnowNothing]

I have no idea why people ever worry about Tyrion being imprisoned for the majority of the season. It's not like he's just sitting there. He shares some wonderful scenes in his cell - with Kevan, with Jaime, with Oberyn, and more Cersei, Bronn, Tywin, etc. can always be added). And his trial scenes are brilliant - his confession of being "guilty of being a dwarf" is one of the most emotional moments of the series, and Peter Dinklage will absolutely knock it out of the park. If there's one thing I'm excited about in S4, it's Tyrion's arc.

But anyway, Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae is definitely episode 9 material. It's a huge, gamechanging event, and one that will need be thankful for episode 10 to follow up with all the reactions and immediate effects (Cersei taking control, Tyrion being sent to Dany). It wraps up the arc of many characters and sets them up nicely for next season.

A rough idea for season 4:

Episode 1/2: Setting-up, introduction of Mace and Martells, re-introduction of Iron Islands and the death of Balon

Episode 3: Purple Wedding

Episode 4: Davos giving Stannis the NW letter; Battle of Castle Black and Ygritte's death

Episode 5/6: Tyrion's trial, looking for a champion, Shae's testimony, Oberyn's promise to champion Tyrion at episode 6's end

Episode 7: Battle at the Wall, Stannis' arrival

Episode 8: Oberyn/Mountain duel, Stannis offers Winterfell to Jon

Episode 9: Tyrion's escape and murders

Episode 10: Jon's election to LC, Only Cat, and various wrapping-up/setting-up next season. (Final scene: LF pushes Lysa out the moon door, we cut to a wide shot of the Eyrie, Lysa's body falling down the mountain as we pan out, and down over the walls of Sansa's snow Winterfell).

^I've mainly just talked about the Wall and KL storylines... they are the arcs with the most material left in ASOS, and the one's I'm most certain about where they will end up. Dany, Arya, Bran, the Iron Islands and even Brienne are more up in the air, the producers could do many different things with them.

[Logodnica]

Tywin's death will be the HUGE

[JonDunn]

There's almost no way to mess up Tyrion's arc in season 4. The audience loves Dinklage and the writers love writing scenes for him. It's going to be fantastic, like the Jamie arc in season 3.

[Red Raven]

Ep 1: Meet the Martells

Ep 3 or 4: Purple Wedding (I think doing this episode 2 is too soon)

Ep 9: Tyrion kills Tywin

Ep 10: Littlefinger sends Lysa for a flyer, Jon elected LC.

The_Void's outline looks pretty good to me.

[juanml82]

If Martin is writing episode 2, what else could he be writing apart from the PW? The First Battle of Castle Black and one last 'you know nothing, Jon Snow'?

I don't think he's writing an episode merely setting up characters. And it would come as a surprise so early in the season.

[ebevan91]

If Martin is writing episode 2, what else could he be writing apart from the PW? The First Battle of Castle Black and one last 'you know nothing, Jon Snow'?

I don't think he's writing an episode merely setting up characters. And it would come as a surprise so early in the season.

Since GRRM already wrote a big battle episode (Blackwater), I don't think he'd do it again (until later on maybe).

[Ser Luke.]

This is when I think all the "big" stuff will occur.

EPISODE TWO: Joffrey's Wedding

EPISODE SIX: The Kingsmoot---Arya/Sandor at the Inn

EPISODE SEVEN: The Taking of Meereen

EPISODE EIGHT: Gregor vs. Oberyn

EPISODE NINE: Stannis! Stannis! Stannis!---Bran meets Bloodraven

EPISODE TEN: Tyrion killing Tywin---Baelish killing Lysa---Uncat killing Merrett

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

my pick would be tyrion escaping and killing tywin/sahe

It will be this, then with ep 10 focusing on the wall, Dany taking Meereen, and "Only Cat"