[Book Spoilers]The "Episode 9" Moment of Season 4

[Garlan Marius]

I firmly expect the ADwD material to be finished by the end of Season 5. Compelling story arcs on-screen are more important than staying a step behind the author.

[~No One~]

I firmly expect the ADwD material to be finished by the end of Season 5. Compelling story arcs on-screen are more important than staying a step behind the author.

A+, man!

God, I hope D+D think the same way.

[JonDunn]

Yeah I've always doubted that they would combine the books into one season but the more I think about it, the number 1 priority has to be making a fantastic show and that's the best way to do it.

I worry that the seasons being made without books and just an outline will be much weaker though, they will have to make up the details themselves. Sucks.

[Fightbringer]

PW is pretty much already confirmed for episode 2 of next season i think (seeing as GRRM's writing the episode) at any rate, it will probably be earlier on in the season, so they can resolve the whole trial by combat then the shae and tywin thing after that.

Same with Battle of Castle Black, that will be earlier on in the season to free up time at the end for the offer, and then the LC election.

In the best possible way, early next season may be better than late (or in any case just as good)

I think season 4 episode 9 will be far less focused on a single event than the last 3 seasons, there will be lots of awesome moments. That said 'the moment' will be Oberyn vs The Mountain Duel. But i think they should also toss in the 'mercy' scene with the hound and arya if there still together at that point, and Stannis making Jon the offer.

Then in episode 10, you can have the Shae and Tywin scenes, Jon getting selected LC, the moon door scene, and the kingsmoot

[Shadow on the Wall]

Tyrion kills Tywin for sure!

Season 5: Either Battle for Meereen or Battle for Winterfell. They need a climax to the season.

[Mordos_Kull]

The Episode 9 pattern seems to be:

1.) Traumatic Stark Death - Ned

2.) Epic Battle - Blackwater

3.) Traumatic Stark Death - Robb/Cat

So could have:

4.) Epic Battle - The Wall

5.) Traumatic Stark Death?

6.) Epic Battle - Battle of Winterfell/Mereen?

[King Zee]

I'm sticking with this timeline personally.

E1- Meet the red Viper

E2 - Red Viper chats with Tyrion, gets offered Cersei

E3-- Purple Wedding

E4 -Tyrion awaiting trial

E5 - Trial Pt 1 - KIngguard and Pycelle testify

E6 - Trial Part II - Varys and Cersei Testify

E7 -Trial Part III Shae testifies, Tyrion requests trial by combat

E8 -Red Viper vs Mountain

E9 - Tyrion's execution / escape. (I think they'll try and fakeout viewers into thinking the big event is Tyrion getting beheaded like Ned)

E10 - Pentos.

[AegonSnow]

Battle at the Wall paired with the Kingsmoot.

Would love to see more of Rickon

[The Pain Yak]

Episode 9 = Blackwater-style focused episode on the Siege of the Wall.

Episode 10 = Tyrion escapes and murder Tywin/Shae, we end the season on Sansa's snow castle, Lysa's hysterical confession about how Littlefinger was responsible for everything, and 'Only Cat'.

I'd put money on it.

[JonDunn]

Battle at the Wall paired with the Kingsmoot.

Would love to see more of Rickon

I feel like Kingsmoot will be earlier than the Wall.

[JonDunn]

Episode 9 = Blackwater-style focused episode on the Siege of the Wall.

Episode 10 = Tyrion escapes and murder Tywin/Shae, we end the season on Sansa's snow castle, Lysa's hysterical confession about how Littlefinger was responsible for everything, and 'Only Cat'.

I'd put money on it.

Fantastic episode 9/10 combo, better than any final 2 episodes from the first 3 seasons IMO

[The Anti-Targ]

Stannis routing the Wildlings in E9. Jon elected LC in E10.

E9 has traditionally been a significant loss for the "good" guys. It to some people its debateable with Blackwater as to who the good guys are, but looking at things objectively the stern by-the book Brother of the dead king is the good guy in comparison to the saddistic bastard incest son of the Queen and her brother.

So the loss for the good guys in E9 is really Oberyn losing the dual to Gregor. E10 is Tyrion escaping. I think it would be sad for Jack Gleeson to be only in one or 2 episodes of S4, so I'm thinking PW in E4.

[metr0man]

I firmly expect the ADwD material to be finished by the end of Season 5. Compelling story arcs on-screen are more important than staying a step behind the author.

Exactly. I expect whatever the big moment of the early TWoW battles are will probably be the climax of S5. I hope it's Stannis crushing the "Bastard" in the snow.

[7V3N]

Here is how I think they will do the episodes--I chose reverse order since (until the finale) we will not know exactly how the season will start, but can get a pretty good idea where the season will end. I believe they will get a little bit into ADWD/AFFC content before the season's end. Before that, here is what I left out/was unsure of because they have a lot of freedom with how/when these stories can unfold:

• I leave Dany out because it really depends on how much they end her story in season 3. They could be combining Yunkai and Meereen. Basically, I think her season will be about the growth of the dragons and Dany learning to rule.
  
• I also think they will have Bran pop-up sort of randomly just to remind us about his plot. His role is very much just a travel-log for this season (which actually happens in ADWD).
  
• Arya, like Bran, will be mostly travel. I have the feeling they may combine some of the theme of Brienne's AFFC story to Arya--the destruction of the war that has impacted the commonfolk. I think her story will end with her saying 'valar morghulis'.
  
• Much of the Cersei vs. Margaery will continue, and begin to take form into actions rather than small passive-aggressive talks.
  
• Jaime's separation from Cersei will be a theme for him in this season, as well as him stepping up to be a responsible Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. They will probably begin his training with whomever they replace Ilyn Payne with (it does not matter that much). This is also dependent on where he and Brienne are left in season 3's finale (it appears that he has made it back to King's Landing from the preview). We will get him handing over Oathkeeper to Brienne mid-late season, I believe, as well as the departure of fake-Arya.
  
• A continuous theme of Tyrion will be his loss of power and the demeaning of his pride and value.
  
• Sansa's story will be a transitioning one--from King's Landing controlled by the Lannisters, to the Vale having some more freedom while being a pawn of Littlefinger.
  

In episode 10 (finale) we get something of Tyrion's state--something that looks like a broken man, and makes viewers sort of pity him. I think the best way to do this is having him "on a ship to the East" without us knowing what his future holds. Lord Manderly shows where his loyalty truly lies, and it is revealed that Davos was not actually killed, but that it was for show. Sam, Gilly, Aemon, and the baby leave Castle Black for Eastwatch, where they will leave by ship. They may use the opportunity to have Jon and Mel meet atop the Wall. This will also be a wrap-up/recap for all of the characters' stories.

I imagine Tyrion's escape will be episode 9. This includes the murder of Tywin and Shae, as well as Tyrion's lie to Jaime. We would be left with Davos' "death". We will also get Jon ordering Sam to go to the Citadel and become a maester. I think Jon may be more explicit about the baby-switch.

I think we will also have episode 8 of Tyrion in the dungeon awaiting death/Night's Watch. Here we will also have the burning of "Mance". We also get Davos' meeting with Lord Manderly.

That means the duel will be episode 7. Also, they could have some of the politics of the Night's Watch, with Stannis imposing and conflicts between the black brothers and Stannis' men. Possibly the meeting where Aemon and Melisandre briefly (though I think more extensively in the show) discuss how Stannis fits the prophecy/Lightbringer.

Episode 6 is probably where we get cliffhanger of Oberyn saying he will be Tyrion's champion. Possibly Jon being sworn in, and some key discussions with Maester Aemon, Sam, and Bowen Marsh. This episode will probably have Davos arrive at White Harbor.

This could be put in episode 6, but I think they will want more time devoted to this, given the importance to Tyrion's character--Episode 5 is Tyrion's trial, with key moments being Shae's betrayal and Bronn selling out (I don't say betrayal because Bronn and Tyrion knew all along Bronn was only loyal to his best option, which in this case was getting a marriage that puts him in a position that he could never dream of getting. We know in his heart he still liked Tyrion ((the naming of Lollys' child)) ). I think this would also be Jon Snow being elected Lord Commander.

That puts the Purple Wedding at episode 4. Considering the significance of the minor events within the wedding (Sansa's hairnet, Tyrion's embarrassment that contributes to his judgment, Queen of Thorns, etc.) I think this will occupy the majority of its episode. We also get Sansa's escape with Littlefinger. Also, we will probably get a bit about electing a new Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Maybe even Stannis' proposition to free him from his vows and name him Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and Sam's return to the Wall.

3 gives us Stannis' rescue. Though I could see this combined with the battle at the Wall as a whole, I think it would be more dramatic to allow us to leave an episode believing the Night's Watch has little hope, and the wildlings may be able to win. We will also see Slynt return with Thorne, and (rather than arresting Jon) send him to Mance to do the assassination to "prove his loyalty." I also think this is when Prince Oberyn will be introduced at King's Landing.

2 is the Battle for the Wall. I imagine this will take up most of the episode. There will be talks of the upcoming wedding and Prince Oberyn (plus a lot of info/rumors about the Red Viper) on his way to attend the wedding/take his seat on the small council.

1 we possibly have Prince Doran's introduction, depending on how/when they want to incorporate him, as well as reminders of where major characters are at. Depending on season 3's finale, this could also be Bran's passing through the Black Gate and meeting Coldhands. Davos talks to Stannis about earning his right to be King by serving his realm.

Let me know what you think.

[JonDunn]

Exactly. I expect whatever the big moment of the early TWoW battles are will probably be the climax of S5. I hope it's Stannis crushing the "Bastard" in the snow.

I know the show is going to make The Battle for the Wall a massive episode, bigger than Blackwater. We obviously haven't read about the Battle for Winterfell yet but with ANOTHER battle in the snow I wonder if they will bother showing it.

Maybe it will be different enough.

[AegonSnow]

Dorne - The Red Viper goes to King's Landing

Purple Wedding

Sansa's escape

Sansa's storyline at the Vale

Arya's storyline -Sailing to Braavos

Bran storyline - The Nightfort

Battle at the Wall - Ygritte dies

Tyrion's Trial & Escape - Tywin Dies

Events at Dorne - The Queenmaker/Kingsmoot

[JonDunn]

Dorne - The Red Viper goes to King's Landing

Purple Wedding

Sansa's escape

Sansa's storyline at the Vale

Arya's storyline -Sailing to Braavos

Bran storyline - The Nightfort

Battle at the Wall - Ygritte dies

Tyrion's Trial & Escape - Tywin Dies

Events at Dorne - The Queenmaker/Kingsmoot

what is this?

[victim]

I know the show is going to make The Battle for the Wall a massive episode, bigger than Blackwater. We obviously haven't read about the Battle for Winterfell yet but with ANOTHER battle in the snow I wonder if they will bother showing it.

Maybe it will be different enough.

But you don't know that. All D&D said is there was a larger, more expensive battle in Season 4, yet they never said it was going to take place over a single episode like Blackwater did. If they truly believe it is a larger battle, and Blackwater took an entire episode, then shouldn't the Battle for the Wall take even longer? The differences between the two are palpable, because Blackwater was an assault, while this one is a siege consisting of many assaults. Of course this is just my opinion, but I think if they cram it all in to one episode it would feel rushed.

[AegonSnow]

what is this?

A list of events I could/want to see in season 4.

basically...

Purple Wedding up to The Queenmaker

I think a nice finale would be "somebody talked. somebody always talks"

including the 2 battles at the wall, stannis' rout of the wildlings, the kingsmoot

+ maybe a bit of Arya's storyline

+ a bit of Sansa at the Vale

[AegonSnow]

also would LOVE to see some of Rickon's story